Buying my first handgun - help needed!

R

RadekSkylark

New member
Hallo guys.

I'm from Latvia and I'm currently in the process of getting my CCW license - I really hope I'll get it.

I've been thinking about what handgun to buy as my first handgun. It will be used as a self defense weapon - will try to carry it 99% of the time. As the process of getting CCW here in Latvia is quite expensive and as I'm not sure I want to invest a lot of money into my first handgun (as I have no experience with guns), I was thinking of going for some kind of budget handgun.

Here in Latvia the laws are strict:

- One needs to carry a handgun without a round in the chamber with enabled external safety (if gun has one) and with hammer at rest. This means that I'll need to rack the slide of the pistol to set it up for shooting if needed;
- One needs to carry not more than two full magazines of ammo, that is, on in the handgun and another in the holster;
- One is allowed to use only FMJ rounds (no JPH - hallow points);
- One carries only calibers not larger that 9mm in the diameter (basically options are limited to .380 ACP, 9x18 Makarov, 9x19 Parabellum, .38 Special and .357 Magnum).

As for carry environment - I work in office and usually wear tucked in long sleeve shirts (as the ones you wear with a suit) so it seems that I'll be trying to use an IWB holster which will allow tucking, or maybe some kind of holster shirt or something similar. Maybe I'll add a jacket or coat to my wardrobe and will use also a shoulder holster. Weather here in Latvia varies significantly: from -25 C (-13 F) in winter to +30 C (+86 F) in summer, so I will be wearing quite thick gloves in winter and thin gloves in autumn and spring.

For now my options for handgun selection seem to be:
*Pistols:
1) Makarov 9x18 - huge amount of used weapons - costs about 80$ for one in normal condition and around 100-120$ for one in really good condition;
2) Walther PK380 9x17 - used around 310$, new around 460$;
3) SigSauer P230 9x17 - used for around 195-230$;
4) Beretta 85F 9x17 - used, but as new for 460$;
5) Beretta 84F 9x17 - used for around 460$;
6) Sig Sauer P232 9x17 - used for 345$;
4) S&W MP9 Shield 9x19 - new for 750$;
5) Walther PPX 9x19 - new for 670$;
6) Walther CCP 9x19 - new for 710$
7) Glock 42 9x17 - new for 680$;
8) Glock 43 9x19 - new for 785$;
9) Glock 19 9x19 - new for 785$;
10) Glock 26 9x19 - new for 830$.
*Revolvers (I didn't think about them, but guys on another forum told me that it could be a good idea to carry a loaded and ready to shoot DA revolver, if law allowes it, or even a revolver with one of the chambers empty - the one which is aligned with the barrel - to complie with law, if empty chamber is required for revolvers as well):
1) Rossi M88 .38 Spl - as new for 345$ (2" barrel, 5 rounds, rubber grip);
2) Taurus (don't know the model - black color, pretty much like the one in (4)) .38 Spl - as new for 260$ (2" barrel, 6 rounds, wood grip);
3) Taurus (don't know the model - seems to be made out of stainless steel) .357 Mag - used for around 345$ (3" barrel, 6 rounds);
4) Taurus (don't knwo the model, possibly 85 - looks like this one http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/a...-older-taurus-85-compared-new-85-guns-004.jpg) - quite used for 115$.

On the ammo:
9x17, 9x18 and 9x19 costs pretty much the same - around 0,25-0,30$/pc. 38 Spl. costs around 0,40$/pc and .357 Magnum around 0,45$/pc.

Here are some of my thoughs so far:
- If I do buy a revolver there will be problems finding gear for it and I will need to buy it online from US;
- If I do buy a revolver with 5 round cylinder and I'll need to carry with one chamber empty (I'll confirm this) I'm left with only 4 rounds in the cylinder, thus with total of 9 rounds - do you think that this is not a problem (if we consider revolvers in first place only because the empty chamber rule to avoid me being unable to rack slide fast enough in one handed operetaion situation)?
- After watching few ballistics videos on youtube and thinking about the fact that I would only be allowed to carry and use FMJ ammo and also the fact that law states: "one should not fire a handgun if one cannot guarantee the safety of those who are not intended to be shot" I've thought about what caliber should I carry. To me it now seems obvious that I would not want to carry most powerful rounds (caliber) available to me because of the possibility that when I fire my weapon on the target in a self defense situation I could possibly injure someone innocent somewhere behind my target (possibly 50-100 yards away) due to over-penetration, which of course would mean extra responsibility in the court of law and guilt about harming someone innocent. So from this perspective I'm starting to think that my best bet would be to carry 9x17, as it will have enough stopping power (if I can hit the target of course) and will minimize the potential penetration decreasing the risk of injuring someone behind the target due to over-penetration. This idea of mine is based on the fact that FMJ will penetrate way better that JHP and thus even small calibers will tend to over-penetrate. All FMJ in general will leave permanent wound channels only few times the size of their actual diameter which means that the permanent damage to a target would be quite similar from FMJ .380 ACP, 9x18, 9x19, .38 Special and maybe even .357 Magnum. What do you guys think about this (I maybe incorrect on some of these subjects but I think the general idea should be correct)?

The main question in the end is - what handgun should I buy as my first? I would love to stay within a budget of 200-460$, but if there are really good reasons for me to invest more, I would see what I can do.

Thanks! Hope you'll share some knowledge!
 
Makarov 100 out of 100 times.
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While you are going through the apparently long process of obtaining a permit, you could save up the high cost of a Gen 4 Glock 19.

In my opinion, the G19 is the best fighting pistol in the world.
I carry mine always, have it on me now, in a modified pocket in my old English dressing gown/robe?

There are advantages to carrying hardball (mil-spec ammunition) shooting some criminal in the shoulder, from the side, the bullet will drill through lots of bone, better than a hollow point.
 
*Revolvers (I didn't think about them, but guys on another forum told me that it could be a good idea to carry a loaded and ready to shoot DA revolver, if law allowes it, or even a revolver with one of the chambers empty - the one which is aligned with the barrel - to complie with law, if empty chamber is required for revolvers as well):
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I have to agree with the guys on the other forum. Even if you have to have it unloaded at the hammer and limit yourself to 4 rounds I would take that over a auto that I had to pull out and chamber a round before use.
 
Since you can't carry with a round chambered, there's no point in DA/SA or SAO. I would probably choose the Glock 19.

Or, in your case since you would need to rack the slide on an auto, I'd might choose a revolver. If you can get your hands on a 2.5" S&W 627 (Stainless 8-shot .357), that would be my choice.
 
Just a thought, hornady critical defense is not hollow point ammunition but it does expand. Would probably be your best bet for carry.

Also, I don't like the idea of carrying only 4 rounds in a revolver....I would probably carry an auto like a Glock 19 even if I had to leave the chamber empty because of capacity. It might be a weird solution to your problem but- carry two guns? A standard capacity auto on the belt and a revolver in the coat pocket? So that you could immediately access the ready to fire revolver in a "must have gun now" scenario but also have the capacity of the auto on hand.
 
Adizzle19: We cannot carry bullets that expand (I just said hallow point for convenience - I didn't know that there are other bullet types that also expand. That is weird solution, but it could work though - will think about it.

P.S. Thanks for answers everyone.
 
That is a tricky situation. I think if it were me, I would choose the makarov. For mainly two 3 reasons

-probably more reliable than any other guns on your list
-one of if not the cheapest option
-will allow you to shoot very accurately even as a beginner


I have seen torture tests done, a high quality example of a makarov (Russian, Bulgarian) is an extremely reliable pistol and they work well dirty and neglected. They are a military arm, and designed by Russia, who cares mostly for simplicity and reliability in all and every condition. They have a fixed barrel. Meaning the barrel is semi-permanently affixed to the frame. So when the weapon. Is fired, the barrel does not move of rotate or drop away, it remains in the same position. Combined with the fact that the makarov is heavy for caliber (being blowback design and all steel), it will not have very much recoil at all, and should allow precision shot placement even for a novice, especially if you use proper technique and fundamentals.

The 9x18 cartridge is not as powerful as 9x19, .38special or .357mag, but it is slightly larger in diameter, and will have sufficient power if you place as many shots as you can as quickly as you can into the chest or head.

If you decided on a 9x19 or .38spcl, try to get ahold of some SWC or flat nosed lead projectiles, they will do much more tissue damage than fmj, while penetrating less, and also won't expand. We use them successfully for hunting animals, and they are very effective at killing if placed in a critical area.

Another point on the makarov, if you get one of these, you will have low capacity, but there is a holster out there that I believe the Russians or similar country used in service, that allows you to cock the slide back as you draw the weapon out. Maybe you could buy one of these holsters online and it would eliminate the need to manually cock the slide after drawing. could be difference of life and death.

Good luck to you, feel free to send me a message if you have any questions or concerns
 
Welcome.
Are there any training requirements to get a carry permit where you are?
If not, (and even if there are) that would be the place to start.
Surviving a possible deadly encounter, and the legal aftermath, involves far more than a conversation about what gun to get.
"The choice of gun is the least of it."
 
RadekSkylark Welcome! Very well thought out post! From what all you have said in your shoes I would try and find a .38 special 6 shot DA revolver with a short barrel for the carry gun. Sounds like you have a few on your list already! I would also buy a used Makarov and shoot it at the range, carry it if you really want to, but I think the Makarov would be a no brainer for the cost.

This is coming from a guy who carries either a glock 19 or a shield daily, but since you cannot carry with the chamber loaded a revolver would be your best bet I believe. The 38 special with a short barrel shouldn't have too many over penetration issues if you are smart about where you shoot.
 
I always recommend a 22 as a first handgun. Nowadays I recommend a steel frame full CZ with their Kadet unit, or a Browning HP or Colt 1911 or good copy thereof with the Ciener Conversion unit. IIRC Kimber sells the Ciener with their logo.
 
Welcome aboard, RS. In the US, 9x18 ammo is not always readily available or cheap. If it is just as easy to get and just as inexpensive as the other calibers there, I would take the price savings on the pistol. I like my Berettas and Sigs and Glock, but not at that price difference.

Just as an aside, requiring an empty chamber and a thumb safety means you are going to need lots of practice at drawing and preparing to fire. I would pick up some snap caps and practice a lot without burning through ammo.
 
It seems that I have found a sentence in the law which basically states that revolver can be carried with full cylinder (with ammo in all chambers). It sounds like this:
"One is allowed to prepare gun for shooting by disabling external safety (if gun has one) and chambering a round (or cocking a revolver) if rules for engagement are met"

So, it seems that from law's point of view chambering a round in a pistol is equivalent to cocking a revolver.

What you think about this statement? Is my interpretation logic?

Thanks
 
Can you own more than 1 pistol?

The Makarov makes the most sense for price and ease of carry.

Otherwise - the Glock 19 or Glock 26 would be my pic for capacity, reliability, accuracy, and ease of use with an empty chamber.
 
RadekSkylark said:
It seems that I have found a sentence in the law which basically states that revolver can be carried with full cylinder (with ammo in all chambers). It sounds like this:
"One is allowed to prepare gun for shooting by disabling external safety (if gun has one) and chambering a round (or cocking a revolver) if rules for engagement are met"

So, it seems that from law's point of view chambering a round in a pistol is equivalent to cocking a revolver.

What you think about this statement? Is my interpretation logic?

Thanks
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Be very careful here, RadekSkylark.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to guess that you've posted a translation of the law for us. That means that you're asking a bunch of well-meaning gun owners to help you interpret a translation of Latvian law. As I'm sure you know, translations are rarely exact, and the law relies on very precise language (at least it does here). As well-meaning as our members are, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that: (1) very few of them read Latvian well enough to read the actual statute; (2) very few of them are licensed to practice law; and (3) even fewer of them are licensed to practice law in Latvia. I have to suggest that you consult an attorney on this issue. You might consider talking to some folks at the local gun club to see if there's an attorney local to you that is familiar with the law in this area.

With all of that said, TFL members, if any of you are fluent in Latvian and licensed to practice law there, feel free to speak up.
 
Makorov for cheap and save up for g19.

I have plenty of revolver s from my father and I really don't like them. Mechanically beautiful, but I can never tell when there is or is not a bullet. No thanks.

Laws are complex here, but there they might be stricter if in violation. I would consult a Latvian gun user to be sure.

Good luck!
 
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