Busted my Cherry....With OPEN CARRY!

Tactical advantage vs. No gun vs Illegal gun

Everyone,

I don't think there is a single one among us who will argue that CC is preferrable to OC. My point to posting my experience is in my state - at current time it is illegal for civilians to CC in bars / restaurants that have a license to consume alcohol on the premises.

So the choice is to go illegal gun CC, unarmed, or go OC in those establishments. I prefer to go OC. It was my first time, so I wanted to share those thoughts. And I applaud all of you, who have done so as well. My point is - try it once - IF legal in your state (and you feel confident and secure in your ability) and see how it feels.

To the pending post about the man who got harassed by cops - my thoughts are even if it is your right - it does not hurt to be NICE to the boys in blue. BUT even if you are not nice - it is still your RIGHT and they should not harass folks for doing so.

If we start letting big government step on us for these violations, what is next? I say hold the line and fight for principle.
 
I'm a little wary of my upcoming open-carry excursion into Arizona, but I have to do it. I'll be traveling all night long, in a place I've never been. I'd be foolish not to be armed. Hopefully, there will not be any incident. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
 
I see where your coming from, though I still see him in the right.
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I'm sorry, I can't agree... this guy's story has more holes than swiss cheese, especially his second run in the with the law where he claims that he always drives around with the magazine of his pistol between his legs. Does he think the cop is a moron?? Apparantly his own wife tells the cops that he unloaded the pistol after the cop stopped them.

Then after all his claims of harassment and false arrest he goes and cops a plea... which was probably the happy ending to this whole story, since he gave up his gun as part of the agreement. So law abiding gun owners will no longer have to worry about this guy "fighting for thier rights".

I think the fact that the pro-gun groups wouldn't touch this guy's case with a ten foot pole speaks volumes to just how "in the right" this bozo really was. The sad part is that if he had learned at least the basics of manners he probably wouldn't have had half the problems he did. This started out with a reasonable reaction to a 911 call (a single police officer walking over to see what was going on), and this guy just insisted on making a scene and escalating it and then crying about being the "victim". As it was all he did was give legal gun owners a bad rep with the local law.

Let's face it, if age requirements to purchase handguns went by the comparative age of mental and emotional development, rather than physical age then this guy would still have another 19 years to go before he would be legally eligable to purchase one.
 
there's a thread on TFL here which covers this issue in more detail:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148017

It was hashed over pretty good there.

Strange- I've been hunting and openly or concealed carrying and checked 6 or 7 times by fish and game officers and never been disarmed. I've been carrying concealed at traffic stops, and never been disarmed. Of course, this was in the woods or in a car.

I don't understand why officers are in danger from a man with a gun in one geographical location and safe with a man with a gun in another geographical location.

I suspect the attitude toward the officers had more to do with it than anything. I know it really shouldn't matter, but they're human, after all.

I hate to sound cynical, but I think this country has outlived the usefulness of guns. I think most gunowners themselves, even those who ccw (closet carry weapons), have been educated by the public school system, the media and today's culture to think guns are not acceptable, and best left for Hollywood, history, and a privileged few.

I keep hearing "why do you need a gun?" I say to the gunowner who says this: "why do YOU need a gun?" Hunting or shooting papaer targets is not exactly a neccessity, but our gov't seems to think guns are unlawful if they're "not for sporting purposes." What does "sporting" have to do with the second amendment? Did we take the armories at Lexington and Concord for "sporting purposes"?

I've read the word "paranoid" several times on this forum. I'm sure i'm quoting someone here, but not sure who: "Why should I be paranoid, I have the gun?"

Cops are afraid of people with guns? Bank tellers are afraid of people who possess guns? Equipment installers (me) are afraid of people with guns?

Back to the open carry- people don't usually openly exercise RKBA in the city. So the public gets used to feeling safe because they don't see the guns that are there- the ones carried legally by permit, or carried illegally, by crooks. Truth is, no one- cops, crooks or the rest of us are safe- ever. Guns, cars, crooks, lightning, meteors falling from the sky. When your number's up, your number's up. Why does society pick out guns over everything else? I don't know. I think it's public education, the urbanization of the U.S., less people exposed to guns - maybe we're too civilized for anybody but the criminals or cops to have guns, or defend themselves.

We live in a society that increasingly places emphasis on safety, not liberty. We accept officers killing a family (albeit family of wackos) over a sawed off shotgun. That's law and order. Yet, I can't let my kids hammer something together with nails or spank them 'cause that would endanger them? I do this anyway, but by today's standards, that reckless and abusive. God help me if I do this with someone else's kids- I'll get sued for thousands.

It's dangerous in my opinion, to put safety above liberty. But I don't see the train stopping in my lifetime. I do see it crashing at the bottom.

I really feel it's only a matter of time until we go the way of the British.
 
Believe me, I totally agree that the perception of firearms in the country is increasingly negative and I'm not at all happy about that. However the "It's my RIGHT and if the police even look at me funny I'm going to scream HARASSMENT" attitude is both ignorant and counter productive. The fact is that an officer responding to a call about about a man with a gun is perfectly within bounds of the law to briefly question you long enough to ensure that no crime is being committed. Needless to say a confrontational demeanor where you respond to an officer's questions with hostility and evasiveness doesn't really help speed things along.

It's just one of those things to keep in mind if you're going to carry, whether you do so openly or concealed. Following the law and being polite to those who's job it is to enforce those laws will go alot further towards protecting your rights than being some kind of rebel martyr. If you don't like the laws there's legal ways to change them and organizations dedicated to that purpose that can use your support. Bubba "$%^# the Guvment" Redneck who just wants to things his way and says "Screw the system" adds to the problem and not the solution.
 
Wayne,

That was a beautiful montage of thoughts and ideas.

However, I respectfully disagree with you. I believe even though the mainstream press has not changed their mind about the general perception of guns - the public has gone to more non-traditional sources of information to get their news - blogs, the internet etc.

Several grassroots organizations - NRA, VCDL (local to the state of VA) have gone out of their way to educate the public about firearms. And help folks who the government has unjustly prosecuted.

Once in a while some whacko goes nuts and it gets a lot of press, but the general public is slowly changing its mind about guns. There are less anti-gun laws now:

No more Assualt weapons bans.

More states with "shall issue" CC

More states with OC

Although 911 has increased the nation's paranoia about security - there is a large faction of the country that is dedicated to liberty and freedom, not to mention it is in our base constitution - This is not the case with the British.

So lets help the cause in educating more of our neighbors and friends in gun safety, and fine art of killing paper targets. :D
 
Before MO got CCW, I OCed everywhere I could. Now I live on a farm in a rural area. I OC all day long when at home. It is just easier to leave it on when I have to drive the 6 miles to town for feed and such. Once, at a bait shop, a van full of sheeple from St. Louis I guess were pressed up to their side windows watching me get ice and minnows while open carrying my 92FS. It was like they were in one of those zoos you can drive your car through.
Once I was in line at the Dollar General store with the canine deputy from the County sheriffr's office. He asked if I liked my 92. Absolutely I told him. He knew me bacause he was the one that did the fingerprints on my CCW apps for MO and FL.
I would not OC in STL or KC. It is is illegal in STL and North KC anyway.
In the right place, OC is just fine.
 
"That was a beautiful montage of thoughts and ideas."

That really wasn't my intention. On the contrary, I burnt my frozen pizza while typing all that out. And I don't think it's beautiful at all. I fear what will happen when this next generation gets into power. I got thinking about that and got all fired up.

We have made some headway in the last five years or so, with CCW reciprocity agreements, semiauto ban sunsetting, and we just had the castle doctrine expanded here.

Florida is kind of a melting pot, at least for the east coast and you get to meet a pretty good cross section of the U.S.- I see the people from other states moving in, hearing their attitudes about things, and it's scary. I hear the Barbara Boxers, Hillary Clintons, and Ted Kennedys of our country. John Kerry was nearly elected president, and I think he would be elected today if it were put to a vote now.

I'm not lying down without a fight, to be sure. I'm still writing and calling my congressmen, etc. But unless we get firearms back into the mainstream public in a big way I can see things getting worse.

ATW: "Needless to say a confrontational demeanor where you respond to an officer's questions with hostility and evasiveness doesn't really help speed things along."

I agree.
 
That really wasn't my intention. On the contrary, I burnt my frozen pizza while typing all that out. And I don't think it's beautiful at all. I fear what will happen when this next generation gets into power. I got thinking about that and got all fired up.
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I think you are going about this the wrong way.
I look at it from the other POV.
In my eye's, it is the old generation (old regime) that has screwed this up, and it is the combination of multiple generations that are building the idea of CC back up to an idea of safety and the 2nd amend.

It can only get better from here.
 
I have always carried my gun concealed even before there was such a thing as CCW 'permits'. I didn't really care what the law was about that and don't really care now. I have a CCW now (after much thought, and I don't know if it was right to get one yet), The police don't have the means to protect me or my family all the time that's up to me and my family and that's what I do no matter what the law says.
I do carry a gun out on the hip when I'm in the woods or camping such as that, but it's concealed when in public.
 
BatmanX, I can't agree more. In just the last 15 years the country has gone from nearly NO CCW permits to the majority of states having them. My Dad is an NRA life member and he believes all guns should be registered and owners licensed! I see the tide shifting AWAY from the British model, even in Britan!
 
chipotle

i usually CCW in VA. then one day i randomly ended up at chipotle with some friends and realized before going in that they serve beer. so i opened up the zipper on the side of my winter coat to let the pistol show (blackhawk cqc holster... nice retension system). Anyway nobody noticed the pistol until I got up to get refill. A friend of mine was a bit concerned at first (she's not a gun person). She asked "When did you get a gun!". I told her I've concealed carry for years. Then she asked "why open carry!". I told her the laws that in VA you have to open carry a handgun in an establishment that serves alcohol... she thought that was was nuts. Then I told her I can conceal my handgun but not a knife....
 
I haven't read all the posts in this thread but the few that I did prompted me to post this column that I wrote for Virginia News Source last summer....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are a select few states that allow it's citizens to carry their weapons out in the open but there is a FEWER select few citizens that choose to exercise that right for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

There are quite a few establishments nowadays that choose to post signs that prohibit the carry of firearms, openly or concealed, within thier walls. This is another of the many things that gives me deep and lasting indigestion. If you don't want to be robbed or have a disgruntled employee take out his frustration on your patrons, why do you create such a "hazard-free environment" for those that might perpetrate such a crime? Do you seriously think that a guy intent on robbing your store, or worse, is going to walk up to your door, see your "No Guns" sign and say, "Darn!, I sooooooo wanted to rob this place but the sign says I can't bring my gun in so I guess I'll just have to go somewhere else."? No, by posting that sign, you have pretty much assured the criminal that there is little, if any, chance that he will be confronted. When trained, credible, responsible citizens carry their weapons in your store and give you their business, you should be grateful that, at least for the time that they are present, your business is protected. At least from violent crime. Most of us will not shoot someone for stealing money as it is replaceable and probably insured. However, I have never met a legitimate gun-toter that would not intervene if someone were to threaten innocents or start shooting.

I think that many post those signs because of fear of the image that some of the patrons might get, not for liability reasons.

It is my opinion that if those who do carry regularly WOULD carry openly more often, it would help to desensitize those whom some people are afraid they are going to offend. Well, it offends ME when someone is offended by my carrying (which is RARELY an issue here in NM). I have my rights just like they have theirs. They have the right to get up and go eat somewhere else if they happen to come into a restaurant where I am eating. They have the right to run home screaming if they see me walking down the street and I am armed. I, on the other hand, have the right to do anything that they can do and their being there doesn't affect me one way or the other. The reason that gun rights are in the shape that they are in is because we gunowners continuously pander to "them" and try to compromise to a point that is OK with "them". We walk around and hide what we do or give certain rights away to retain others. That's not freedom to me.

I don't "flaunt" it as some have said. I think that if one is going to carry openly that they should dress neatly and wear your gear professionally and conservatively. I don't think that it's appropriate to wear a 7.5" Super Blackhawk downtown in cheap nylon Wal-Mart holster. Yes, occasionally when I come in from hunting or something and I'm carrying a .44, I may stop to get a Coke or gas or something but I'm not gonna take my gun off just because someone else may not approve of it but what I wear daily is a Glock 23 in a Blade Tech belt holster with my shirt tail tucked in. I dress neatly and there is nothing threatening about my appearance (unless you feel threatened by someone that 6"4", 245 pound and wearing a gun :) ). Once in a while, I get a question or two but I have yet to experience the fear and panic that some claim is going to happen.

Occassionally, someone tells me how much that they value the 2nd amendment. Well, so do I...as it was written. Not as they would have me to accept it. Having said all that, I do believe that there are a very few places where it may not be appropriate to wear openly like church or some business meetings or picking the kids up at the Boys and Girls Club. In those few places, I do carry but it is concealed. If it's an impromptu occasion, I simply untuck my shirt and let it cover the gun. If it's planned, like church, I wear a Glock 27 in a Blade Tech IWB and a jacket or vest.

I don't "flaunt" it, make a big deal out of it or handle it in any manner when in public and I have NEVER had any problem.

I WILL NOT CRAWL AROUND AND EXERCISE MY GOD-GIVEN RIGHTS ONLY WHEN IT IS ACCEPTABLE WITH SOMEONE ELSE OR WHERE THEY CANNOT SEE!

There are those who will not stand up for a passing flag unless a few people around them do. Well I am the one around them that is first to stand. I could care less what everyone around me does. I have a man to face every day in the mirror and someone else to face when I leave this world. I plan to be able to walk uprightly before Him and say that I have done the best I could to uphold and exercise the rights and freedoms that I was blessed with at my birth.

"All those in favor of losing their rights, please do nothing!"
 
I just love it when people claim that a civilian carrying openly has placed a bullseye on their back for criminals.

Can't remember the last time I read a news report in which this occurred (a civilian carrying openly being gunned down for their firearm or being targeted for violence).

And with the vast majority of people purporting this, neither can they. ;)
 
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