RadekSkylark
New member
Hallo guys.
I'm from Latvia and I'm currently in the process of getting my CCW license - I really hope I'll get it.
I've been thinking about what handgun to buy as my first handgun. It will be used as a self defense weapon - will try to carry it 99% of the time. As the process of getting CCW here in Latvia is quite expensive and as I'm not sure I want to invest a lot of money into my first handgun (as I have no experience with guns), I was thinking of going for some kind of budget handgun.
Here in Latvia the laws are strict:
- One needs to carry a handgun without a round in the chamber with enabled external safety (if gun has one) and with hammer at rest. This means that I'll need to rack the slide of the pistol to set it up for shooting if needed;
- One needs to carry not more than two full magazines of ammo, that is, on in the handgun and another in the holster;
- One is allowed to use only FMJ rounds (no JPH - hallow points);
- One carries only calibers not larger that 9mm in the diameter (basically options are limited to .380 ACP, 9x18 Makarov, 9x19 Parabellum, .38 Special and .357 Magnum).
As for carry environment - I work in office and usually wear tucked in long sleeve shirts (as the ones you wear with a suit) so it seems that I'll be trying to use an IWB holster which will allow tucking, or maybe some kind of holster shirt or something similar. Maybe I'll add a jacket or coat to my wardrobe and will use also a shoulder holster. Weather here in Latvia varies significantly: from -25 C (-13 F) in winter to +30 C (+86 F) in summer, so I will be wearing quite thick gloves in winter and thin gloves in autumn and spring.
For now my options for handgun selection seem to be:
*Pistols:
1) Makarov 9x18 - huge amount of used weapons - costs about 80$ for one in normal condition and around 100-120$ for one in really good condition;
2) Walther PK380 9x17 - used around 310$, new around 460$;
3) SigSauer P230 9x17 - used for around 195-230$;
4) Beretta 85F 9x17 - used, but as new for 460$;
5) Beretta 84F 9x17 - used for around 460$;
6) Sig Sauer P232 9x17 - used for 345$;
4) S&W MP9 Shield 9x19 - new for 750$;
5) Walther PPX 9x19 - new for 670$;
6) Walther CCP 9x19 - new for 710$
7) Glock 42 9x17 - new for 680$;
8) Glock 43 9x19 - new for 785$;
9) Glock 19 9x19 - new for 785$;
10) Glock 26 9x19 - new for 830$.
*Revolvers (I didn't think about them, but guys on another forum told me that it could be a good idea to carry a loaded and ready to shoot DA revolver, if law allowes it, or even a revolver with one of the chambers empty - the one which is aligned with the barrel - to complie with law, if empty chamber is required for revolvers as well):
1) Rossi M88 .38 Spl - as new for 345$ (2" barrel, 5 rounds, rubber grip);
2) Taurus (don't know the model - black color, pretty much like the one in (4)) .38 Spl - as new for 260$ (2" barrel, 6 rounds, wood grip);
3) Taurus (don't know the model - seems to be made out of stainless steel) .357 Mag - used for around 345$ (3" barrel, 6 rounds);
4) Taurus (don't knwo the model, possibly 85 - looks like this one http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/a...-older-taurus-85-compared-new-85-guns-004.jpg) - quite used for 115$.
On the ammo:
9x17, 9x18 and 9x19 costs pretty much the same - around 0,25-0,30$/pc. 38 Spl. costs around 0,40$/pc and .357 Magnum around 0,45$/pc.
Here are some of my thoughs so far:
- If I do buy a revolver there will be problems finding gear for it and I will need to buy it online from US;
- If I do buy a revolver with 5 round cylinder and I'll need to carry with one chamber empty (I'll confirm this) I'm left with only 4 rounds in the cylinder, thus with total of 9 rounds - do you think that this is not a problem (if we consider revolvers in first place only because the empty chamber rule to avoid me being unable to rack slide fast enough in one handed operetaion situation)?
- After watching few ballistics videos on youtube and thinking about the fact that I would only be allowed to carry and use FMJ ammo and also the fact that law states: "one should not fire a handgun if one cannot guarantee the safety of those who are not intended to be shot" I've thought about what caliber should I carry. To me it now seems obvious that I would not want to carry most powerful rounds (caliber) available to me because of the possibility that when I fire my weapon on the target in a self defense situation I could possibly injure someone innocent somewhere behind my target (possibly 50-100 yards away) due to over-penetration, which of course would mean extra responsibility in the court of law and guilt about harming someone innocent. So from this perspective I'm starting to think that my best bet would be to carry 9x17, as it will have enough stopping power (if I can hit the target of course) and will minimize the potential penetration decreasing the risk of injuring someone behind the target due to over-penetration. This idea of mine is based on the fact that FMJ will penetrate way better that JHP and thus even small calibers will tend to over-penetrate. All FMJ in general will leave permanent wound channels only few times the size of their actual diameter which means that the permanent damage to a target would be quite similar from FMJ .380 ACP, 9x18, 9x19, .38 Special and maybe even .357 Magnum. What do you guys think about this (I maybe incorrect on some of these subjects but I think the general idea should be correct)?
The main question in the end is - what handgun should I buy as my first? I would love to stay within a budget of 200-460$, but if there are really good reasons for me to invest more, I would see what I can do.
Thanks! Hope you'll share some knowledge!
I'm from Latvia and I'm currently in the process of getting my CCW license - I really hope I'll get it.
I've been thinking about what handgun to buy as my first handgun. It will be used as a self defense weapon - will try to carry it 99% of the time. As the process of getting CCW here in Latvia is quite expensive and as I'm not sure I want to invest a lot of money into my first handgun (as I have no experience with guns), I was thinking of going for some kind of budget handgun.
Here in Latvia the laws are strict:
- One needs to carry a handgun without a round in the chamber with enabled external safety (if gun has one) and with hammer at rest. This means that I'll need to rack the slide of the pistol to set it up for shooting if needed;
- One needs to carry not more than two full magazines of ammo, that is, on in the handgun and another in the holster;
- One is allowed to use only FMJ rounds (no JPH - hallow points);
- One carries only calibers not larger that 9mm in the diameter (basically options are limited to .380 ACP, 9x18 Makarov, 9x19 Parabellum, .38 Special and .357 Magnum).
As for carry environment - I work in office and usually wear tucked in long sleeve shirts (as the ones you wear with a suit) so it seems that I'll be trying to use an IWB holster which will allow tucking, or maybe some kind of holster shirt or something similar. Maybe I'll add a jacket or coat to my wardrobe and will use also a shoulder holster. Weather here in Latvia varies significantly: from -25 C (-13 F) in winter to +30 C (+86 F) in summer, so I will be wearing quite thick gloves in winter and thin gloves in autumn and spring.
For now my options for handgun selection seem to be:
*Pistols:
1) Makarov 9x18 - huge amount of used weapons - costs about 80$ for one in normal condition and around 100-120$ for one in really good condition;
2) Walther PK380 9x17 - used around 310$, new around 460$;
3) SigSauer P230 9x17 - used for around 195-230$;
4) Beretta 85F 9x17 - used, but as new for 460$;
5) Beretta 84F 9x17 - used for around 460$;
6) Sig Sauer P232 9x17 - used for 345$;
4) S&W MP9 Shield 9x19 - new for 750$;
5) Walther PPX 9x19 - new for 670$;
6) Walther CCP 9x19 - new for 710$
7) Glock 42 9x17 - new for 680$;
8) Glock 43 9x19 - new for 785$;
9) Glock 19 9x19 - new for 785$;
10) Glock 26 9x19 - new for 830$.
*Revolvers (I didn't think about them, but guys on another forum told me that it could be a good idea to carry a loaded and ready to shoot DA revolver, if law allowes it, or even a revolver with one of the chambers empty - the one which is aligned with the barrel - to complie with law, if empty chamber is required for revolvers as well):
1) Rossi M88 .38 Spl - as new for 345$ (2" barrel, 5 rounds, rubber grip);
2) Taurus (don't know the model - black color, pretty much like the one in (4)) .38 Spl - as new for 260$ (2" barrel, 6 rounds, wood grip);
3) Taurus (don't know the model - seems to be made out of stainless steel) .357 Mag - used for around 345$ (3" barrel, 6 rounds);
4) Taurus (don't knwo the model, possibly 85 - looks like this one http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/a...-older-taurus-85-compared-new-85-guns-004.jpg) - quite used for 115$.
On the ammo:
9x17, 9x18 and 9x19 costs pretty much the same - around 0,25-0,30$/pc. 38 Spl. costs around 0,40$/pc and .357 Magnum around 0,45$/pc.
Here are some of my thoughs so far:
- If I do buy a revolver there will be problems finding gear for it and I will need to buy it online from US;
- If I do buy a revolver with 5 round cylinder and I'll need to carry with one chamber empty (I'll confirm this) I'm left with only 4 rounds in the cylinder, thus with total of 9 rounds - do you think that this is not a problem (if we consider revolvers in first place only because the empty chamber rule to avoid me being unable to rack slide fast enough in one handed operetaion situation)?
- After watching few ballistics videos on youtube and thinking about the fact that I would only be allowed to carry and use FMJ ammo and also the fact that law states: "one should not fire a handgun if one cannot guarantee the safety of those who are not intended to be shot" I've thought about what caliber should I carry. To me it now seems obvious that I would not want to carry most powerful rounds (caliber) available to me because of the possibility that when I fire my weapon on the target in a self defense situation I could possibly injure someone innocent somewhere behind my target (possibly 50-100 yards away) due to over-penetration, which of course would mean extra responsibility in the court of law and guilt about harming someone innocent. So from this perspective I'm starting to think that my best bet would be to carry 9x17, as it will have enough stopping power (if I can hit the target of course) and will minimize the potential penetration decreasing the risk of injuring someone behind the target due to over-penetration. This idea of mine is based on the fact that FMJ will penetrate way better that JHP and thus even small calibers will tend to over-penetrate. All FMJ in general will leave permanent wound channels only few times the size of their actual diameter which means that the permanent damage to a target would be quite similar from FMJ .380 ACP, 9x18, 9x19, .38 Special and maybe even .357 Magnum. What do you guys think about this (I maybe incorrect on some of these subjects but I think the general idea should be correct)?
The main question in the end is - what handgun should I buy as my first? I would love to stay within a budget of 200-460$, but if there are really good reasons for me to invest more, I would see what I can do.
Thanks! Hope you'll share some knowledge!