Bush's New Programs

The idea that we are in a "war on terror" and the borders are wide open tells you what a joke this "war" is and should make us all very concerned about these camps.

When I go to the airport and see them shaking down 80 year old veterans and pregnant women it should show us what this system is meant to do.

Now the government is saying they want the same screening on trains, passenger boats, buses and subways. Then they want it in shopping malls and other public parks and areas.

I believe it was the Houston police chief that said this week he wanted cameras in private homes!

Link here: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2006/160206privatehomes.htm

Truth is stranger than fiction, yet somehow we've seen it all before.
 
rha600

[It seems to me the US is very easy to get into so why do people do it illegally?]

missed this statement... it's actually very hard, and getting harder. To make things worse, every communication with INS (something that all non-citizens have to do every once in a while) is a humiliating and time consuming experience, no matter what your social status otherwise is.

To compensate for mistreatment of legals, they are giving green light to illegals. See my previous comment about drug problem.
 
True, but they were not of the calibre of the illegals coming across today. Many coming now cannot speak the language, and some refuse to learn. They come to GET the medical help, and end up as leeches on our society.

As yes, the new ones aren't of the same "calibre" as the old.

Back in the 1800s, people already living here pretty much said the exact same thing about the "new" immigrants coming from Ireland, Italy, Eastern Europe, China, etc. American civilization has yet to crumble as a result of the alleged substandard "calibre" of those immigrants.

Most immigrants, regardless of origin, do not speak English on arrival. Some learn, some don't. That is an anthropological aspect of migration.

Funny how the new immigrants, those "leeches on society," are willing to break their backs in our orchards, farms, warehouses, construction sites, eldercare homes, etc. for ridiculously low sums of money and zero benefits or job security, except what scraps they might be able to glean from various government entities. Even funnier that they are characterized as lazy and opportunistic for their efforts.

The current immigration debate worries me precisely because many people view it as a population 'problem', in that its presumed solution revolves around expulsion of said population. Whenever the ideology turns in that direction, bad things tend to occur.

LeifproudsonofanimmigrantDelaware

(and former resident of Miami, Florida)
 
rha600 [I guess all the red tape and stuff makes it easier for them to just jump the fence.]

Which causes yet another nasty long-term and ill-conceived effect. When applied on a global scale - and it is - this policy does no favors to gene pool of US. No matter how you look at it, illegal boarder crossing is a criminal act, and even though many of those who commit the act do so out of desperation and may become otherwise good citizens, laws of statistics are inexorable: ratio of criminally inclined among them is greater than among generic population. This very observation may be reversed when applied to those who go the legal route. Conclusion? US intentionally degenerates quality of it's population through immigration practicies.

Here is another social observation: the more society leans to the left the more problems illegal immigration causes, California and Texas being examples. Texas may have it bad, but at least hospitals there don't shut down because they can't make ends meet - even though services are hideously expensive.

Those two observations combined... It appears that even fully opening the borders and welcoming everybody - under strict condition that there would be no social benefits administered - would be less dangerous than the route US is currently taking. Today, we are weeding out the worst... and keeping everybody else out!
 
I have to ask where you live. because to be honest, and no offense but you're talking out your ass on this. but here, I'll answer your non educated questions.
Illinois but I grew up in Atlanta and have lived in various parts of Florida as well as spending a short time in California.

I never said chevy shouldn't advertise to spanish speaking people. I said they shouldn't have to do it when they are advertising here in america. where the native language is english. go to spain or italy or columbia and see how many commercials are in english. And it's not just chevy. if you lived here, which you obviously don't from your comments, it's everything. wallgreens, banks, car makers, home depot, coffee shops, malls...I had to drive to 4 differnt hair cut places to find one that had people who could understand wtf I was even saying to them.
They don't have to do it, they choose to. Chevy is not forced to advertise in spanish any more than you are forced to watch the commercials. Do you really believe it likely that an illegal immigrant who cannot speak English is going to walk into a Chevy dealership and buy a brand new Tahoe? With those commercials Chevy is targeting hispanics who live here legally, speak the english language as well as you do, and make as much money as you and I.

Those hair salons are free to cater to hispanics. You don't like the fact that they don't have english speaking employees so you chose not to spend your money there. Where is the problem?

my nephew has to take and pass spanish to graduate high school. do you think they just suddenly one day said "oh. we should make EVERYONE learn spanish in case one day they decide to travel to spain." funny how other cultures like people from asian, germany, russia, italy are more than happy to learn english. yet here there are entire communities made up of people who can't make a simple sentence. stores with signs totally in spanish. street signs in english and spanish. the clenaing lady here in my building has been there 40 years and the other day couldn't even ask me where to plug in her vaccuum.
Is your nephew limited to spanish or is he able to choose german, italian, russian, japanese, french, or portugese like virtually every other high school across the nation? It's a requirement to learn a foreign language, not a requirement to learn spanish. If his particular school only offers spanish because they could only find spanish teachers to hire then it's no fault of the illegals or the other hispanics in the country.

Yeah, funny how all those people from other places you mentioned can speak english yet none of the hispanics living in America...oh wait a second, many of them indeed speak english. In fact, would you be able to show me any kind of data that indicates there is a larger percentage of non-english speaking hispanics than there are non-english speaking germans, japanese, italians, or french?

I don't "know" any because I have no desire to "know" them. but living down here in little havana (that's the real name)
With all due respect, that's your problem, not theirs. And who cares if it's called little havana; are you also annoyed because there's a "little italy" area of New York?

For the record the first European settlers in Florida were spaniards. In fact, what language do you think names like Florida, Miami, Orlando, Pensacola, Boca Raton, Delray Beach, Bonita Springs, Riviera Beach, and Panama City come from (granted the last four are combinations of two languages) came from?

well here's something else to amaze you.

it was in the local news about a year ago a man from cuba who had been here for 40 years, give or take. He had never paid taxes (which I find hard to beleive but maybe they just meant SS taxes) and was now in his early 70s. he became a US citizen so he could start collecting SS benefits.
Which is a gross abuse of the system but no more or less heinous than an American citizen collecting welfare despite never having paid taxes himself.

It seems to me the US is very easy to get into so why do people do it illegally? maybe it's not as easy as it seems.
Certainly doesn't seem easy to me. Perhaps if the situation was looked at logically the problem could solve itself.

Why do people come here illegally instead of legally? The former is easier than the latter. Make it easier to get here legally than illegally and the only people that will be sneaking across the border will be the criminals that couldn't pass the background checks and the terrorists that we need to be keeping out.
 
What border?

I have to agree with jerryM, don't hire a company that hires them. I saw this work in Florida, when visiting being from Austin, he said I was in for a lesson. Four co's came out at the same time. Two of the co's had about 5 guys in the back and he just walked up and asked them a few questions then said to leave. Then he took bids from the other two American companies. That nips it in the bud. No work, no money going back to Mexico, and they go some where else where they don't screen. Now if everybody screened, that would be the end of it. Then Vicente Fox would have to clean up his act or he would be voted out. Then they would have to actually build an infrastructure to create jobs. You go to Mexico, and try to get welfare, free rides, emergency health care, and call them racists if they don't give it to you. They'll kill you or hold you for ransom.
 
why should I have to switch channels to see english commercials for a company like Chevy when I'm living in america and watching american TV?
Because if you are watching a commercial in Spanish then you are probably watching a Spanish language station. The first clue is when the announcer starts saying Sabado Gigante really loud.

I have lived hear almost 40 years and just spent a few days down south, I have yet to see a Spanish commercial on English language TV.
my nephew has to take and pass spanish to graduate high school. do you think they just suddenly one day said "oh. we should make EVERYONE learn spanish in case one day they decide to travel to spain."
My son is also taking Spanish, because he doesn't want to speak French and German was filled up.
I took German. I can still say "It's raining", some indoctrination

it was in the local news about a year ago a man from cuba who had been here for 40 years, give or take. He had never paid taxes (which I find hard to beleive but maybe they just meant SS taxes) and was now in his early 70s. he became a US citizen so he could start collecting SS benefits.
Got a link?

but living down here in little havana
You live in a place called Little Havana and are surprised that there is a lot of Cuban influences there

Immigrants do not owe you the consideration of speaking your language just for the honor of living in your community.
Their only responsibility is to come over not commit crimes and contribute to the tax base or at least not burden it


Is it just me or weren't we all taught to capitalize proper nouns in ENGLISH class
 
Immigrants do not owe you the consideration of speaking your language just for the honor of living in your community.
Their only responsibility is to come over not commit crimes and contribute to the tax base or at least not burden it

Judging by all the crime and murders on the border and the hospitals closing I would say both are a problem.

Not to mention we are seeing diseases like leprosy and hepititis in the US like never before coming from Mexico. Even back in the early 1900s we screened immigrants' health upon arrival.

I'm not against immigration but there needs to be a program in place. There are no first world countries anywhere that allow for "walk-in" immigration. In fact, there are almost no countries anywhere that allow such a thing. Why should it be here? Because it furthers the socialist agenda of the government and tears apart the people.
 
Judging by all the crime and murders on the border and the hospitals closing I would say both are a problem.

Not to mention we are seeing diseases like leprosy and hepititis in the US like never before coming from Mexico. Even back in the early 1900s we screened immigrants' health upon arrival.
Would it make you feel better if the criminals and the sick spoke English
 
Would it make you feel better if the criminals and the sick spoke English
That was one confusing statement. No, it probably wouldn't (although not knowing Republicrat personally I'm kinda guessing here)... but what's your point? How is it relevant? Was it just a babble, or do you imply that if sick and criminals stay home their number would somehow be magically compensated by English speaking criminals and sick? That US would increase internal supply of criminals, and open a couple of labs to keep up level of leprosy and hepititis?
 
I have to agree with jerryM, don't hire a company that hires them. I saw this work in Florida, when visiting being from Austin, he said I was in for a lesson. Four co's came out at the same time. Two of the co's had about 5 guys in the back and he just walked up and asked them a few questions then said to leave. Then he took bids from the other two American companies. That nips it in the bud. No work, no money going back to Mexico, and they go some where else where they don't screen. Now if everybody screened, that would be the end of it. Then Vicente Fox would have to clean up his act or he would be voted out. Then they would have to actually build an infrastructure to create jobs. You go to Mexico, and try to get welfare, free rides, emergency health care, and call them racists if they don't give it to you. They'll kill you or hold you for ransom.
I have to disagree. I've hired without screening a number of times and I've yet to see a downside. Taxes? I didn't document them nor hand them 1099s so I ended up paying their taxes for them. Gov't got the same amount of money whether it was from me or from them. Some were paid higher wages than the documented workers we had, some less, but it was always based on how hard they worked and what they accomplished for me.

I don't see where the problem is. For the record, not all of those "undocumented" workers were here illegally. Some of them were full US citizens that I simply wanted to to hire for a day or two. It should not be the responsibility of a business owner to verify the legal status of an employee.
 
I agree that the illegal immigration problem is out of control, but it's also a testiment that we still have the greatest country in the world. People are risking their lives to get here. I don't see anyone leaving and floating on a rickety raft for days putting their families in danger to get to the middle east or europe. Maybe those who like to badmouth the current administration should let all of the illegals know that our country is horrible and they should go to the middle east or europe where they have their stuff together.
 
Quote:
"I can't help but ask why we need "detention camps" for illegal immigrants that cost hundreds of millions rather than just close our borders and hire some more border patrol for like 1/100th of the cost."

The detention camps are not intended to house illegal aliens. If so, they would have gone downtown to the U.S. Post Office in my home town, and rounded up the ones standing around waiting for contractors to pick thime up for day labor jobs every single day from seven am til around ten am, as they block entrance each morning to U.S. Citizens wanting to conduct business at the United States Post Office. You have to drive around them, or "ask" them to move.

Those camps are for detention of United States citizens who fail to comply with martial law whenever the people coming in from the middle east with intent to cause us harm pop off a biological or radiological bomb. Those are the same ones who come into the United States across Mexico with those same Mexican illegal aliens standing around the United States Post office every morning.

The Law Enforcement Agencies in each town in America do not believe they have the power to arrest those guys, so since they are coming in by the thousands every day, it is inevitable that an attack against our country will occur. If they had any intent whatsoever of putting illegal aliens in detention camps, they would have done it long, long agao.

The camps are for us.
 
Because if you are watching a commercial in Spanish then you are probably watching a Spanish language station. The first clue is when the announcer starts saying Sabado Gigante really loud.

I have lived hear almost 40 years and just spent a few days down south, I have yet to see a Spanish commercial on English language TV.

Fox TV is now spanish? Discovery channel showing a program called AMERICAN chopper is now spanish? At least think before you open your trap. Just because you "spent a couple days down south" doesn't mean a damn thing. i've spent a couple days in panama, that doesn't mean I know what their culture is truely like.

My son is also taking Spanish, because he doesn't want to speak French and German was filled up.
I took German. I can still say "It's raining", some indoctrination

oh, so what you're saying is that he has a choice. how about that. Wouldn't it be nice if all the people born here had a choice. wouldn't it be nice if all the people born and raised here in america could go out and ge a job without having to worry if they can speak spanish AND english or not.


Got a link?
yeah hold on let me go spend my day looking for a link on the internet to a news broadcast I saw a year ago. I'll get right on that.


but living down here in little havana

You live in a place called Little Havana and are surprised that there is a lot of Cuban influences there

Immigrants do not owe you the consideration of speaking your language just for the honor of living in your community.
Their only responsibility is to come over not commit crimes and contribute to the tax base or at least not burden it

the hell they don't. part of not causing a burden on the country also involves learnign the language so that the companies, people and governements don't have to completely change the way they do things.
 
Those hair salons are free to cater to hispanics. You don't like the fact that they don't have english speaking employees so you chose not to spend your money there. Where is the problem?

that might be the dumbest attempt to argue this I've ever seen in my life.
 
Those camps are for detention of United States citizens who fail to comply with martial law whenever the people coming in from the middle east with intent to cause us harm pop off a biological or radiological bomb.

??????????????????????????????

Do you actually have any proof to offer to substantiate this claim, or is this simplistic and paranoid rambling spurred by some obscure Internet "news" source? I've seen some strange claims aserted in the context of the immigration debate, but that takes the cake.

Maybe it's a veiled attempt at sarcasm and I missed it.

I have to say, there is very little in this thread, and within the national immigration debate in general, that doesn't seem to involve, 1) xenophobia, 2) paranoia, and 3) people's sense of entitlement. Truly sad.
 
Fox TV is now spanish? Discovery channel showing a program called AMERICAN chopper is now spanish? At least think before you open your trap. Just because you "spent a couple days down south" doesn't mean a damn thing. i've spent a couple days in panama, that doesn't mean I know what their culture is truely like.
Again, so? Fox knows a lot of hispanics live down there and they want to appeal to that audience. You don't own Fox so you don't get to decide what language they air their programs in. If you don't like it, change the channel or start your own broadcasting company but you, nor anyone else, has any right to tell Fox what it can and cannot air (I feel the FCC is in gross violation of the 1st amendment in their stupid "decency" standards for broadcast tv..).

oh, so what you're saying is that he has a choice. how about that. Wouldn't it be nice if all the people born here had a choice. wouldn't it be nice if all the people born and raised here in america could go out and ge a job without having to worry if they can speak spanish AND english or not.
Does his high school not offer any other foreign language?

Out of curiosity, what about a Puerto Rican who can't speak english? They're born US citizens yet have no obligation to learn the english language even if they move here. What's your thought on that?

yeah hold on let me go spend my day looking for a link on the internet to a news broadcast I saw a year ago. I'll get right on that.
www.google.com If it was broadcast a year ago chances are a few key terms such as the city, the news organization that reported it, and the words "welfare" and "taxes" should be able to find it. I wouldn't spend a whole day searching for it but would it kill you to spend ten minutes?

they hell they don't. part of not causing a burden on the country also involves learnign the language so that the companies, people and governements don't have to completely change the way they do things.
They don't. People and companies willingly change the way they do things. If companies didn't want to serve the community of non-english speaking hispanics, they wouldn't. They would lose customers but that's the price of capitalism. To force business to only operate in a single language goes against that concept.

If you don't like a business that operates in two languages, stay away from it. If you don't like a business that operates only in spanish then it should be even easier for you to stay away from it because they're not looking for you as a customer in the first place. They want spanish speaking customers most likely because the proprieters are hispanic. Let them run their businesses how they see fit and you can spend your money where you see fit.

that might be the dumbest attempt to argue this I've ever seen in my life.
Well at least back that up with an argument of your own. It's so easy to take the lazy way and just say "your argument sucks" as opposed to actually putting forth the effort to challenge my comments. Seriously, where's the problem? Did you have to get an interpreter to get your hair cut? No; I'm sure you were able to find an english speaking hair salon somewhere that served your needs.
 
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