Buying a pistol as a gift

AH.74
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Example4: You see the Black Friday ad for $400 Glocks at a local gun store. You tell your wife "Hey! When you go to get milk, swing by Bob's Tactical Armory and Mall Ninja Supply and get me one of thse Glocks.....here's some cash...." Again straw sale because your wife is not the actual buyer/transferee....you are.
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I think this is a gray area if there is one. Who is to say that the gun isn't for both of them? If so, then she is the buyer.

Is the money "his" only? Or is it "theirs?"

Do you factor state property laws into this equation at all?
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The relationship (husband, wife, neighbor, father, co worker, etc) makes no difference........if the person signing the 4473 is not the actual buyer/transferee then its a straw sale.
 
And the moral of the story is...federal gun laws are nonsensical, and are in need of a complete revamp! What justification is there for making me a felon if I give my gun to my brother who just happens to live two miles away, but across a state line. If it give the same gun to my other brother, who lives 400 miles away, but in the same state, it's perfectly legal.

Why does the gun owning public still tolerate such inane, archaic gun laws???
 
The relationship does matter. There's a big difference between buying a gun for your neighbor and buying one for immediate family. Buying a gun for your Wife is in no way a straw purchase.

How can people believe that kind of stuff? :rolleyes:
 
The relationship does matter. There's a big difference between buying a gun for your neighbor and buying one for immediate family. Buying a gun for your Wife is in no way a straw purchase.
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I agree, and so do several of the FFL's I've dealt with over the years.
 
Frank Ettin said:
Well, if you've got a plan to fix this, why not share it with the rest of us?
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Bad laws get changed when enough people speak out against them. The nation has finally realized that the drug prohibition laws are doing more harm than good, and it’s only a matter of time before those laws crumble. Any law that makes a person a felon based solely on geographical location is a bad law, and if enough people spoke out against such laws, they would get changed. My elected representatives continuously hear from me, and I’d venture to say that if everyone on this forum wrote their elected officials and/or a citizens’ lobbying group like the NRA and voiced their concerns, we’d make a good start at getting some of these unfair laws off the books. One never knows…
 
Jaycee - You should start this as a new topic but I don't know if it is 'gun related' enough for TFL.

BTW I agree with you, a lot!
 
Gift- You buy a gun and give it as a gift to another resident of your state. Gift means you use your $$$$ and have no expectation of being reimbursed.
Example1: you purchase a gun, give it to a neighbor for his birthday. He says thank you, have some cake.
Example2: Parents buy an AR lower for their 18 yr old son as a Christmas gift. Not illegal under federal law and not a straw sale.
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I think there is an "example 3"... parents buy an AR for their 14 year old son who is an honors student and already already has his required community service project decided for his Eagle Scout requirement and hunts with his dad every trip as he has since just a little tike...:D

Brent
 
Edward429451 The relationship does matter. There's a big difference between buying a gun for your neighbor and buying one for immediate family. Buying a gun for your Wife is in no way a straw purchase.
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Please provide a citation from Federal law that exempts family members.

I'll save you the time....it doesn't exist.


You can GIFT a firearm to any resident of your state.

You cannot purchase a firearm on behalf of ANYONE else. The law is clear.
 
Please provide a citation from Federal law that exempts family members.

I'll save you the time....it doesn't exist.
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You're darn right it doesn't exist, because they do not write laws to tell you what you can do, only what you can't do, lol. I'll take my FFL's opinion over your, thank you. Play it safe if you like and apply to the Government to be able to buy your Wife a present. Myself, I'll live a normal life within my rights. If you couldn't buy family members a gun for a present then I'd have been in jail long ago because we've had somewhat of a family tradition of buying guns for each other. WADR, you're being overly paranoid, but by all means, do what you want.
 
The pistol is bought, picked up under my name, and now awaits wrapping paper and the surprise Santa visit on Christmas Eve :)
 
Edward429451
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Please provide a citation from Federal law that exempts family members.
I'll save you the time....it doesn't exist.
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You're darn right it doesn't exist, because they do not write laws to tell you what you can do, only what you can't do,
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So.....why did you claim that the "relationship does matter"?:confused:
ATF regs/Federal law say only the actual buyer/transfereee may complete a 4473. There is NOT an exemption for family members.


I'll take my FFL's opinion over your, thank you. Play it safe if you like and apply to the Government to be able to buy your Wife a present.
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You didn't read anything above before you posted did you?:rolleyes:

If you had you would have read that a GIFT is completely legal from ANYONE....and always has been. Federal law/ATF regs prohibit acquiring a firearm on behalf of another person from a licensed dealer.......and specifically mentions a gift as being exempt.



Myself, I'll live a normal life within my rights. If you couldn't buy family members a gun for a present then I'd have been in jail long ago because we've had somewhat of a family tradition of buying guns for each other. WADR, you're being overly paranoid, but by all means, do what you want.
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Federal gun laws apply no matter who the recepient is, family or not. If you give a firearm as a gift to your son who resides in the same state....legal. If you give a firearm as a gift to your son who resides in another state....illegal, and you both violated Federal law.
 
dogtown tom said:
...If you give a firearm as a gift to your son who resides in the same state....legal. If you give a firearm as a gift to your son who resides in another state....illegal, and you both violated Federal law...
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Not exactly. You may give a gift of a firearm to a resident of another State, whether or not a family member, BUT it must be transferred to the recipient through an FFL with usual formalities (4473, etc.), just as any other interstate transfer.
 
Perhaps I misunderstood you just a bit Tom, but you seemed to be putting the Government above Family, and I find that laughable. I respect the laws and the state line thing, but for immediate family residing with you or even in the same state it is largely none of anyones business what weapons are transferred around.

It has even happened before that I bought a gun and didn't like it so much once I had it for a week or so and so gave it to a family member who did like it. Relationship does matter in that within immediate family, (assuming no felonies etc.) it is not a straw purchase and not their business. Non family members transfers could be brought into question much more easily than immediate family, so in that light relationship does matter.
 
NOPE!!! Edward, the law is clearly written... You can gift a firearm to family or non family equally... Not easier to family or free pass on state lines etc...

A gift is a gift...

Brent
 
It has even happened before that I bought a gun and didn't like it so much once I had it for a week or so and so gave it to a family member who did like it. Relationship does matter in that within immediate family, (assuming no felonies etc.) it is not a straw purchase and not their business. Non family members transfers could be brought into question much more easily than immediate family, so in that light relationship does matter.
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You're actually discussing two separate issues here.

Even if you'd given the gun to a person who wasn't a family member, it would have been perfectly legal. You'd get in hot water if you gave it to someone you knew to be disqualified from owning a gun, but that's another matter.

The situation you describe isn't a straw purchase because you didn't buy it on behalf of someone else.
 
Edward429451 said:
...but you seemed to be putting the Government above Family, and I find that laughable. I respect the laws and the state line thing, but for immediate family residing with you or even in the same state it is largely none of anyones business what weapons are transferred around...
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Maybe sometimes, and maybe sometimes not.

The point is to know and understand the law. If you do, there will nearly always be a legal way to do whatever you want to do (except somethings like giving a machine gun to a convicted felon who's a drug addict).
 
Edward429451 Perhaps I misunderstood you just a bit Tom, but you seemed to be putting the Government above Family, and I find that laughable
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Do you find violating Federal law laughable? Good luck with that.:rolleyes:

I respect the laws and the state line thing...
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Obviously not, since you ignore the law.


Relationship does matter in that within immediate family, (assuming no felonies etc.) it is not a straw purchase and not their business. Non family members transfers could be brought into question much more easily than immediate family, so in that light relationship does matter
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Complete nonsense.
 
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