Can Pocket Carry Be Beat? Observations from the Laser Range.

Well, then... maybe some of those who “know what they are saying” can tell us their experiences with pocket carry - what works, what didn’t, the type of gear they were using, and the specific types of problems they encountered.

I think we all agree that standing around with your strong hand in your pocket can be fairly dangerous if someone is close enough to hit/grapple you. And that the speed advantage is only there if you can assume a master grip covertly, so it isn’t a great solution for being surprised. However, say if you were a clerk working behind a convenience store counter, where you have a barrier between you and the public and you see some suspicious people come in, pocket carry lets you assume a master grip quietly and a socially acceptable way. Customers might well wonder what you have in your pocketses but they are unlikely to react the same way as if you grabbed the butt of an OWB/IWB rig and stood there.

However, it would be great if people shared their knowledge instead of their opinion, since as TFL regularly demonstrates, we offen form different opinions based on the same experience. Describing the experience that helped you form the opinion is more useful than just sharing the opinion.

If my only experience with pocket carry was using the same pistol and holster( but wearing the Duluth Armachillo shorts instead of the Fire Hose, I’d have a completely different opinion because that combo is unworkable for me. It’s not even fast when you start with your hand on the pistol because you can’t get the pistol out. If I tried it with sweat pants I’d think sagging and zero retention.

But I’d love to hear experiences, even the bad ones help others from repeating that same set of mistakes.
 
I've written about this in other threads, but here goes:

I'm in the camp of "better to have it with you than leave it at home." When I carry, it's almost always in my right front pocket. It's almost always a Glock 42 in a Sticky holster. I live in an open carry state but I don't want to open carry or do anything else that scares the populace. Pocket carry makes that easier.

I know I'm not going to win a quick draw competition. I can have my hand in my pocket without looking threatening. "Nothing happening here. Just walking around with my hands in my pockets."

I put some things on my belt that would otherwise go into my pocket. My phone and a reload ride in owb belt pouches. I don't care about the populace seeing those. They will not recognize the reload. I also have a couple of pairs of pants that have an extra pocket on the right side, behind the "normal" pocket. But even with pants that don't have extra pockets, my method of pocket carry works fine for me.

Two things do concern me, and they have both been pointed out here - it's hard to draw from a seated position, and it's pretty near impossible to draw with my left hand. But, I have my pistol with me more often than not, so there's that.
 
Some guys have huge pockets, apparently.
"I carry a Beretta 92 in my pocket."
"I carry a J frame in my pocket."
I carry an LCP in my WATCH POCKET."

Wrangler relaxed fit cargo shorts/pants available at Wal-Mart.
I can easily pocket carry a Kahr PM/ Glock 43 and its near invisible due to my chronically untucked shirt, which also conceals the pistol on my belt. ;)
 
I prefer to carry in a waistband holster, but that is often not practical, so I'm left with pocket carry. For me, it is now usually a Kahr CM9, Sig P238, or Ruger LCP. The Kahr for larger pockets like some cargo shorts and the Sig or Ruger in everything else.

Like reteach, I carry a sticky holster and never had one come out of my pocket unless I wanted it to do so. Maybe it's the way I draw the pistol. For awhile, I consciously pulled the pistol so there would be just a bit of pressure to make the holster press against my leg during the draw. Now it's second nature. It also helps to have a holster that is big enough that it naturally creates a bit of resistance to being drawn from the pocket. By no means, however, am I a quick-draw artist.
 
Let's go back in time

I like pocket carry.

Mae West had it right, is that a pistol in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?
 
Can Pocket Carry Be Beat? Observations from the Laser Range.

My typical rig is a Glock 19 in a Sparks Versa-Max 2. At seven yards, I am at a pretty consistent 1.8-2.0 to get an A-zone hit on the head of an IPSC target.

1.8-2 seconds is a long time to get one shot off at close range.

Maybe look at people that hold records putting firearms into use. I can’t think of one that draws from a pocket.

Some were quick though, you might not even be able to put your fingers on your pocket pistol before Mr Munden, had already drawn, fired and reholstered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hujvVmuLuoM
 
Tunnel Rat said:
I don't wear tight clothes, but what pants are you wearing where the pockets are big enough for a pistol and a wallet?

It isn't as hard as you guys might imagine. I wear pleated pants that have fairly large pockets. I prefer Brooks Brothers Chinos. I try to keep my wallet fairly thin. Like I said, dark colors help conceal a lot. I have switched to strong side with the Techna Clip. I know you all think I am going to give myself Glock Leg one of these days, but that is how I carry.
 
BR said:
"Well, then... maybe some of those who “know what they are saying” can tell us their experiences with pocket carry - what works, what didn’t, the type of gear they were using, and the specific types of problems they encountered."

I 'know what I'm saying,' but what I say might not be worth a plugged nickel. You be the judge.

Been pocket carrying since about 1990. If I can manage it I prefer strong side belt, but sometimes pocket is the best way to go. It works for me when a 1911 on a belt is not an option.

Guns successfully pocket carried for a length of time
Beretta 21A .22LR
AMT .45ACP DAO Backup .45ACP
Kel-Tec P-40 .40S&W
Kel-Tec P-32 .32ACP
J-frame .38spl, .357mag (Pocket carry this the most)
1911 Officer's ACP 9mm


Pants used for pocket carry (long & short)
Loose fit blue jeans (Second most common)
Loose fit Khakis (Most common)
Cargo shorts of various sorts
Loose fit denim shorts
Tuxedo pants
Speedos(1)
"Tactical" pants & shorts


Pocket holsters / carry devices used for a period of time
Various Uncle Mikes pocket holsters. Sizes 1-4 IIRC.
Galco horsehide made for Walther PPK (I do not own any Walthers)
Aker horsehide made especially for AMT .45ACP DAOBU
Some horsehide model made especially for S&W J-frames (Most used)
A better-than-uncle-mikes synthetic that is stickier
Handkerchief
Folded up card stock

===================

Many of the above combos (gun+pants+holster) work. Others don't. It is good to have a variety of guns & holsters to suit whatever pants you happen to wear that day. To get the most out of the carry concept you might have to put in some thought.

Various comments & notes

If you come across a quality large-ish horsehide pocket holster for a semi-auto on sale, might want to pick it up. For example, the Galco horsehide made for the Walther can tote my Kel-tec P-40, AMT .45aCP DAO, or 1911 OACP in the right non-cargo pocket, as the pockets were cut deep and wide. And keep them oriented. Put a mag or two in the off-side cargo pocket and your are well-armed, especially with the 1911.

Sometimes that Galco holster is better for my AMT DAOBU than the fitted Aker unit. The Galco is square-bottomed and Aker is round-bottomed. One works better than the other depending on the pocket.

My pocket carry used to be more varied, but nowadays a S&W J-frame does the duty 75% of the time. With a Crimson Trace laser, it can hit in low light & at range. Underwood's +P FBI load is potent. I usually have a speed strip of them along, in a speed strip carrier made of leather.

If I need ultra-conceal-ability, the Kel-Tec P-32 gets the nod. It is lighter & thinner than the Beretta 21A.

While seated in a car, drawing from strong side sucks. Drawing from pocket sucks more & is nigh impossible to do quickly.

About the only size/config pocket pistol I lack is a slim 9mm single stack. Something like the SIG P938 or the new pocketable Glock. I keep telling my wife she needs a SIG P938. (So I can borrow it upon occasion.)

Good luck.


(1) Just kidding, I would never inflict that sight on innocent bystanders.
 
I'm saying that the only time pocket carry works is when the carrier is standing.
I can beat you senseless with a soda straw before you can draw from pocket carry while seated in a vehicle, a restaurant booth, or any other scenario in which you can't stand upright immediately.
 
But I’d love to hear experiences, even the bad ones help others from repeating that same set of mistakes.
Carried a Taurus M380 and Glock 42 in the pocket using a 'ClipDraw' clip, in RH pocket with keys in left pocket. LONG DAO trigger of M380 makes it safe, IMHO and if I want to have ne in the chamber in the Glock, I use a trigger cover with lanyard..otherwise no round in the pipe. Pic of Taurus..
 

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mobuck said:
I'm saying that the only time pocket carry works is when the carrier is standing.
I can beat you senseless with a soda straw before you can draw from pocket carry while seated in a vehicle, a restaurant booth, or any other scenario in which you can't stand upright immediately.

Almost as true for any strong-side carry, OWB or IWB. In the end, being seated when the balloon goes up leaves one at a disadvantage in most any case. Bludgeoning or bladed attacks from up-close may be best met with a blade or empty-handed technique, no matter where one's pistol is holstered.

Getting to your OWB/IWB-holstered pistol that is both under a cover garment whilst your seat belt(1) is attached is SLOW. If you are a big guy or driving a snug vehicle, almost as slow as pocket carry. Best case for strong-side belt holster carry in a vehicle is when driving a full-sized pickup with bench seats. So don't order those bucket seats.

Seated in a chair or booth makes for an easier strong-side belt holster draw, but still not great and still slow. Sweeping your cover garment is easily fouled by chair or booth. Rising and then drawing may be cleaner, but time is lost while rising and it very well may mark one out to the threat by the sudden rise and/or tumping over the table.

So if the primary concern is drawing while seated, the on-body solutions are (in order of quickness and ease of access):
1. Driving holster
2. Tanker holster
3. Shoulder holster
4. Cross-draw
5. Ankle

And off-body center-console "carry" as well as an easily accessed car holster are options.



(1) Yes, some training focuses on this and provides techniques that attenuate some of the problems. But those techniques can leave your pistol exposed and no longer concealed from passers-by and your cover garment arranged unnaturally. No free lunch.
 
I favor a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster and have three in different sizes. I carry a Ruger LCP, Sig P238, Kahr CM9, and, until recently, a SW Model 38.
 
Guns successfully pocket carried for a length of time...
1911 Officer's ACP 9mm

That’s one big pocket. Reminds me of a childhood friend that could bench press 140lbs in elementary school and leg press 470 lbs in middle school. He was so big he could put a VHS tape in his pocket as an adult.
 
So if the primary concern is drawing while seated, the on-body solutions are (in order of quickness and ease of access):
1. Driving holster
2. Tanker holster
3. Shoulder holster
4. Cross-draw
5. Ankle

You left out Appendix
 
jmorris said:
That’s one big pocket. Reminds me of a childhood friend that could bench press 140lbs in elementary school and leg press 470 lbs in middle school. He was so big he could put a VHS tape in his pocket as an adult.

The pocket was a large panel sewed onto the side of the shorts that covered most of the thigh. Could not tell the empty pocket from the pocket with the 1911OACP.

sharkbite said:
You left out Appendix

Not so much. The list regards "drawing while seated," not "drawing while copping Zs in a Barcalounger." AIWB, like strong side OWB/IWB, is sub-optimal for drawing whilst seated in chair, booth, or automobile.

Barcalounger-Dandridge-II-Yadkin-Bark-Chair-Recline%20(1).jpg


AIWB is fine & dandy, but it has limitations like all other carry methods, despite it being the new hotness.
 
AIWB, like strong side OWB/IWB, is sub-optimal for drawing whilst seated in chair, booth, or automobile

If thats what you think, you should spend some time getting instruction in AIWB. While sitting in a vehicle (even with a seat belt in place) AWIB allows an easy draw stroke.

I can even discreetly get a full firing grip while seated in a restaurant booth with my hand below the table top and under my shirttail.
 
sharkbite said:
If thats what you think, you should spend some time getting instruction in AIWB.

Not a thought experiment for me. I used AIWB(0) before it became the new cult hotness. I'll put it to use, when appropriate and/or the best for my particular situation, after it is stale and passe and many folk are left wondering what all the fuss was about. Fads: Not just for teenaged girls.


(0) With pistols small as J-frames and large as GM 1911. Even have two AIWB solutions for belt-less carry during vigorous activity.
 
Not a thought experiment for me. I used AIWB(0) before it became the new cult hotness

Its not a thought experiment for me either. Ive been carrying in that position for almost 25 years.

As i sit here, chilling at a resort in Scottsdale Az, im carrying AIWB. I would have ZERO problems drawing from my chair. Ive drawn from inside cars (front and back seat) without having to even remove the seat belt.

Im not sure why you would say you cant draw while seated. Thats one of the strongest reasons for AWIB.
 
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