Call me crazy...

Articap - I was thinking the same thing. The AR would be the easiest gun to build as a muzzleloader. You get a barrel and have a breechplug installed that is drilled and tapped for a nipple. You modify the bolt and firing pin for percussion caps and finally, you have to make a special capper & decapper as that tiny firing port would be hard to reach inside. Of course, with the AR you can always pull out the take-down pin and swing the lower receiver down to get access to the percussion cap. The AR's (California evil) 20-round magazine is converted into a cap box or a possibles box for your jag, stuck ball remover, spare nipples and nipple wrench. :D
 
The Que was about numbers

3,000 to 8,000 DYING, not dead. They died from inadequate medical care. Yes, they were wounded by tens, even hundreds, of thousands of lead bullets fired in massive volleys at massed troop concentrations. But they weren't killed by the bullets. They were simply incapacitated, and they died agonizing deaths, often from exsanguination, infection and gangrene.

That was somehow better?
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Mykeal, If you think lead poisening isn't dead one way or another, or there are no silmularities to gangerine by a saber, or by fesis on a punji stick. I haven't a clue as what you are attempting to project. As I never stated it was better or worse, Simply outragously high numbers. It was about Black Guns and a comparison to the Weapons during the War of Attrition I do believe.

SG
 
For less than the price of a custom "Evil Black Gun",
someone could dress up a factory Mossberg 500
with a pistol grip stock and then install one of their
factory production muzzle loader barrels to achieve the
appearance of an assault muzzle loader.
Also, for 2 years or so Mossberg produced a special
bullpup version of the Model 500 with a pistol grip stock,
but I don't know whether the BP barrel would fit it.
It probably would if the rear barrel sight was removed.

It would certainly look interesting to try it.

This first one has an after market muzzle device:

attachment.php


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=345326
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More pictures contained in the following page & thread:

mosseberg_500_bullpup.jpg


http://www.nisat.org/weapons pages linked/US/mossberg_model_500_bullpup_12.htm
Click to expand...


The top one is an airsoft clone & the bottom is the real deal:

s_dsc09354.jpg


mossbergbullpup1jpg3ca.jpg


mossbergbullpup2jpg4bz.jpg


http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=7898.0
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I checked with my sources and they dug up a photo of Doc White's "AK47" muzzleloader.
He has a web site, google him up and maybe he will make you one.
You could attach an AK mag with super glue and you would be all set.

ModelK504FirstTypeRedDotFullRight.jpg
 
Scrap5000 said:
You guys should def check out the link that arcticap posted, there is an AR Muzzleloader there, looks awesome. I would want a shorter barrel, tho, and...in smokeless!
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Then why have it?
To me it just makes it more complicated than it needs to be, I understand the Savage ML II but again it has it's purpose, having a ML assault type weapon complicates & detracts too far from what Muzzle Loading is all about.
 
If you want a custom made smokeless muzzle loading shotgun barrel, this outfit has been making custom length barrels to fit H&R single shot actions and will fit them to other guns too, including smoothbores. Just show them the money! :D

http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/


BTW, what's wrong with a smokeless muzzle loader? I haven't heard anyone question the desire of feller's that want smokeless conversion C&B cylinders for the Ruger or Remington C&B revolvers.
Check it all out right here:

http://www.westlakeengineering.com/4640/4694.html


Smokeless is cleaner and more potent, that's all. It's still a muzzle loader, and sort of like a modern blunderbus. When one considers the payload that can be generated from a large bore muzzle loading shotgun barrel using smokeless powder but without needing to make custom shotshell ammo, it sort of makes sense to create such a beast. What about the feller's that shoot the 4 bores?
Now that's an amazingly powerful payload for someone to be able load up with some buck and ball to use for home defense! :D
 
MuzzleLoader / Historical / Time Line

Muzzleloading Assault Rifles
1777 Charleville Carbine
qye0xt.jpg

1728 Fusil De Grenadier
2nty0ht.jpg

And a few more, I can see the differance can you?
aayxr4.jpg


Not to be confused with inline, or Black look alike modern assault rifles.
I only speak about my opinion, these toys are hidius looking and an insult to all the great styles and gunsmiths throughout history. Including all the present day gunsmiths carrying on the trade/art in the same tradition.
(My Opininion)
SG

I don't know why I bothered...some just may not get it.
 
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arcticap said:
BTW, what's wrong with a smokeless muzzle loader? I haven't heard anyone question the desire of feller's that want smokeless conversion C&B cylinders for the Ruger or Remington C&B revolvers.
Check it all out right here:

http://www.westlakeengineering.com/4640/4694.html
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If this question is pointed twords me, if you look at my posting you will see that I do mention a Smokeless Muzzle loader the Savage & I don't have an issue with them because they are intended to be a Muzzleloader with the ability to fire Smokeless powder safely but when you go into a complicated mechanism like the M16 design & attempt to turn it into a Muzzle Loader in my opinion it detracts from what the weapons actual function is & makes it Butt Ugly as all get out.
 
I haven't heard anyone question the desire of feller's that want smokeless conversion C&B cylinders for the Ruger or Remington C&B revolvers.
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That's a whole nother ball game. Those guns(conversions)actually existed. This monstrosity is an abhor ration but then I don't like inlines either.
 
Watch out Hawg. You're beginning to make sense to me.

Smokin Gun - fine pictures, thanks.

Turning an AR-15 into a bp muzzleloader, or even a smokeless muzzleloader, makes as much sense to me as modifying a Ruger Old Army to shoot cartridges. It's not wrong, but gee, they're both fine weapons doing what they're designed to do. Why mess that up?

My brother-in-law's step son-in-law (figure that one out) and I enjoy shooting together. He has an AR-15 he put together from various and sundry parts and pieces and I really enjoy shooting it. And he has just as much fun shooting my .54 Lyman GPR flinter. Neither one of us would ever imagine modifying either gun from what it does best, however.
 
Wow, I just don't get why so much animosity towards this idea :confused:

I just think it would be awesome to have an inline that looks like an AR...combine the old with the newer (and proven) design.

I'm not saying to get rid of older designs...I like them too! Why can't we live in a world with both designs? And whatever you feel like hunting with or shooting that day, that's the one you grab...

Aren't more options a good thing? This is America, by God! ;)
 
Scrap5000 said:
Wow, I just don't get why so much animosity towards this idea

I just think it would be awesome to have an inline that looks like an AR...combine the old with the newer (and proven) design.

I'm not saying to get rid of older designs...I like them too! Why can't we live in a world with both designs? And whatever you feel like hunting with or shooting that day, that's the one you grab...

Aren't more options a good thing? This is America, by God!
Click to expand...

The AR15/M16 & their variants are proven semi & full automatic weapons in caliber 5.56mm & others but with Black Powder even in modern inlines there is blow by in the area of the primer which will need cleaning just like the barrel which is why I personally think it'd be a bad idea because of the complexity of the internals of such weapons, otherwise it'd be a novelty for the few.

Yes it is America in which we on a daily basis have to keep an eye on the anti gun bills that come about & being as such most of the bills in the system are for the modern weapons not Muzzleloading "for the most part," if we start having our Muzzleloaders looking like the weapons that the Brady Bill Backers & such are gnashing at their teeth at on getting rid of, how long before they start wanting our Muzzleloaders?
 
Quote:
I don't know why I bothered...some just may not get it.

Unfortunately they never will.
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Funny thing is, he and some others are thinking the exact same thing about you two right about now. Some guys like fat girls, some like thin ones, some want them all, others don't want any. Personally, I don't think there's any gun prettier than a sxs hammer gun but I don't expect you to see it that way.

But, in response to Scrap5000's statement,
Wow, I just don't get why so much animosity towards this idea
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Raider2000 pretty much nailed it. ml shooters have enjoyed the benefit of the general public's ignorance for some time now. Most people think that these types of weapons are little more than rock chuckers that are both inaccurate and unreliable. As such, we have largely evaded regulation and even manage to get a special hunting season out of it.:D Frankly, we would like to keep it that way. Eventually, this ride is going to end but the longer we stay invisable the longer the ride.
 
Mr. MuzzleLoader WhosYourDaddy

Funny thing is, he and some others are thinking the exact same thing about you two right about now. Some guys like fat girls, some like thin ones, some want them all, others don't want any. Personally, I don't think there's any gun prettier than a sxs hammer gun but I don't expect you to see it that way.
Click to expand...

I see you are new here and am not giving you a hard time. But, exactly who did I say anything about and what was I thinking??? Look you don't know me and I don't know you..if you want I will sit right here and you tell me all you know about the History and Art of Muzzleloading. Then I can do the same if you like, or tell you all I know about Fat Girls and SxS Gauges. How's that sound? Then you can try to rag on me for what you know and not what you think you know about me.
Fair?
SG:cool:
 
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