Caliber and hearing (new question)
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zombietactics
New member
Correction noted and thank you ... I was being sloppy.
Model12Win
Moderator
This is one of the reasons why I'm currently looking into switching my home defense choice from a .357 magnum revolver to a .45 ACP automatic pistol.
There are a good number of subsonic .45 ACP defense loads that are excellent. I would assume all things being equal that the lower pressure .45 ACP round that also won't have a "sonic crack" might be easier on the ol' ears than the .357 revolver with it's high pressure supersonic loads.
Should be pretty effective on the muzzle end, too.
There are a good number of subsonic .45 ACP defense loads that are excellent. I would assume all things being equal that the lower pressure .45 ACP round that also won't have a "sonic crack" might be easier on the ol' ears than the .357 revolver with it's high pressure supersonic loads.
Should be pretty effective on the muzzle end, too.
i hate to be disagreeable, but shooting inside my house is surprisingly quiet, i accidntally shot a snub-nosed 38 loaded with hydra-shok in our small bedroom, it was loud but absorbed by the carpet/furniture etc, IT DIDNT EVEN WAKE UP THE WIFE OR CHILD UPSTAIRS, i was amazed at how quiet it was, so i had to do a lttle experimenting, waited til noone was home, set-up a target outside in my pool area, and did a couple shots from the middle of a carpeted, furnished room, out the window to the tarhet one story down
38spl,9x19,40cal all suprisingly quiet, no hearing protection required, all the sound is immediatly absorbed by the insulation of the carpet and furniture
357mag had a little whop to it, but not dis-orienting at all, if you have the opportunity, try it for yourself, youll be very suprised
on the other hand, when i need to test a couple new pistol loads, ill open the window in my basement(no carpet, no furniture) and shoot at a trap box, its super loud down there, loud to where it shocks your body(earplugs def required)
i thinkall if these rounds discussed would be easily tested for yourself, just dont tell the wife, but the neighbor likely wont notice what your doing, if they ask, you were just testing some primers to see if they were seating correctly
38spl,9x19,40cal all suprisingly quiet, no hearing protection required, all the sound is immediatly absorbed by the insulation of the carpet and furniture
357mag had a little whop to it, but not dis-orienting at all, if you have the opportunity, try it for yourself, youll be very suprised
on the other hand, when i need to test a couple new pistol loads, ill open the window in my basement(no carpet, no furniture) and shoot at a trap box, its super loud down there, loud to where it shocks your body(earplugs def required)
i thinkall if these rounds discussed would be easily tested for yourself, just dont tell the wife, but the neighbor likely wont notice what your doing, if they ask, you were just testing some primers to see if they were seating correctly
jason_iowa
New member
having had a 45acp unsuppressed round going of near my left ear I can assure you it can cause permanent hearing damage. While its annoying having a constant ringing in my left ear it does let me know I'm still alive.
This is an interesting discussion ...
... and skizzums brings up a good point-
Carpeting and furnishings, I would think, would make a difference.....
As would the location of the muzzle relative to the unprotected ears .....
If a gun is loud for the shooter, who has the gun pointing away from him ..... imagine how much louder it would be for someone with the gun pointing at them! Then again, if the shooter is concentrating on putting the front sight on the target, and squeezing the trigger properly, then the target will have more pressing concerns than the loud BANG!-BANG! noise.....
... and skizzums brings up a good point-
Carpeting and furnishings, I would think, would make a difference.....
As would the location of the muzzle relative to the unprotected ears .....
If a gun is loud for the shooter, who has the gun pointing away from him ..... imagine how much louder it would be for someone with the gun pointing at them! Then again, if the shooter is concentrating on putting the front sight on the target, and squeezing the trigger properly, then the target will have more pressing concerns than the loud BANG!-BANG! noise.....
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
True that but consider that there are myriad scenarios that may involve innocents "down range" of the defender. Also, being indoors, the concussion is pretty impressive in the whole space. My father once shot a .30-06 from his kitchen table at a deer on a hill behind his house. He was probably 4 feet from the window that he only had open 3-4". I was outside at the time and heard no more than "THOOMP!". I would have never known it was a gun shot. My step-mom, who was behind a closed door on a different floor, was less enthusiast. She swore her ears were ringing.
This may not be the exact topic here but a couple of companies make a 12ga shell that is a small flash bang that could aid in room clearing if followed up by 00 or multi defence loads . When it goes off there is a blinding light and deafing boom that you can direct where you want most of it catching some one off gaurd would give you a eadge .
FireForged
New member
ok this is just silly
Dragline45
New member
3 years ago I fired a single hot .357 round from a snub without hearing protection and as a result have slight high frequency hearing loss in my left ear as well as a permanent ringing in it. The .357 is notoriously loud, for this reason I ditched the .357 as a home defense/carry gun.
I ruint my hearing when I was a teen shooting 44 mag Black Hawk and Bench Rest rifles like .222 , .222 mag and 6mm Rem without hearing protection . Like many shooters I didn't know there was a problem until others told me . That kept me out of the Military and changed My carreer plans . I've worn hearing protection for the past 30 years and it gets a little better but that kinda damage never goes away .
It's silly to think anyone can get away shooting a gun without hearing protection, anywhere. It's one thing when you're fighting for your life, but there is still damage being done. Most people don't realize how loud a world we live in, and how many things can and will damage your hearing. Listening to music at a 'comfortable volume' can potentially damage your ears, so don't think shooting anything indoors will do any less damage. It doesn't matter the caliber or barrel length, any cartridge being fired that close to your head WILL damage your hearing, whether you think it is or not.
FireForged
New member
Tinnitus is a beast to live with... If I could go back I would certainly protect my ears alot better.
Noise
The 106 Recoilless Rifle is probably the loudest weapon in the US military arsenal. I have fired it hundreds of times with no hearing protection. The entire heavy weapons platoon is hearing handicapped, all to the same degree. At reunions we are accused of being drunk because we all shout at each other. My most painful issue came from firing a 1911 45 ACP in a tunnel near Tam Ky in Vietnam. That felt like someone was shoving chopsticks into my ears.
I currently use standard pressure HST2 Federal 147gr IN 9 mm in a G19 for HD.
The 106 Recoilless Rifle is probably the loudest weapon in the US military arsenal. I have fired it hundreds of times with no hearing protection. The entire heavy weapons platoon is hearing handicapped, all to the same degree. At reunions we are accused of being drunk because we all shout at each other. My most painful issue came from firing a 1911 45 ACP in a tunnel near Tam Ky in Vietnam. That felt like someone was shoving chopsticks into my ears.
I currently use standard pressure HST2 Federal 147gr IN 9 mm in a G19 for HD.
Huh? Most .38spl loads ARE subsonic. I'm sure there are supersonic loads. Especially in +P stuff, but generally most .38 special loads ARE subsonic.
A brief google search and the fastest .38 special I found was 110 @ 1216fps. Depending on conditions it's in the transonic area at that speed.
The bullet will not hit them before the sound of it reaches them, but it doesn't matter anyway. It happens so quickly you wouldn't have any real time to react anyway. The bullet would hit you before your brain has time to process and react to the sound, but the sound will likely reach them before the bullet.
+P+ with a light bullet, 110 grains, and the velocity is still subsonic in most conditions.
A brief google search and the fastest .38 special I found was 110 @ 1216fps. Depending on conditions it's in the transonic area at that speed.
The bullet will not hit them before the sound of it reaches them, but it doesn't matter anyway. It happens so quickly you wouldn't have any real time to react anyway. The bullet would hit you before your brain has time to process and react to the sound, but the sound will likely reach them before the bullet.
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Considering that the fastest possible human reaction times are in the neighborhood of 0.1 seconds and a bullet traveling at even 300fps will cover 30 feet in that time, the whole question of the person reacting to the sound of a gunshot is more than a little silly. There's no concern about damaging the targets hearing either, since we're already trying to shoot them.
However, the question of loudness on the receiving end is valid as there's always the possibility of an innocent being close downrange.
However, the question of loudness on the receiving end is valid as there's always the possibility of an innocent being close downrange.
357's are LOUD
Yeah, that would have been seriously bad. Seems like there might be an interesting story there.
I had a similar incident - except, maybe not quite as bad. I once fired off my 357 (Python, 6") with a full-house Remington 125 JHP at a range, without hearing protection. It was outdoors, but I still had the stall walls on each side of me to reflect the sound right back into my ears. It was an awful experience.
I have tinnitus these days. Probably not a coincidence.
I've been dumb enough to fire off a few handguns outdoors without hearing protection. And to me - by a good margin - the 357 magnum seems to be the loudest handgun. Even louder than a 44 mag. There's something about the 357 - and it's all frequencies - the full spectrum.
This is a major reason why the 45 ACP is my first choice in home protection. The 45 ACP has a lower pitch to it. And although still thoroughly loud, it's nothing like a 357 mag, or 10mm, or even 40. It won't obliterate your hearing althogether in an indoors SD situation.
Yeah, that would have been seriously bad. Seems like there might be an interesting story there.
I had a similar incident - except, maybe not quite as bad. I once fired off my 357 (Python, 6") with a full-house Remington 125 JHP at a range, without hearing protection. It was outdoors, but I still had the stall walls on each side of me to reflect the sound right back into my ears. It was an awful experience.
I have tinnitus these days. Probably not a coincidence.
I've been dumb enough to fire off a few handguns outdoors without hearing protection. And to me - by a good margin - the 357 magnum seems to be the loudest handgun. Even louder than a 44 mag. There's something about the 357 - and it's all frequencies - the full spectrum.
This is a major reason why the 45 ACP is my first choice in home protection. The 45 ACP has a lower pitch to it. And although still thoroughly loud, it's nothing like a 357 mag, or 10mm, or even 40. It won't obliterate your hearing althogether in an indoors SD situation.
Willie Lowman
New member
Now if we are talking about really loud...
A few years back at a private machine gun shoot I watched an old man (at least 80) dialing in the T&E on his Browning M2. He fired the first burst and leapt up to go find his forgotten ear muffs. It was the fastest I saw that old timer move that day!
My grandfather was an anti aircraft gunner on the DD512 Guest. He had some stories about being to close to the 5"38s when they went off.
A few years back at a private machine gun shoot I watched an old man (at least 80) dialing in the T&E on his Browning M2. He fired the first burst and leapt up to go find his forgotten ear muffs. It was the fastest I saw that old timer move that day!
My grandfather was an anti aircraft gunner on the DD512 Guest. He had some stories about being to close to the 5"38s when they went off.