Bush's New Programs

R

Republicrat

New member
http://www.alternet.org/story/32647/

Puts a lot of pieces of the puzzle together.

I can't help but ask why we need "detention camps" for illegal immigrants that cost hundreds of millions rather than just close our borders and hire some more border patrol for like 1/100th of the cost.

If we started deporting the illegals that were here now then the rest would get the picture and leave.

Not to mention that most of those caught now are just released even after commiting crimes. In essence they are "super citizens" above the rest of us in the U.S. They require no ID, can commit crimes without fear, and pay no taxes.

"I stand by this president's ability, inherent to being commander in chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don't think you need a warrant to do that," Graham added, volunteering to work with the administration to draft guidelines for how best to neutralize this alleged threat.
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:barf: :barf: :barf:
 
the worst is the ones that float up on my beaches down here every week and are granted immediate rights to stay here in the country. they spend hundreds of hours working to get here, spend days floating out at sea and then once they become "americans" they are instantly too lazy to even learn the language. So now I have to watch TV with spanish commercials thanks to out great boarder patrols and agreements with cubans.
 
If we started deporting the illegals that were here now then the rest would get the picture and leave.
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Jose: mira, enrique. they're sending everyone back, mang
Enrique: pues claro, they must not want us here. let's go home, essay

lol doubtful :p

So now I have to watch TV with spanish commercials
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you're being forced to watch spanish commercials? :confused: a remote control may be a wise investment

Or perhaps private broadcasting companies should only be allowed to advertise in english despite the fact english speakers are not their particular target audiences?
 
Actually I do believe that. It' what was done before and it worked.

Trust me, if they knew that being here illegally would result in deportation as well as jail (not to mention no possibility of a job) they would leave. Those that knowingly hire illegals also need to be punished in some way. Some cases are not so cut and dry but there are many instances where someone knowingly employs 30 illegals as a construction crew and nothing happens.

Look at the southern Mexico border, no one crosses it because they shoot to kill there or you end up in a hellhole prison.

I have no problem with have a legal immigration program, but we need to close everything before we even consider that.

Anyway, my point was that when you look at how easy illegals come and go now, I have a tough time believing we're building the camps for THEM.
 
Yeah, I agree that's kinda silly. Y'know at the very least we should have fun with the deportation and send them to other countries...
 
you're being forced to watch spanish commercials? a remote control may be a wise investment

Or perhaps private broadcasting companies should only be allowed to advertise in english despite the fact english speakers are not their particular target audiences?
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why should I have to switch channels to see english commercials for a company like Chevy when I'm living in america and watching american TV? if chevy wants to target a non english speaknig community they should be doing it in a non english speaking country. point is america bends over backwards and goes as far as forcing american children who were born here to learn spanish because they are too scared to force the spanish speaking immigrants to learn english. So in return we get to pay for companies of all sorts who have to pay to advertise twice. once in english and once in spanish. I lived in germany for over 2 years and I did not once expect the people there to comform to me. so why is it that american government and companies are conforming to a few that move here but refuse to learn the country's language? if you are gonig to live in a country, be it here, asia, europe or anyplace you should have to learn the language in at least some basic form to do so.
 
I live in PA and both the Lowes and HomeDepot last month pulled down all their old signs and put up new ones with the Spanish just as big as the English.

The shame is when I lived out in Utah for a while my Hispanic neighbors were the most patriotic and pro-freedom people there, and they get lumped in with the illegals just because of their skin color.
 
we have a FEW patriotic cubans here too. one young man was on the local news just before he shipped off to iraq and said he joined the army to thank a country that took his parents in when they came here. but I've also seem many who bitch and complain about america yet they keep trying to get their families here from cuba. :confused: if it's so bad then go back. it's also sad to see many people who grew up here to be turned down for jobs because they only speak english. a sales man I used to work with had it happen (telephone company selling to larger firms) and even just to work at the local cell phone store you have to be bilingual. So while most of the jobs are going over seas to begin with, the ones that ARE still here are harder to get if you grew up in this country.
 
With all the problems with illegal immigrants and drug cartels, I'm surprised the government hasn't passed a law forbidding banks from transferring money to Central America.

The hundreds of millions of dollars could be easily recouped by requiring proof of citizenship for welfare benefits. The welfare system is unsustainable anyway; we don't need illegal immigrants hastening its downfall. But I suppose that most of the money is payed by the border states, and they wouldn't want to give the money they save on welfare to the federal government for use in building detention centers.
 
Camps

Building Detention camps while leaving the borders wide open and now the ports. They get everything free and we don't. Those camps aren't for the illegals, they are for US. Any body that doesn't like your new "freedoms" will be there. That's what the patriot act is all about, any crime will be included and its right there in the bill. If you don't like RFID chips in your dogs, cats, horses, cows, chickens, turkeys, DEER, moose, ducks, etc in you go.You don't have your papers in order in you go. Any "emergency" will trigger this executive order. A Halliburton subsidiary has already started building them, one in Mississippi has Soviet signs over the entrance, baby. We can't pay our 77+ trillion debt so we are now the collateral. I used to a skeptic, but this is all documented. I'm awake now, and I hope everybody out there is waking up too. Go to the U.N. web site and pull up their mandates, but you better have on your seat belt. True lovers of God have got to go, because we'll fight, Which side of that fence are you on? Can't be on the middle because of the two rows or razor wire! The sword of of truth is meant to divide!
 
why should I have to switch channels to see english commercials for a company like Chevy when I'm living in america and watching american TV? if chevy wants to target a non english speaknig community they should be doing it in a non english speaking country. point is america bends over backwards and goes as far as forcing american children who were born here to learn spanish because they are too scared to force the spanish speaking immigrants to learn english. So in return we get to pay for companies of all sorts who have to pay to advertise twice. once in english and once in spanish. I lived in germany for over 2 years and I did not once expect the people there to comform to me. so why is it that american government and companies are conforming to a few that move here but refuse to learn the country's language? if you are gonig to live in a country, be it here, asia, europe or anyplace you should have to learn the language in at least some basic form to do so.
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You should switch channels because it's your only real choice. You don't own the channel, you don't control what is aired. You don't control the language the ads are to be aired in. If Chevy wants to advertise to a non-english speaking community then they will air their commercials in a community with many non-english speakers, which you seem to live in. Should broadcasters and advertisers be forced to limit their market to only english speakers simply because you don't like it?

Can you cite a single example of any case where a child has been forced to learn spanish because spanish speakers refused to learn english?

"we get to pay" No, you choose to pay those companies for their products and services. You don't like Chevy advertising in spanish? DOn't buy Chevy. That simple. You have no other recourse because for you to control the language in which they target their ads goes against the very concepts of free market capitalism.

How many spanish speaks do you know that have literally "refused" to learn the language? Can you pick up a second language and speak it fluently within a few month?

The hundreds of millions of dollars could be easily recouped by requiring proof of citizenship for welfare benefits.
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It utterly, utterly amazes me that someone is able to get welfare without proving legal citizenship or residency. :confused: That is beyond screwed up.
 
Someday, people will recognize that large-scale migration is a component of human culture and well-documented throughout world - and American - history. Retreating into a "deport everybody, shoot 'em at the borders" position is a bit like building a levee in New Orleans ... it will only hold so long, if at all.

Migration happens ... live with it, because in the grand scheme of things there isn't much you can do about it, at least not in the context of a civilized society.
 
Considering our current laws and the attitudes of liberals, I do not see any way to close our borders. It would take military and the intent to kill border crossers if necessary.

It seems to me that the best way to almost stop illegal immigration is to take a hard line toward those who hire them. I do not believe that the farmers and companies who hire them do not know that they are illegal. If they were heavily fined to the extent it would wipe them out for several infractions, and sent to jail for a time they would not hire them

Then it would be easier to stop drug runners with military type tactics and firepower that we should use.

HOwever, the politics of the situation from both parties prevents such actions. Unless we make some drastic changes we will never slow illegal entries very much.

Jerry
 
Migration happens ... live with it, because in the grand scheme of things there isn't much you can do about it, at least not in the context of a civilized society.
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The USA is the USA becasue of immigrants. No better place in the world

WildproudgreatgrandchildofimmigrantsAlaska
 
[The USA is the USA becasue of immigrants. No better place in the world.]

True, but they were not of the calibre of the illegals coming across today. Many coming now cannot speak the language, and some refuse to learn. They come to GET the medical help, and end up as leeches on our society.

Those who came here in the past came here to contribute, and learned to speak the language, and did not expect special favors.
If I had my way, no one who could not speak English would be allowed to immigrate here, and unless they either had a profession that would make them a living or had relatives here who could afford to take care of them until they became affluent enough to take care of themselves they could not come.

Jerry
 
I have to ask where you live. because to be honest, and no offense but you're talking out your ass on this. but here, I'll answer your non educated questions.

You should switch channels because it's your only real choice. You don't own the channel, you don't control what is aired. You don't control the language the ads are to be aired in. If Chevy wants to advertise to a non-english speaking community then they will air their commercials in a community with many non-english speakers, which you seem to live in. Should broadcasters and advertisers be forced to limit their market to only english speakers simply because you don't like it?
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I never said chevy shouldn't advertise to spanish speaking people. I said they shouldn't have to do it when they are advertising here in america. where the native language is english. go to spain or italy or columbia and see how many commercials are in english. And it's not just chevy. if you lived here, which you obviously don't from your comments, it's everything. wallgreens, banks, car makers, home depot, coffee shops, malls...I had to drive to 4 differnt hair cut places to find one that had people who could understand wtf I was even saying to them.

Can you cite a single example of any case where a child has been forced to learn spanish because spanish speakers refused to learn english?
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my nephew has to take and pass spanish to graduate high school. do you think they just suddenly one day said "oh. we should make EVERYONE learn spanish in case one day they decide to travel to spain." funny how other cultures like people from asian, germany, russia, italy are more than happy to learn english. yet here there are entire communities made up of people who can't make a simple sentence. stores with signs totally in spanish. street signs in english and spanish. the clenaing lady here in my building has been there 40 years and the other day couldn't even ask me where to plug in her vaccuum.

"we get to pay" No, you choose to pay those companies for their products and services. You don't like Chevy advertising in spanish? DOn't buy Chevy. That simple. You have no other recourse because for you to control the language in which they target their ads goes against the very concepts of free market capitalism.
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see my first answer.

How many spanish speaks do you know that have literally "refused" to learn the language? Can you pick up a second language and speak it fluently within a few month?
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I don't "know" any because I have no desire to "know" them. but living down here in little havana (that's the real name) I have seen MANY people who have been here for decades and can't speak anything more than "hi" or "yes". how hard do you think it would be for a terrorist or someone hiding from the government to just disappear in an area like this? if you know about what happened on 9/11 then you'll know it's pretty damn easy and that is why the people who flew those planes all were hiding down here while they planed the entire thing. There are so many immigrants here and so many people that can't speak the native language that one more doesn't get even second glance. every morning I wake up, and I mean EVERY morning I hear about another shooting in miami. when you have this many immigrants from 3rd world countries pooring into here, do you think they will just all the sudden become upstanding citizens? they are going to commit the same crimes here as they did where they were. in fact they'll do it even more because our jails are like a luxury hotel compared to where they used to live. I sit here all day watching boats, excuse me yachts going in and out of biscayne bay here in miami. literally hundreds if not thousands per day into just this one inlet. at least once per week we have people who come ashore, smuggled from some island in the caribbean and go running through the streets. do you really think the coast guard or anyone else in charge can keep and eye on all these people and immigrants? Canada as screwed up as it is with firearms and some other stuff actually has a damn good handle on it's boarders. you can't even get into the country if you have a felony arrest from what I understand. even a DUI can stop you. yet the US, the country that is under threat the most has it's boarders wide open. And on top of that is has it's major ports controlled by a foreign nation. and soon to be one with terroist ties. out second largest port in the country. our biggest cruise port in the country. and one that ges the majority of the nations oil imports we are just going to hand over.
 
It utterly, utterly amazes me that someone is able to get welfare without proving legal citizenship or residency. That is beyond screwed up.
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well here's something else to amaze you.

it was in the local news about a year ago a man from cuba who had been here for 40 years, give or take. He had never paid taxes (which I find hard to beleive but maybe they just meant SS taxes) and was now in his early 70s. he became a US citizen so he could start collecting SS benefits.
 
True, but they were not of the calibre of the illegals coming across today. Many coming now cannot speak the language, and some refuse to learn. They come to GET the medical help, and end up as leeches on our society.

Those who came here in the past came here to contribute, and learned to speak the language, and did not expect special favors.
If I had my way, no one who could not speak English would be allowed to immigrate here, and unless they either had a profession that would make them a living or had relatives here who could afford to take care of them until they became affluent enough to take care of themselves they could not come.
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I saw where you're from and you're probably seeing the same thing as I am here in south FLA.

I am actually all for shooting them when they try to cross the boarders but I know that won't happen. haha. I really have no problem with immigration as long as they do it legally. and I really don't understand why there even is such a thing as illegal immigrants. It seems to me the US is very easy to get into so why do people do it illegally? maybe it's not as easy as it seems. however I agree that as long as they make an effort to contribute to the community and learn enlgish (not in 2 days but I'd say within 6 months they should know the basics) they have just as much of a right to be here as the rest of us. Now if they did commit a crime and I'd say a felony, then they should be deported. our prisons are already over crowded enough so if they are not an actual US citizen then out you go.
 
Wildalaska, JerryM, rha600, others

Ah, immigration policies... What a sweet topic.

I'm yet to see another group of paid officials driven by so little common sense and so much absurd as those who handle immigration matters. To think of it: most of them are extremelly rude, disrespectful and restrictive towards those who wish to travel to US, or stay legally, hindering them with all kinds of artificially induced obstacles and mistreatment. But guess what? The ones who make it here illegally are suddenly embraced and treated even better than law abiding tax payers. This observation doesn't only make you shrug, it also delivers a message that's just as unmistakable as it is unbelievable: if you want to come to US, you'll be treated much better if you do it illegally!

[The USA is the USA becasue of immigrants. No better place in the world]

Immigration have always contributed to building prosperity in US. Unfortunately, this country turns into opposite of what it used to be: nowadays, it thwarts contributors and welcomes parasides. While this trend is both unfair and dangerous, it's also so persistent and obvious that I can't help but wonder on a boarderline with conspiracy theory: is it a part of someone's political agenda?

[edit] Illegal immigration is a big problem in US. So, what do politicians do to attend to it? Instead of guarding boarders, they make legal immigration so much harder! When I read about it it makes more sense that very same politicians introduce anti-drug laws, it must be another big problem in their circles.
 
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