Can you shoot a S&W 38 in a 38 Special gun?
- Thread starter markofkane
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
While running a .38 S&W into a .38 Special CFC die will squeeze down the bullet and most of the case, it will not touch the case right in front of the rim, the depth of the shell holder and radius of the case mouth leave a little unsized. But hey, if it works for him, it works. Seems like a fine example of Bubbasmithing unless the Covid Zombies are real bad in his neighborhood.
Wow this is an old thread but anyway, for what it is worth.
The 38 S&W is obviously a slightly fatter cartridge than the 38 Special. The bullet diameter is also 0.361" verse the 0.357" of the 38 Special. I won't say if they fit in the cylinder go ahead and shoot them, but I likely would.
Our friends at SAAMI don't quite agree. The link is worth downloading as a future reference. Some I agree with and some not so much. Anyway it's the published SAAMI data.
Ron
The 38 S&W is obviously a slightly fatter cartridge than the 38 Special. The bullet diameter is also 0.361" verse the 0.357" of the 38 Special. I won't say if they fit in the cylinder go ahead and shoot them, but I likely would.
Our friends at SAAMI don't quite agree. The link is worth downloading as a future reference. Some I agree with and some not so much. Anyway it's the published SAAMI data.
Ron
1911_Hardball
New member
That's right. 7.5 thousandths; not 75 thousandths as the post I was replying to stated.
I'm just going through the other end of this.
A Friend's Grandfather died and she inherited his Colt Police Positive in 38 New Police. Essentially,the same cartidge as 38 S+W.
My crotchety Old Gunsmith LGS showed "Permanently Closed" on the web page
when I looked up the phone number. That was the only shop old enough for hope for old stock.
So much for that. New factory ammo? I don't think they will tear down a 9mm line to make a run of 38 S+W anytime soon.Especially since Remington,Partisan Pervi and Buffalo Bore are the only loads I found current.The Buffalo Bore is advertised as abot 1100 or 1200 fps.Definitely too hot to provide for Grandpas near 100 yr old gun.Loading data shows about 650 fps.
The path I chose to help her with a source of ammo for Grandpa's gun involvd buying 200 PPU brass from Gafs...Starline shows a 500 rd minimum.They do make it.
I found an old Ideal .360 mold. and some Pacific dies.
Its all arrived lately. Scrounging this stuff up is neither cheap nor easy.
I'm getting at this: IMO,don't try to "make do" with rare and valuable old ammo.It won't serve you all that well,and it really valuable to someone who has a gun that only shoots that ammo.
I don't know if h is still active,but "The Old Western Scrounger might be interested in it.
A Friend's Grandfather died and she inherited his Colt Police Positive in 38 New Police. Essentially,the same cartidge as 38 S+W.
My crotchety Old Gunsmith LGS showed "Permanently Closed" on the web page
when I looked up the phone number. That was the only shop old enough for hope for old stock.
So much for that. New factory ammo? I don't think they will tear down a 9mm line to make a run of 38 S+W anytime soon.Especially since Remington,Partisan Pervi and Buffalo Bore are the only loads I found current.The Buffalo Bore is advertised as abot 1100 or 1200 fps.Definitely too hot to provide for Grandpas near 100 yr old gun.Loading data shows about 650 fps.
The path I chose to help her with a source of ammo for Grandpa's gun involvd buying 200 PPU brass from Gafs...Starline shows a 500 rd minimum.They do make it.
I found an old Ideal .360 mold. and some Pacific dies.
Its all arrived lately. Scrounging this stuff up is neither cheap nor easy.
I'm getting at this: IMO,don't try to "make do" with rare and valuable old ammo.It won't serve you all that well,and it really valuable to someone who has a gun that only shoots that ammo.
I don't know if h is still active,but "The Old Western Scrounger might be interested in it.
Last edited:
You may want to measure the throat diameter and slug the bore. I have the same revolver. The best bullet for it is actually 9mm (0.355"). I still have most of the 0.361" cast bullets I bought trying to handload for it.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I got into the 38 S&W-38/200 a few years back when I picked up an old Enfield for a decent price.
38 S&W isn't easily found in most shops around here, and when I bought that Enfield, it took me four more stops on the way home, before I found a shop that had any, and they only had one box, and it was Remington "Target" (must be a joke), at $35/50. And that was before the panic.
Starline makes brass, its fairly cheap and readily available. Matts makes two versions of the British 200 grain bullets, and they work well too.
I have a bunch of 38 and 357 S&W revolvers, and none of mine will chamber a 38 S&W round. Ive been told that Remington brass "might", depending on the gun, but it doesn't in any of mine, or at least the brass from that box I bought doesn't.
If you are looking at one of these guns, I would suggest you take a 38 Special round along, or if your in a shop, that you ask them to see if it will chamber one. If it does, Id walk. There still seem to be plenty of unmolested guns around to have to deal with that.
I also have two of the British S&W Victorys in the caliber, and they are the better choice if you want a gun in this caliber. The Enfield shoots OK, but its crude compared to the Smiths.
All three of mine prefer the .361 diameter bullets. I have tried 158 grain .357 LSWC's in them, and at 10-15 yards, they seem to shoot OK, but they also shoot low to POA of the sights. Part of that is probably velocity and lighter bullet too.
The typical 146 grain US 38 S&W load also seemed to shoot a bit low in the Enfield when I shot it. I haven't loaded that since, nor have I shot it in the S&W's.
If you reload, the cost and availability issues are basically rendered moot. Once you have one gun in the caliber, don't be surprised if they start to multiply. Very pleasant and fun to shoot too.
38 S&W isn't easily found in most shops around here, and when I bought that Enfield, it took me four more stops on the way home, before I found a shop that had any, and they only had one box, and it was Remington "Target" (must be a joke), at $35/50. And that was before the panic.
Starline makes brass, its fairly cheap and readily available. Matts makes two versions of the British 200 grain bullets, and they work well too.
I have a bunch of 38 and 357 S&W revolvers, and none of mine will chamber a 38 S&W round. Ive been told that Remington brass "might", depending on the gun, but it doesn't in any of mine, or at least the brass from that box I bought doesn't.
If you are looking at one of these guns, I would suggest you take a 38 Special round along, or if your in a shop, that you ask them to see if it will chamber one. If it does, Id walk. There still seem to be plenty of unmolested guns around to have to deal with that.
I also have two of the British S&W Victorys in the caliber, and they are the better choice if you want a gun in this caliber. The Enfield shoots OK, but its crude compared to the Smiths.
All three of mine prefer the .361 diameter bullets. I have tried 158 grain .357 LSWC's in them, and at 10-15 yards, they seem to shoot OK, but they also shoot low to POA of the sights. Part of that is probably velocity and lighter bullet too.
The typical 146 grain US 38 S&W load also seemed to shoot a bit low in the Enfield when I shot it. I haven't loaded that since, nor have I shot it in the S&W's.
If you reload, the cost and availability issues are basically rendered moot. Once you have one gun in the caliber, don't be surprised if they start to multiply. Very pleasant and fun to shoot too.
It never ceases to amaze me why so many people are willing to try and shoot ammunition, not in the proper caliber and never intended to be fired in some particular firearm.
44 Mag/44 Spc/44 Rus and 357 Mag/38 Spc/38 Long & Short aside, they are all based on the same parent cartridge, just longer and longer versions. People try shooting 380s in 9mms. They try shooting 38 Super in 357s. And here we have people shooting or trying to shoot 38 S&W cartridges in 38 S&W Special revolvers.
In these days of near zero ammunition availability, trading for the right ammunition for your gun is so much more reasonable and such good sense. Why on earth try to fit a square peg in a round hole, or more to the point if your square peg does fit in that round hole...it still isn't supposed to be there.
Good grief!
Dave
44 Mag/44 Spc/44 Rus and 357 Mag/38 Spc/38 Long & Short aside, they are all based on the same parent cartridge, just longer and longer versions. People try shooting 380s in 9mms. They try shooting 38 Super in 357s. And here we have people shooting or trying to shoot 38 S&W cartridges in 38 S&W Special revolvers.
In these days of near zero ammunition availability, trading for the right ammunition for your gun is so much more reasonable and such good sense. Why on earth try to fit a square peg in a round hole, or more to the point if your square peg does fit in that round hole...it still isn't supposed to be there.
Good grief!
Dave
Something doesnt sound right here. What kind of 38 Special guns are you getting the 38 S&W's to chamber in?
I just grabbed a handful of 38 S&W's, both R/P and Starline brass, and tried again in three different S&W's, two 38 specials (model 10's) and a 357mag (model 19), and not one round of the Starline will even begin to chamber, and the R/P will start in about 1/8" and then stops cold.
I just grabbed a handful of 38 S&W's, both R/P and Starline brass, and tried again in three different S&W's, two 38 specials (model 10's) and a 357mag (model 19), and not one round of the Starline will even begin to chamber, and the R/P will start in about 1/8" and then stops cold.
And .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R magnum, .327 Federal
.45 Schofield, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .460 S&W
And I've held off with: Many things can be done once.
I have one revolver chambered in .38 S&W, a S&W Model 32-1. Because of that, I had two boxes of Remington .38 S&W ammo on the shelf several years ago when this question came up on another forum. I also have 19 different revolvers chambered in .38 Special or .357 Magnum. As is the case here, there were different opinions and experiences regarding whether the .38 S&W would chamber in .38/.357 revolvers, which led me to test all of them. Every chamber of every cylinder in every one of those revolvers easily chambered the Remington .38 S&W ammo.
Now, I think it very unlikely that that many revolvers, from a number of different manufacturers, made over a period of some five decades or more, all had oversized chambers, which leads me to two conclusions: (1) there's no question that some brand or brands of .38 S&W ammo will chamber in some (perhaps all) .38/.357 revolvers, and (2) Remington .38 S&W ammo appears to be slightly undersized for the caliber (which I've heard others claim).
All of that said, I never have and never will fire incorrect ammo in any of my firearms, regardless of whether it chambers, and I would strongly advise others to only use the specific type of ammo that the firearm is chambered for, no matter what others may tell them is OK.
Now, I think it very unlikely that that many revolvers, from a number of different manufacturers, made over a period of some five decades or more, all had oversized chambers, which leads me to two conclusions: (1) there's no question that some brand or brands of .38 S&W ammo will chamber in some (perhaps all) .38/.357 revolvers, and (2) Remington .38 S&W ammo appears to be slightly undersized for the caliber (which I've heard others claim).
All of that said, I never have and never will fire incorrect ammo in any of my firearms, regardless of whether it chambers, and I would strongly advise others to only use the specific type of ammo that the firearm is chambered for, no matter what others may tell them is OK.
I have three 38 specials , S&W J frame , S&W K frame and a Colt Police Positive Special and two 357 magnums
S&w N frame and Ruger Blackwawk .
I also have a 38 S&W top break with a box factory ammo.
The 38 S&W would not completely chamber in any of the 38 special or 357 Magnum revolvers ... All would go into the chamber and stop about 1/2 way in ... a decent press with my thumb and they did not go in any farther ... not one would seat completely.
The Colt Police Positive Special left about 1/4" of case protruding... being so old I thought it might chamber one ...but it did not .
Bottom line is none of my 5 38/357 would fully chamber a 38S&W .
Gary
S&w N frame and Ruger Blackwawk .
I also have a 38 S&W top break with a box factory ammo.
The 38 S&W would not completely chamber in any of the 38 special or 357 Magnum revolvers ... All would go into the chamber and stop about 1/2 way in ... a decent press with my thumb and they did not go in any farther ... not one would seat completely.
The Colt Police Positive Special left about 1/4" of case protruding... being so old I thought it might chamber one ...but it did not .
Bottom line is none of my 5 38/357 would fully chamber a 38S&W .
Gary
What gun did you try and what ammo?
I tried them in my newish 686+, and the same result as the others.
As I said earlier, Ive been told that factory R&P is a bit undersized and "might" go, but my reloaded R&P brass wont.
Unless you have a 38spl with very generous chambers, which probably isnt good anyway, and wouldn't be good for your 38spl brass either, Im not seeing them chambering.
The problem with the 38S&W's that were bored out so the 38spls would work, tend to cause the brass to swell and split, and there's a reason for that. Its the same reason a 38S&W shouldn't chamber in a 38spl.
I tried them in my newish 686+, and the same result as the others.
As I said earlier, Ive been told that factory R&P is a bit undersized and "might" go, but my reloaded R&P brass wont.
Unless you have a 38spl with very generous chambers, which probably isnt good anyway, and wouldn't be good for your 38spl brass either, Im not seeing them chambering.
The problem with the 38S&W's that were bored out so the 38spls would work, tend to cause the brass to swell and split, and there's a reason for that. Its the same reason a 38S&W shouldn't chamber in a 38spl.
One thing to consider, all factory ammo is slightly UNDER the published specs (which generally are the maximum allowed dimensions).
they MAY be slightly under the minimum dimension specs, to ensure chambering in guns with min spec chambers.
Any variation is possible due to the range of tolerances on the ammo and on the chambers. A .38 S&W should not fit in a .38 Special chamber, and most of the time, they won't, and sometimes they will.
If it chambers, it will fire. The oversize bullet squeezes down the barrel just fine. The low pressure of the .38 S&W does not overstrain the gun.
For over a century there has been a lot more .38 Special ammo than .38S&W. Even today with "nothing" available, you're much, much more likely to get your hands on .38 Special before you find any .38S&W.
SO, shooting .38 S&W in a .38 Special gun that it fits in, while mechanically safe, is BARKING STUPID!!! It's a WASTE of a scarce commodity, and money, as well. There's a lot of folks out there with guns that will only shoot .38S&W who would likely pay well for some ammo, or even trade you .38Spl for it.
they MAY be slightly under the minimum dimension specs, to ensure chambering in guns with min spec chambers.
Any variation is possible due to the range of tolerances on the ammo and on the chambers. A .38 S&W should not fit in a .38 Special chamber, and most of the time, they won't, and sometimes they will.
If it chambers, it will fire. The oversize bullet squeezes down the barrel just fine. The low pressure of the .38 S&W does not overstrain the gun.
For over a century there has been a lot more .38 Special ammo than .38S&W. Even today with "nothing" available, you're much, much more likely to get your hands on .38 Special before you find any .38S&W.
SO, shooting .38 S&W in a .38 Special gun that it fits in, while mechanically safe, is BARKING STUPID!!! It's a WASTE of a scarce commodity, and money, as well. There's a lot of folks out there with guns that will only shoot .38S&W who would likely pay well for some ammo, or even trade you .38Spl for it.
$$$$