Canadian Handgunners

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'Course we have Chapters here...and Indigo too (it's Canadian Barnes and noble, yankees). That's what i was talking about, hehehe...where happy granola-bar types like me can get their paws on glossies full of weaponry.

Granted, the laws in place to control gun ownership are pretty much redundant, but from a purely theoretical standpoint, wouldn't you, as a gun owner, feel safer if EVERY single gun in your country could be tracked to its owner?

I mean, i read all the time about gun awareness, and treating every weapon as though it's loaded, etc.etc. You would think that *ideally*, gun control is a measure of protection, just like concealed carry.
 
Mike, I wasn't hitten on guys like you, only the Mounties. Besides...don't want nickle plated frame...want blued. So, how about it Renfrew or Dudley Do Right, got any big frames you want to sell or trade? I'm earnestly serious. Private owners disregard.

Jim
 
I believe that it is possible for you to bring your firearms with you...being a Canadian by birth will certainly help. Why don't you try calling the Canadian Firearms Centre at 1-800-731-4000 and ask what's required? These folks are OK...no reason to worry about talking to them. <s>
Mike/BC
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedCrosse:
Hello Mike,

I am a dual citizen (born in Canada and have us citizenship through my mother, who is a us citizen), living in VA with a conceal permit. I am considering moving to Canada in the next few years, and wonder about bringing my firearms to live on a farm. Any thoughts on this? [/quote]



[This message has been edited by Mike Davies (edited June 14, 2000).]
 
Tom: Nobody trusts the government here....trust me on that one.
Mike/BC
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom B:
Sigh....I guess we just don't trust our government as much as you Canadians do.[/quote]
 
I am shocked by the contents of this thread. It appears to me that Mike Davies and others are looking on the firearm (handgun, in particular) situation in Canada as acceptable. I did not like the situation in Canada for the 28 years I lived there, but I am even more opposed to the situation there after having lived in the US in a CCW state for the last 2 years.
The laws in Canada regarding handgun ownership are completely ridiculous. The laws currently in force regarding registration (with yearly renewal fees) of any and ALL firearms will make things much worse.
A few years ago, there used to be about 10 stores in Calgary where you could go shopping for a handgun. Now there is maybe one or two. Why? With all the laws, paperwork and hassle involved, people just can't be bothered and therefore the stores don't bother carrying them anymore.
The ONLY reason (as the gov't sees it) for a person to own a handgun is for recreational target shooting. Following is a brief description of the process involved to purchase a handgun in Canada:
1) take a course where you spend several hours receiving instruction and training on firearm handling & safety (this part is actually a good idea) and then finally take a test. Upon passing the course/test, you get a piece of paper which you then use to obtain an FAC (firearms acquisition certificate). This FAC is mandatory for ANY firearms purchase (not just handguns).
2) if you are lucky, you actually find a store where you can purchase a handgun.
3) show your FAC, pay your money and get the paperwork from the store showing that you have purchased a handgun. (don't even begin to think that you can take the gun with you at this point... that is still several weeks away)
4) take the paperwork to the police station and get them to give you a piece of paper which allows you to transport the gun from the store to the police station. (this may have changed, the store may have to deliver the gun to the police)
5) the police now take a week or two to do a background check on the gun to make sure of its origin (not stolen, used in a crime, etc)
6) at some point before you take the handgun home, you must become a member of a shooting range with handgun facilities. (Remember, your only reason to own this handgun is to target shoot at this range. The gov't has determined that you definately do not need it for personal/family protection while at home, in the backcountry, etc)
7) oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the handgun that you picked to purchase MUST have a barrel length of just over 4 inches. The gov't has determined that any barrel shorter than this makes the gun too dangerous and easy to conceal. (just as a coincidence I'm sure, this just happens to ban over 50% of all handguns produced throughout the world... I'm SURE that barrel length was a number just picked out of a hat by chance. How unlucky can you get, just .3 inches less and they wouldn't have banned all the mid-sized Glocks, Sigs, HK's, etc, etc!)
8) once the police have done their background check, you can finally go to pick up your handgun. They will issue you a 'permit to transport' which is a paper which states that you can transport the gun directly from your home to the range which you are a member of. While transporting the gun from your home to the range, you must take the most direct route and the gun must be under double lock (ie: trigger lock installed and the gun locked in a case)
If for some reason, you want to go shooting somewhere else, you must get a special transport permit ahead of time for that occasion from the police station.

As can be seen from above, the gov't is pretty much discouraging handgun ownership with all the hassle, restrictions and paperwork.
Compare the above with living in a state with CCW where you can easily purchase a handgun in one day as a resposible CCW holder.

Just another tidbit...
According to the laws in Canada, if you chamber a round in your handgun in the confines of your own home, you have committed a crime! (Remember the gov't has determined that the only reason for you to chamber a round would be while you are at the range doing some target shooting)
Some people may not think this is a big deal. I think it is. How am I supposed to make safe, reliable ammunition as a reloader unless I can cycle the rounds through the firearm to ensure that they have been assembled correctly. (ie: seat length of bullet, brass sizing, etc)

The current Canadian gun laws are outlandish. If nothing is done, Canadians will soon lose the right to own firearms. Don't think it won't happen... all the little steps that the gov't is taking are slowly leading to this.
Take a stand now, while you still have some chance to make a difference. Join gun clubs, write letters to local, provincial, and federal political leaders.
Vote, and vote wisely.

Reg,
(a very concerned fellow Canadian)

[This message has been edited by Reg (edited June 15, 2000).]
 
I posted this on another board with the topic "Canadian Gunowners May Not Comply W/licensing-registration." I am sorry to say it but I am sure my Canadian cousins will say: "Oh, well." and comply with the law. Socialism is a way of life in Canada. When I was a youth Canada was similar to the United States except for the monarchy and the tension with the French/Canadien faction. It sure has changed. My relatives served in the Canadian Forces and worked for the Canadian Air Force. Now there is no Army, Navy, and only an Air Farce. Regards, Richard.
 
Mike Davies,

Dam you.... I was going to phone gunner on Saturday and see if he still had that mod 27 left.

I live in Northern BC, if you have ICQ add me. it is good to see another Canadian here, and your much more literate then me on the USA/Canada Gun Rights Battle.... I am getting roasted at glocktalk about it. :)

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PROUD TO BE CANADIAN
 
Reg...

A few Inaccuracies with your Claims,

1) There is no Yearly Registration Fees, $25 per firearm for life.

2) There are lots of Gun Stores that Carry an Inventory of Handguns, I can Think of several in the Vancouver/Victoria Area.

3)FAC is no Longer Valid, Called a Firearms License Now.

4)I can walk into a store and Purchase a Handgun and take it home the Same Day now.... ubder the OLD law it would be a Long Wait.

I suggest you check the Goverments Web Page for Up to Date Canadian Gun Laws.... they have changed 100%, The RCMP has Nothing to do with Handguns in Canada anymore and will send you out the door before they answer any questions pertaining to firearms.

here is the page you should read for the new regulations; http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/

Side note.... when I was Working as a surveyor in the wilderness of Canada I had a Permit to pack a Ruger .44 Mag single action on a belt Holster, imagine the look that gets when you step out of your truck in Canada.

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PROUD TO BE CANADIAN
 
Reg: You're a bit out of date, old son..<g>.
"Westy's" reply is quite accurate...I have purchased a handgun PRIVATELY and been on my way home with it within an hour...I have purchased a handgun and had it courier'd to me overnight..and gone shooting LEGALLY with it as soon as I have received it.
I HATE the firearms laws here in Canada. So does everyone. As long as we have our present government, all the protesting in the world will not change what they wish to do. I and many others have joined new organizations that have sprung up to fight this oppressive Bill C-68. If anything, it is my generation (and probably yours..) that were sleeping at the switch while the government and the anti-gunners were burning the midnight oil to take our guns away...
But don't write us off yet, folks...<gg>
Mike/BC
 
Heh, heh...I knew there HAD to be at least one more BC'er out there..
The m27 has found a good home here..<g>I've always wanted a S&W revolver, particularly an Nframe. Gunnar was really great to deal with..I was up in PG shooting at an IPSC qualifier where his wife Jean was Match Director a couple of weeks ago.
I don't have ICQ, but my email address is in my profile, I think..
Regards, Mike (also proud to be a Canadian!) <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Westicle:
Mike Davies,

Dam you.... I was going to phone gunner on Saturday and see if he still had that mod 27 left.

I live in Northern BC, if you have ICQ add me. it is good to see another Canadian here, and your much more literate then me on the USA/Canada Gun Rights Battle.... I am getting roasted at glocktalk about it. :)

[/quote]
 
Straydog,

I would NOT feel safer if every gun could be tracked to it's owner. What purpose would that serve and how would that make anyone safer?

The only 'benefit' to responsible gun owners are what amounts to a special tax and being on a list for the sort of confiscations that have already taken place in the US.

The majority of guns used in crimes would either not be registered for tracking as they are owned by criminals who, by definition, would not register or be stolen.

My poor, upright, Christian aunt received a visit one dark night from two members of the local sheriff's department. Seems her car license was stolen and used in a crime. Where did she benefit? I rather imagine she nearly had a heart attack.

I DO think it would be a good idea for all gun owners to be REQUIRED to be a member of the NRA and take NRA safety courses. ;D
 
Guy: I totally agree with your comments regarding "people feeling safer knowing every gun could be traced to its original owner'..I just can't make the connection with that bit of fractured logic. We all know that criminals do not register their guns. The police in Canada going to be forced into the ludicrous position of keeping track of good guys with guns, and no time to keep tabs on the bad guys with guns...
Mike/BC
 
I just don't see how this "trace a gun to its owner" crap makes the owner safe at all.

What a load of crap - what ARE they supposed to do with registration list? Is someone going to shoot someone, then throw down the gun as evidence. Big deal, they then go harass the last "registered" owner (who says it was stolen whether it was or not).

That some "perp" would throw away a perfectly good gun is ludicrous. Even if he's caught with it after committing a crime, hello - you have the criminal for committing the crime, who gives a d*** who you "trace" the gun to.


Battler.
 
So what DOES act as a sufficient measure to prevent criminals from getting guns? (short of perforating them with small calibre from your Chief's Special as you catch them going through your gun cabinet) Increased penalties, for one...the other option is to make guns unavailable.

As far as i can tell, there aren't a lot of gun magazines for sale because only a small percentage of Canadians have any interest in guns. Similarly, there aren't a lot of crimes committed in this country with firearms, because there aren't any around to steal.

There are probably more firearms-related accidents in US homes resulting in the deaths of family members than there are shootings in Canada. True, it's the responsibility of the gun owner to maintain safety, i realize that this is a poor reason to prevent people from owning guns. In fact, it's not really a reason at all. Still, no one out there can contest the fact that there are many, many, people in the world who own a firearm but don't know how own it safely. If there is a point to this, it's that safety courses required by law to obtain guns are nowhere near adequate (something i'm sure not many people would debate. One can't learn 'enough' about gun safety; just because you use a gun to protect lives doesn't mean that is wasn't designed to kill people.)

I don't think for a second that registration of firearms will deter someone who is absolutely determined to get a gun for the purposes of commiting a crime from doing so in Canada, or anywhere else for that matter. That doesn't mean that the gun community should make it easier for them to do so...

Thinkn about what would happen if NO records were kept of guns...then the next time you piss off some psycho on the road, he can draw his weapon and fire with impunity, because who's going to know who owns the gun? Forensics and ballistic analysis will be pointless, really...

Keeping records of guns may not stop criminals from getting them; however, it DOES stop legitimate owners from joining their ranks.

-Stray (who does wish that laws were different in this country. Guns should be legal to carry, and HARDER to obtain. Why is the smart gun a stupid idea again???)

[This message has been edited by StrayDog (edited June 16, 2000).]
 
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StrayDog,

Goodjob.... well written and to the point. Canadian Gun Laws are not the end all be all, but they are what we have to live with.
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In response to Stray Dog, I always love it how Canadians, desperate to convince themselves that they don't live in an opressive socialist state, become apologists for the government like good little citizens. Your argument about people pulling out guns because someone cut them off is the typical argument I hear from Canadians (and American anti-gunners)...its getting old already. Here in TX, there are guns EVERYWHERE..and very little, if any, records are kept, particularily when firearms have been circulated through the private market. Yet people are NOT shooting eachother on a daily basis because of traffic incidents as you suggest should be the case. I find it highly insulting that you would suggest that the absence of paperwork will suddenly abolish all the moral teachings of my youth, and turn me into a hot-tempered killer. Thats nuts and nothing but propaganda you've been fed by CTV, Macleans magazine etc. In fact, I sent your post to one of my Canadian friends because we had a debate last week over this and he brang up the EXACT same arguments as you did, almost word for word.I've also read your arguments in a few editions of Macleans magazine which the Library here has a subscription to--funny coincidence I suppose. Anyway, I used your post to illustrate my point that the indoctrination of Canadians, is almost complete.
Also, your statement that guns are not available in Canada is proposterous. Where do you live? Vancouver? Toronto? Montreal? Must be one of those anti-gun, weak-kneed liberal havens because I know when I lived in Edmonton and Calgary, there were plenty of guns around in folk's basements.
The reality is that the Canadian government is well aware that the people are becoming weary of high unemployment, high taxes, poor medical care, and lack of opportunity. Guns in peoples hands in the current sociopolitical climate in Canada, is a threat to the Liberal party who would erect Cretien as King if they had their way.
 
Straydog,

Registration does nothing to prevent anyone from obtaining a gun; it does not even make it more difficult. It simply lists those who do so legally. It does nothing to trace a gun to a criminal unless they firstly decide to register and secondly decide to leave it laying about.

Registration does NOTHING to make it more difficult for your psycho to obtain a gun. It does NOTHING to make it easier to identify the gun or the individual unless the psycho is also crazy enough to turn the crime weapon over to the police. Duh.

Nor does registration do anything to cause individuals to be more responsible in preventing accidents.

Narrow selections of crime reports can be taken from any number of countries to support or deny a relationship between gun ownership and crime. Some countries with less guns have a higher crime rate than the US. Are they to be congratulated because their murder, rape and robbery is supported by use of knives or clubs rather than guns?

A total ban on guns would mean we would need to begin going to the local high school campus to get guns. That is where people currently obtain their banned drugs...

In short, registration does little or nothing to assist in prevention of crime or prevention of accidents. There is no purpose in saddling responsible people with nonfunctional laws.

You ask about the "smart gun". Again, you need to ask whether there is a real cause and effect for any of these solutions. What is the "smart" gun supposed to accomplish? Prevent accidents? Stop individuals other than the owner from using the gun?

The "smart" gun might temporarily prevent a small child from firing a gun. It doesn't keep them from using it as a hammer, etc.

In the case of an older child, say 12 years of age, or a criminal the "smart" gun would be no barrier. Contrary to locking the gun up, the older child or criminal would realize that the gun is convenient carrying size, tote it off and disable the "smart" mechanism at leisure. Any "smart" mechanism currently being touted can be destroyed and bypassed.

Nor do I think that childless homes should be required to deal with this nonsense and bear the burden of the lack of responsibility of others. Persoanlly, I prefer to keep everything locked up as that provides more complete and sensible control.


[This message has been edited by Guy B. Meredith (edited June 16, 2000).]
 
Guy B. Merideth

Registration may not keep guns out of the hands of Wacko's..... BUT the Canadian Background Check when you apply to get a Firearms License will. Our Background Check is just as Hard if not Harder then most of your States CCW Background. your employer and any ex-girlfriends/Wives are telephoned and advised that you have applied for a Firearms License... so at any time during the application process the License can be denied, after denial you take it to court and let the courts decide if you need a Firearms License (another thing similiar to a USA Denial of CCW)

Canadian Gunlaw is not just One thing... it is a multitude of things that back each other UP.... Granted if the Wacko Owned firearms before the gun law went into effect then he will still have them, what the Firearms License and Registration stop are people from buying new or used firearms without a pre Approved Background Check done when they apply for thier Firearms License.

Registration in and of itself solves very Little of Gun Crime, but without registration where is the control and acountability of where and when each firearms was imported/Bought/resold ?!?

Registration for Handguns has been a part of Canadian Law for 70 YEARS, no guns have been Confiscated in Canada, for example.... say if you owned a Walter PPK, that gun is Prohibited in Canada because of Barrel Lenght and .380 Caliber. But if you owned one before the prohibition went into effect, you will still own it today under a grandfather Clause. Granted you will only be able to buy and sell prohibited weapons from other "grandfathered" owners but the gun was never siezed and you never lost any money in fact the price probably went up a bit because of the mystique collectors value.

GUN CONFISCATION is NOT HAPPENING in CANADA after 70 years, so why should it happen in the states if they enact a National Gun Registry ?!?

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PROUD TO BE CANADIAN
 
One other thing... SMART GUN is a Bullshyt thing, there are no smart guns only smart people.

Canadians aren't pushing for the "smart" gun, American President/Congress is, hell our military is still armed with the Browning Highpower.... Single Action. not a pussy Double Action Gurls gun (M9 Berreta).

( I say pussy Dbl Action... but I still love my Glocks, its ok Gurls I was'nt talking about you)

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PROUD TO BE CANADIAN
 
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