Can "plonked" rounds become "Unplonked"?

R

robhic

New member
This is curious (to me). I made some .45acp rounds 2 days ago. A 200gr round-nose plated Ranier bullet over 7.0 gr of HS-6 powder.

My normal method is to assemble the round and use the barrel of my Glock G36 45acp pistol as a gauge, starting with the OAL suggested in the manual. I then adjust seating depth until the round(s) plonk and I am good.

I made up 50 rds this way and went to the range with my granddude today to do some shooting. Two-three rounds fired and 4th locked up the gun. :eek:

I got it apart and tried another round in the mag. Locked. Depth was just a bit too long. I stopped and we finished the 9mm portion of our program (:D) then left. Tried again at home and sure enough, a bit long. I tried to seat the round a bit deeper and it got better but not 100%. At this point, the bullet, IMO, looks like it's getting deeper than I'd like. Any ideas how to re-plonk these 50 trouble-makers without seating getting too deep? Thanks for ideas.
 
What is plonking?

I would imagine the reason they don't fit is related to diameter, under crimp or over crimp.
 
I would try to define where they are binding up, OAL, mouth diameter, bulged.

If these are not near max loads I don't believe closing them up an extra .010" is going to make them unsafe.
 
Once you find a seating depth that fits via the plunk test, seat them 0.010" to 0.020" deeper in order to account for rounds where the bullet might not seat as deep as your original acceptable depth, and differences between bullets in their exact nose shape which can affect how deeply they are pressed into the case when seated.
 
Three questions.
What was the OAL you got from the manual?
What was the OAL of the rounds that won't function?
What is the OAL of your remaining rounds, are they consistent?
I think these answers will steer you in the right direction.
I know it's frustrating when something that always worked before now doesn't but I usually find that I had something to do with it, just takes a really thorough review.
 
It sounds kinda funny that it all of a sudden stopped working. Are you sure theres not something in the chamber of your gun? Maybe a small speck of something got wedged in there.
Then try more crimp
 
HS6 is the only powder I have ever loaded that would coke up the chamber to the point of malfunction. But not in two or three shots. Just to be sure, clean the chamber.
 
My normal method is to assemble the round and use the barrel of my Glock G36 45acp pistol as a gauge, starting with the OAL suggested in the manual. I then adjust seating depth until the round(s) plonk and I am good.
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Did you plunk test very round or just until you got your seating die adjusted? Once you established seating maximum plunk COL, did you seat a few thousandths deeper to allow for bullet length and profile tolerances or did you leave the die at max plunk COL?
 
Did you possibly set your OAL on a progressive press 1 round at a time and then start loading with cartridges in all of the stations?

If so the OAL will increase with cartridges in all stations.
 
Did you plunk test very round or just until you got your seating die adjusted? Once you established seating maximum plunk COL, did you seat a few thousandths deeper to allow for bullet length and profile tolerances or did you leave the die at max plunk COL?
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Didn't do every round, chamber is/was clean. I generally plonk the first few and if all are good I check randomly after that. They must have checked OK because I wouldn't have left them as-is if I'd have seen them .01" or so above the barrel hood. It was easily visually detectable.

The confusing part is the manual gives 1.061". The data I used was for a LSWC since there was no plated bullet data. Figured weight being same and all, I could use that data and just adjust for my bit longer, RN bullet instead of a flat wadcutter style. I got 1.070" for the RN and it musta plonked at that OAL because I can't believe I would have left the rounds the tiny bit too long as they are now. Plus, a couple fired alright while the rest didn't.:confused:

When I got home and got around to trying to adjust them I reseated them a bit at a time until they started to look too short. STILL didn't plonk properly and I stopped to see what more experienced folks might suggest.

Besides going shorter than I'd like, the bullet just looks 'wrong' in that it is set deeper than I'd like. That's what I can't figure. Some have worked in the past, some worked yesterday and the majority are too long. This is nuts!
 
Three questions.
What was the OAL you got from the manual?
What was the OAL of the rounds that won't function?
What is the OAL of your remaining rounds, are they consistent?
Click to expand...


1 - Manual OAL was 1.061" but it was for a LSWC. I used a plated RN same weight 1.070" allowing for a RN instead of flat.

2 - Rounds too long were 1.070" but remember I was using a bit longer bullet profile.

3 - Haven't actually measured the remaining rounds. I just put them in and reseated a bit at a time until they started to look too short.

It almost seems like the bullets lengthened! I can NOT believe I would have or could have checked the plonk and it was OK. Then 2 days later they weren't. I KNOW I'm not missing something so obvious. That's what puzzles me....
 
I have not used Ranier plated bullets but I have used Berry's and X-Treme plated bullets and can tell you that the bullet ogive is not always consistent. I measure almost every round before it goes in the box and I can tell you for certain that I can get a variation of as much as 0.010" within a run of a couple hundred. Most being short with just a few long.

Measure what you have and check diameters, crimps.
 
Use the magic marker method at the link you provided to determine why they are not fitting in your chamber. That will tell you what needs to be addressed.
 
Potential Danger!

1.070" is very, very short for .45 Auto; it is a 9 mm COL. I suspect you looked up or remembered a 9 mm number by mistake. I note the Hornady manual has their 200 grain LSWC at 1.225" COL. Round nose bullets normally seat longer unless the nose is hemispherical (like Hornady's lead RN) instead of having the military style hemielliptical profile. Ranier's are hemielliptical. So I did what you really should have done rather than assuming some other bullet would have the right COL for a different maker's design. They almost never do. I called Ranier's 800 number and asked them for the length (nominally 0.590") and recommended COL for that bullet, and they said that COL is 1.240". So 1.070" is way, way short.

I put your seating depth at 0.418" in a maximum length case. That is about 0.050" deeper than where .45 Auto brass case walls begin to thicken, so pushing a bullet in that far can make the case fatter than the chamber over top of the bullet base. Seating it deeper at that point will just make it fatter, still. QuickLOAD puts the pressure at 23,000 psi for a 26 grain H2O capacity case, so right at the top end of +P, with no margin for error.

Seat the bullets to 1.240, as recommended. Ranier also recommends you use a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die with these bullets to ensure correct OD.

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"...What is plonking?..." Queen's English for plunking. snicker.
Usually means the ram wasn't operated consistently and the taper crimp and/or the OAL isn't right.
"...1.070" is very, very short for .45 Auto..." Yep. WAAAAY under SAAMI minimum OAL for .45 ACP of 1.190". Mind you, 7.0 gr of HS-6 is 1.2 grains under minimum(8.2) for a cast 200 too.
 
Bullet profiles are rarely consistent. I typically drop every round into my chamber for my 9mm. My CZ has a very short leade and I typically have to seat deeper than what the book recommends.
 
robhic wrote:
A 200gr round-nose plated Ranier bullet over 7.0 gr of HS-6 powder.

and

The confusing part is the manual gives 1.061"
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I have nearly 40 years worth of reloading manuals on my shelves and none of them has an OAL less than 1.161 for a 45 ACP load and most are 1.220 or longer. It sounds like you may be using data for a 45 GAP (Glock Automatic Pistol) in a 45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). If so, you are seating the bullet way too deep and driving the pressure to dangerous levels.

If you used 45 GAP data, then disassemble all the rounds you have now as they are not safe to fire in a Glock 36. Then, go back and review the manual and make sure you have the right data for the cartridge you are actually loading and try again.

Also, I'm going to suggest that since this could have been a catastrophic failure, you need to stop reloading while you go back and review the "how to reload" section of your manual and develop a formal set of written reloading procedures and an associated checklist to use every time you load to ensure you follow the steps you have written down - to include verification of the load, caliber and bullet, elimination of distractions, and abstinence from food, drinking and drugs when reloading (I use the same standard for abstinence the FAA applies to pilots in my written procedures).
 
Danger averted

Also, I'm going to suggest that since this could have been a catastrophic failure, you need to stop reloading while you go back and review the "how to reload" section of your manual and develop a formal set of written reloading procedures and an associated checklist to use every time you load to ensure you follow the steps you have written down - to include verification of the load, caliber and bullet, elimination of distractions, and abstinence from food, drinking and drugs when reloading (I use the same standard for abstinence the FAA applies to pilots in my written procedures).
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No food, drinking or medication. I try to have nothing to cause distraction. However, I truly think I am losing my mind!!!

I have no idea where I got my initial 1.070" OAL figure from. I looked in my log/notes and it was 1.270", not 1.070". I must have taken my "2" for a "0" and didn't question why such a short round!

So I took the 47 rounds left and re-seated them to 1.240" as suggested. I then plonked the rounds and all was good. I must be losing my mind or need to have my vision checked. I took the one or two I had seated to the too-low 1.070", pulled the bullet and put back to 1.270" so all of the rounds are now a correct length.

My only curiousity is how the 3 rounds loaded to 1.270" fired yesterday. Three fired and #4 locked up the gun. I plonked all of the re-seated rounds just to be sure.
 
robhic wrote:
I have no idea where I got my initial 1.070" OAL figure from.
Click to expand...

That OAL along with a starting load of 7 grains for HS-6 is what Hodgdon lists for the 45 GAP. The starting load for 45 ACP is 8.2 grains and the OAL 1.225.

Since you were using a 45 GAP charge and a 45 GAP OAL, it is logical to conclude you accidentally looked up 45 GAP rather than 45 ACP.

My father got me to create and use a set of written reloading procedures and an associated checksheet that travels with the cartridges throughout the process and then gets filed for future reference. The checksheet has saved me from making mistakes regarding load, powder, and the like more than once over the last 40 years of reloading. I strongly encourage you to adopt a similar practice.
 
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