CA is almost there. Microstamping bill signed into law

This is basically a total gun ban for California. After all it is up to the gun manufactures to develop microstamping technology. I don't think they will. I think they will tell California to take a flying leap. Do you really think companies like Taurus are going to put firing pins in their guns that cost more to develop than the the rest of the gun? It is cheaper to just quit selling there and let all the California residents acquire their guns illegally out of state.
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Naw, they will just up the price for weapons with this technology by 30%.

This is the goal of the Brady Bunch. Since they can't stamp out the 2nd amendment, they are going to make guns so expensive that unless purchased illegally, no law-abiding citizen can afford one. Then if they do buy one illegally, they become a felon.
 
This is the goal of the Brady Bunch. Since they can't stamp out the 2nd amendment, they are going to make guns so expensive that...
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no gun shop in the state can stay in business and everybody will be buying guns on the black market.
 
This is basically a total gun ban for California. After all it is up to the gun manufactures to develop microstamping technology. I don't think they will. I think they will tell California to take a flying leap. Do you really think companies like Taurus are going to put firing pins in their guns that cost more to develop than the the rest of the gun? It is cheaper to just quit selling there and let all the California residents acquire their guns illegally out of state.
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100% coorect. This is of course the goal of the legislation. It also will have the biggest impact on the lower income groups. I would think it time for the NRA to court some lower income level pro 2A members of the Black community. This is a perfect example of legislation that unfairly impacts a single racial group and can be challenged on the grounds of civil rights.

Of course if there are no guns available we can win on that as well. If the SCOTUS decision on Parker comes back as an individual right this legislation can be shown to deny that right. It is like saying you have the right to vote... as long as you first defy gravity by flapping your arms. It attaches a condition to the right which is impossible for the mass majority of Americans to comply with, essentially denying the right.

This is bad legislation and can be easily attacked.
 
Did someone say "Brady Bunch"? Lo and behold, here's the email I got from them today:

VICTORY! Landmark Gun Legislation Signed Into Law!
Gov. Schwarzenegger Signs Innovative Bill to Reduce Gun Violence

Dear *****,

We've had a major victory in California! Your Brady Campaign, its California Chapters, and many allies — including law enforcement — worked hard to pass the Crime Gun Identification Act of 2007. And your support helped make it happen.

This ground-breaking law will allow police to match bullet shells found at a crime scene to the handgun that fired the bullets. Law enforcement will now have new crime-solving tools to more quickly apprehend armed criminals and gang members.

Click here to read more about this innovative microstamping legislation.
Click here to read the New York Times editorial on the issue.
This tremendous victory in California comes on the heels of passing other life-saving legislation this year in Maine, Illinois, Virginia, and Connecticut that will prevent gun violence. Thank you for your continued support and activism to help us pass sensible gun laws.

We need your continued support to pass similar legislation in other states. Please click here to give a gift of $35 to support our efforts to pass strong state guns laws across the country.

And help us spread the word: click here to forward this email to friends, family, and colleagues.

Thank you for helping to reduce gun violence in America!

Sincerely,

Sarah Brady, Chair
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And, here is said NY Times editorial:

EDITORIAL; An Opportunity for Mr. Schwarzenegger
Published: September 24, 2007

California's Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, has a laudable record of splitting with his party's orthodoxy to support pathbreaking state initiatives on global warming and stem cell research. Now Mr. Schwarzenegger has a chance to make Californians safer, and set a new national standard, by signing into law the Crime Gun Identification Act of 2007.

The measure would make California the first state to require that all new semiautomatic weapons be equipped with technology known as microstamping, which imprints microscopic markings as a gun fires. That would allow police to quickly match bullet casings found at a crime scene to the weapon that shot them, a valuable new tool for solving gun crimes and for deterring gun traffickers who supply violent criminals.


The technology is relatively inexpensive. And the new law gives manufacturers until 2010 to retool. Mike Feuer, the Democratic Assemblyman who is the author of the bill, notes that more than 40 percent of homicides in California go unsolved yearly for lack of evidence. The national record is not much better, explaining the bill's broad support from law enforcement. There is no real explanation, save the fierce opposition of the gun lobby, for why no Republican voted for the bill.

California's embrace of the innovative crime-fighting tool over reflexive gun lobby opposition would set an example for other states, and also for Congress, which certainly needs more than a push. Nearly six months after the massacre at Virginia Tech, a bill to tighten the system for preventing people with serious mental problems from purchasing guns still languishes.

For California, the new law offers a real chance to save lives and bring more perpetrators of violent crime to justice. Mr. Schwarzenegger's choice should be easy.
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How many gun-related crimes are committed with new guns? If a news report of a crime mentions the gun used, which is rare, it seems to be something that hasn't even been manufactured for several years. This summer I read of a murder committed with a Browning .380 that was last produced 10 years ago.

Further, my understanding is that most guns used in crimes are stolen, and come not from residences (4% from what I've read) but from burglaries of pawn shops and struggles with police (generally 30%-40% for each group). Pawn shops tend to sell old guns. IOW, pre-microstamping guns.

So how exactly will these new miracle guns get into the hands of criminals?

Seems like the only people impacted by the new guns will be police and law abiding citizens. Meanwhile, criminals will continue using old guns, just as they do now. So police officers who shoot BGs will have microstamped brass, and law-abiding citizens at the range will have microstamped brass, but murderers will keep blasting away with the same old non-microstramping guns they have now.

Microstamping won't do jack.

Given what's happened in the past when the gun industry has surrendered to political correctness and related idiocy, I'm in favor of boycotting manufacturers who capitulate to this latest dictate. When the police in Cali can't get new guns because the new guns don't have microstamping crap in them, you'll get pressure to abandon this stupidity from one of the few pressure groups that CA pols listen to (they certainly don't listen to their subjects ... er, citizens).
 
When the police in Cali can't get new guns because the new guns don't have microstamping crap in them,
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The police in Cali are exempt from the microstamping crap. The only way this is going to impact them is if we can force manufacturers not to sell normal guns to the California government. I'm not sure we can bring to bear that effective a boycott, though it would be worth giving it a try.

I'm afraid the only realistic way to beat this back, at this point, is by getting the Supreme court to admit that the 2nd guarantees an individual right, and not a second class, "we'll apply rational basis and call it strict scrutiny" right like the 5th circuit did in Emerson.

California is past the tipping point now, we don't have enough political clout there anymore to stop the gun banners from doing whatever they feel like.
 
As I understand it, semi-autos are the only type affected by the law. So, if revolvers are NOT considered "semi-automatic" even though they are in fact a form of semi-automatic, then here's what's going to happen over time after the law goes into effect in 2010:

1. Tons of revolvers will be sold in CA. Not only will they be popular with the law-abiding, to get a cheaper/better value handgun, they will also be popular with criminals (the only thing easier than filing down the firing pin of your glock gat is using a revolver and not doing anything - not only do you skirt the brass-with-microstamping-trail-that-leads-back-to-you issue, you also skirt the brass-with-your-fingerprints-that-leads-back-to-you-issue.).

2. Most of the semi-auto handgun manufacturers (initially, at least) will not tool up to comply with the law, fearing the added expense will cause demand to sour on an already razor-thin-margin product, coupled with the fact that there's a potential prospect that in 1, 2, 3, or 5 years' time, all handguns will be banned in that state anyway.

3. LEOs in Calif, being exempt from the law (disgusting), will choose certain makes and models for their officers from makers in category #2 above, who did not undertake the hassle and expense to microstamp, to sell to the general public. When the criminal element figures this out, they will steal more of their guns from cops than from Joe Q. Public (the only thing better for a crook than buying a semi and filing the pin, or buying a revolver, is STEALING a semi from a cop and not doing a darned other thing). As a result, I fear that this will result in more officer murders to obtain their handguns.

4. SOME gun makers will comply with microstamping, to capture the large market there in Calif. Then, if other states follow suit and pass similar laws (probably will, but you never know), then the market grows, and other gun makers from category #2 above then join the early birds from category #4 here. Then we'll have a despicable nationwide trend going here that will do virtually nothing to help solve crimes (quite possibly literally not help solve a single crime - we'll see), and guns with cost a third again as much as they do now. Except to LEOAs, who will still get cheap guns.
 
Re: Criminals with revolvers -

The last thing we want is criminals with magnum revolvers.

The revolver is the domain of the handgun hunter. In general, revolvers are more powerful than autos. Were I a cop in some rat-infested quarter of LA, I would rather that the gangbangers were carrying their 9's than a bunch of 357mags and 44mags, with the vain ones carrying the S&W snubby X-Frame monsters.

357/44/45LC/454/460/500 are more likely to pierce vests than 9mm/40/45acp.

Criminals will seek out revolvers with excess of 1000 ft/lbs of energy. They will use these revolvers to kill police, then take the police automatics for their other crimes. They will leave no revolver brass behind for tracing, and the auto brass left behind traces only back to the dead cop.

Hunting revolvers will be banned next in DPRK. T/C pistols too.
 
Safe Place?

You have to look at the other side of this. With all its anti-gun type laws California is such a safe place to live. Peace and tranquility blanket such areas as Downtown Oakland and East Los Angeles.

Here in the Silver State we only have a fraction of the gun laws of our neighbor. The dangers on our streets pale in comparison. Folks actually get to walk in public with guns. Thank God our court house has the Ten Commandments posted in front of the building otherwise total anarchy would take over.;)
 
If they don't have to tool up till 2010 They just created a gun buying frenzy in California.

By exempting police firearms from micro stamping I wonders whose guns the ganbangers will go after 2010? :rolleyes:. I just read an article in the news the other day where a gang was forming a list of police officer addresses.

The next biggest black market will be in pre micro stamping guns.

Do gang bangers and criminals care how much a gun costs? Not if they sell drugs..just mere chump change to them.

I like the representative who introduce the bill saying that 40 percent of the homicides go unsolved. If he thinks microstamping is going to make a serious dent in it he will be disappointed. The next law will be to ban any firearm that cant microstamp a casing and on and on till they are all gone.

When California finally bans all lawful citizens from owning firearms and crime and murder is still happening they will have to empty the prisons of criminals and incarcerate the law abiding citizens for protection.

We are fixing to have some pretty good jobs opening up at the refinery here in SE Texas in a year or two might want to move out of California now :D Maybe I should open up a firearms boarding house for you California folks.

If the gun manufacturers had any cojones they would boycott law enforcement sales to California starting now.
 
It's actually in the best interest of the criminal to have a MSd gun to use in his/her crime, because it'll never get back to them, only the original owner will have the responsibility to prove their innocence.

I also think that MSing should only be for LEOs, it sure would make a shooting investigation easy if they can prove who fired what and where from the shell casings. If everyone in a shootout is shooting .40, then the stamped casings would indicate the truth in the report.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
 
The police in Cali are exempt from the microstamping crap.
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I didn't know that.

Interesting. I've read that over 30% of stolen handguns come from cop/BG encounters where the BGs steal the cop's gun. If still true, one of the biggest channels for BGs getting guns is the best way for a BG to get around the microstamping effort.

On second thought, it sounds perfectly in-tune with CA's approach to crime: Make life more difficult for law-abiding citizens; leave the poor felons alone.
 
RE:Eghad

Your generous offer to Californians is wonderful. This way they can just bypass Nevada and take up residence in the Lone Star State. Nevada is a big ugly place anyway. Texas is much better.:D
 
Is this really all that different than the spent cartridge that ships with handguns these days? Isn't the forensics advanced to the point where they can tell what gun a spent cartridge came from anyway?

In fact, it could be argued that this law actually makes it less bothersome than having a spent cartridge that you have to send to the local cops to keep on file. I wonder if the manufacturers are behind this as a way to make a little money, you know raise the cost and point to this as justification, and it might cost less than shipping a spent cart.
 
CA micro stamping and the US constitution..

Dear fellow gunnies:

Now, I would never claim to be a legal scholar much less a student of the US Constitution, therefore, I am asking the legal scholars who frequent this forum to examine this law, at least, at the onset to see if is amenable to some types of challenges.

While gun ownership is not a "fundemental right" so such challenge would not have productive result. However, If one ( of the gun manufacturers) was to take a run at it from the angle that the law is violative of the Commerce Clause, would that have more plausible chance of success?

Common, there has to be a way..There has to be a limit to this buffooneries..
 
Is this really all that different than the spent cartridge that ships with handguns these days? Isn't the forensics advanced to the point where they can tell what gun a spent cartridge came from anyway?
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You still have to tie the shooter to the weapon and the crime scene. If a pistol with microstamping was used in a crime but it was stolen from the owner you may be SOL.
 
If one ( of the gun manufacturers) was to take a run at it from the angle that the law is violative of the Commerce Clause, would that have more plausible chance of success?
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That's a GREAT angle.

This is California usurping a Federal power of interstate commerce.

California COULD regulate gun manufacturers in California, and the sale of those guns, but IMO (IANAL) it seems wrong for a state to make arbitrary manufacturing demands for the citizen consumption market.

Wasn't there a case involving tires back when cars were first invented? Something about one of the southern states regulating that all cars there had to have one brand of tires? That sounds like good precedent, IMO. Maybe I'm just misremembering a conversation, though.
 
No manufacturer is going to take this to court, they will just add the minimal cost to the cost of the weapon, add a few percentage points for additional profit and move on. I was serious when I suggested that the manufacturers were behind this. In fact I would further suggest that it is large manufacturers behind this, they can afford the tooling so this law would improve their competitive advantage over someone like seecamp.
 
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