Can Opinions Be Changed?

I was initially dumbfounded when I saw how much stock is being placed on the big social media platforms. The psychological power of the Thumbs Up icon is immense now. It has power
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The power of social media is in cowing people into submission by controlling the flow of information they receive. Troll farms exist for a reason; but they aren’t as numerous as they appear to be. That’s why one of the prime tactics of any information attack is to first get actual people to shut up by shouting them down, getting them banned, etc.
 
Very intriguing discussion and very germane. My question is why should this question be limited to only firearms?

[Moderator: Off-topic comments deleted.]
 
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Most people form their opinion based on what information is spoon fed to them in these modern times. Social media raised them, it’s all they trust. They idolize the people that sell their words.
 
kmw1954 said:
Very intriguing discussion and very germane. My question is why should this question be limited to only firearms?
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Because this is a firearms forum.

ALL other political issues are off-topic here. I've edited or deleted several posts. No more, please.
 
Ok, I will take a shot at this. There is an interesting book:

Payback: The Case for Revenge
by Thane Rosenbaum

It examines the difference between a justice society and a revenge society. In the former, justice and defense are the responsibility of the state. The state is seen as the repository and sole user of force (except for the limited and controlled self-situation). No other use of force is acceptable.

In the latter, revenge societies, the state has failed to enforce laws or provide for your safety. Thus, you have to be the instrument of force in almost all circumstances. This leads to militias (not in the 2nd Amend. sense, but fun in the Middle East, Balkans, Africa, Afghan sense), blood feuds between families, clans and tribes.

Having guns outside of limited sporting usage or the strict limits of self-defense speaks to having a society that doesn't have the rule of law and a state that keeps you state. It is on the verge of becoming a revenge society. Thus folks may not want that and see limiting guns as preventing society from falling in such a pit.

The USA is special in the sense that we recognized (or some did) that we needed a repository of force outside the normal armed forces and police to defend against tyranny. Most countries do not have that principle in their fundamental governing documents. That is the core of the 2nd Amend. in some views.

Having a gun for self-defense wouldn't be necessary if the rule of law was actual efficient except in very rare cases. Having a wide distribution of deadly instruments of force or weapons of mass destruction (Sen. Joe Manchin) is not needed and really a bad thing - given their potential for misuse.

Even for self-defense - the Double Barrel Biden or 5 is enough mantras would cover some limited possession of guns for SD. The tyranny usage is seen as ridiculous by the antigun folks. Certainly, the higher cap guns are not needed.

That's my first take on this. A justice society doesn't need significant civilian firearms ownership outside of some limited cases. That is the world view. Note, that eventually the sports, hunting and self-defense needs would eliminated.

Some countries are developing some pretty neat less lethal SD alternatives for their civilians. In the abstract, they could be useful. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/03/19/umarex-hdr50-airguns/

That covers SD and keeps the general populace weaponry below that of the state.
 
People change their opinions all the time. I know plenty of liberal gun owners who choose to stay in "the closet" to avoid being stigmatized by their liberal peers but who have decided to exercise their RKBA rights.
 
I believe the bell curve explains it well enough.
The 80% in the middle follows the current winds and why we need to find our voice and a method to deliver our side of it.
We are only still standing because the 2A has been propping us up all this time not because we are doing a good job.

I find it simple yet diabolical that they can come at us from all angles (literally). No sooner have they found a way to take them from the elderly, they take them from the 18-21 year olds. I see a sliding scale here just like the number of bullets in a gun on the horizon. After all, people have already identified that most all the mass murderers are 25-34 or there abouts.
 
problem #1 is that to them, because we have guns, we are all mass murderers in waiting. If we happen to prefer military style firearms, all that does is "prove" to them that we are closer to the edge than those who prefer traditional looking sporting arms (like double barrel shotguns, etc.)

harm = bad/evil
guns cause harm
therefore, guns = bad/evil
therefore, people who actually like guns = people who want to do evil...

That's the way some of them see gunowners, and changing that is more than just difficult, because of two things, first, everyone in their social circle is telling them that they are right to fear gunowners, because they all think along similar lines, and second, while, if they get to know and trust YOU, as a gun owner, they will still keep their ideas about all the other gunowners, who, clearly can't be trusted. (unless they have a badge and/or a uniform)

Can opinions be changed?? maybe, but doesn't it boil down to the old joke about how many psychiatrists it takes to change a lightbulb??

Only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change....

We are at the mercy of democracy. Which is mostly a good thing, but remember that 3 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner is ALSO democracy....
 
They sure can change, for the last almost two years they have been protesting and rioting against the police... well maybe longer. But, I’m really just talking current events leading up
To the election and beyond.

And just like that, they ain’t mad at the police anymore and want law abiding citizens to surrender the guns to the police, which they had just recently been protesting against.
To top that off, they are asking the President... the same president that they’ve been calling a Nazi, Russian collaborator, fascist and a white supremacist to take guns...

Opinions change rather quickly I’d say.
 
That's my first take on this. A justice society doesn't need significant civilian firearms ownership outside of some limited cases. That is the world view.
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Ironic that so many people in the U.S. who share that view also regard the agencies in charge of that justice as racist, classist, sexist, and whatever -ists are being used to primer over the idiot theories of Marx and Rousseau these days.
 
rickyrick said:
They sure can change, for the last almost two years they have been protesting and rioting against the police... well maybe longer. But, I’m really just talking current events leading up
To the election and beyond.

And just like that, they ain’t mad at the police anymore and want law abiding citizens to surrender the guns to the police, which they had just recently been protesting against.
To top that off, they are asking the President... the same president that they’ve been calling a Nazi, Russian collaborator, fascist and a white supremacist to take guns...

Opinions change rather quickly I’d say.
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I don't think they changed their mind. They just have a double standard. One for them and one for you.
 
I think this sums up current opinion or at least what is being taught.
 

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Personally we are on our way to losing this fight. This movement is growing. They are influencing how corporations set policy. Citibank announced they will not conduct any money transactions that involve high capacity magazines and will limit transactions on certain firearm purchases. There's a big march Tomorrow and another planned for April. Our education system is helping them by calling it civic discourse with no discussion on the right to bear arms or the 2nd amendment. Totally one sided and these kids think its the cool thing to do. The democrats and gun control folks have found their secret weapon.(teens) I'm worn out trying to explain our side of things. At least some people get it. I'm really mad at the NRA. The public relations battle is being lost rapidly and they do nothing. I don't think this storm is going to be ridden out. Be prepared for restrictions just like we have here in good old NY.
 
Look, I realize that if your experience with guns starts around 2000, this seems dark and foreboding. It isn't. Gunowners have overcome much worse. First, you must understand you are the target of a giant information operation that is first and foremost geared towards making you silent. Shame, fear, whatever - they want you to shut up about the Second Amendment more than they want your guns.

Hold fast. The only thing that has changed from the last 20 attempts to do this is the operation is markedly more professional. They've been honing their attempts to try and influence people and now they are trying to create the impression of this sudden groundswell of support; but it is all astroturf and it will fade. Contact your representatives and senators and tell them that the Bill of Rights exists to protect unpopular freedoms.

The attack is two-pronged. They want you to to e down and back down while they attempt to convince politicians this is a real grass-roots thing. You may not win every fight you get into; but you do lose every fight where you don't even show up.
 
Anti gun sentiment is about the highest I’ve seen it in quite some time. I try to remain optimistic but that is fairly difficult as state by state, locality by locality gun rights are falling and they aren’t being challenged in court.
I also feel that nothing will happen at the federal level any time soon. Gun restrictions are PASSING around the country.

Every time we go through one of these periods, people on the gun boards say “don’t worry, it will blow over like it does every time” but then gun restrictions get passed in some state distant to most. There’s a huge part of the population that can’t have a regular AR, can’t have a magazine that comes out. Gotta have a rediculous looking buttstocks, can’t hold More than x amount of rounds.
Gun owners that have been fully vetted are now considered to be amongst the lowest of citizens. But yet we just sit back and count on the second amendment.

Every influential entity is against us, but yet we think we can ride it out.
 
Very interesting thread. I'd say Yes, opinions can change--sometimes massively, and sometimes (relatively) quickly. Compare past generations' attitudes about race, divorce, premarital relations, same-sex marriage, etc. etc. to our own (obviously we don't ALL agree on these). And not all changes are necessarily for the best, of course.

I suppose the future re: gun rights is anyone's guess. The opinions that count the *most,* of course, are those of the nine people sitting on the hill in Wash, DC. Given POTUS and the likely stance of probable choice(s) to replace some of the aging members of SCOTUS, I'd wager that the "big picture" isn't all that bad. Just a guess and my .02.
 
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