Bush most unpopular president in history

The Iraq War is not as bad as Antietam... but didn't accomplish as much either.
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If democracy holds, there will be a significant accomplishment in the middle east. The signs are positive, contrary to what you might be hearing on Air America (are they still around?). I prefer to be optimistic rather than waving the white flag and demeaning the efforts soldiers lost and still out there.
 
Does the opposition not pay attention to Iraq because they simply don't like to have their preconceptions challenged or because they hate Bush too much?

IRAQI'S are to REASON it's going well there. Petraeus turned it from a central to local method that the Iraqis resisted and fed the AlQ line that Americans were dictating their will on them, to a local to central method that had the IRAQIS determining how things would which empowered them to determine who would lead. That cast AlQ as the enemy and AS LONG AS THE PROMISE IS KEPT will continue to bring peaceful self government, self security, and result in a strong ally in the heart of the middle east where our enemies live.

Remember, the United States was formed by a local to central method. We call it Federalism. The State's had Constitutions before the nation did.

Snatching defeat out of the hands of victory does nothing to hurt Republicans. The enemy considers enduring us and surviving as victory. Short sightedness and blindness caused by hatred are what emboldened them in the first place.
 
IRAQI'S are to REASON it's going well there. Petraeus turned it from a central to local method that the Iraqis resisted and fed the AlQ line that Americans were dictating their will on them, to a local to central method that had the IRAQIS determining how things would which empowered them to determine who would lead.
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I agree, so now that the Iraqis have that all straightened out, its time for us to declare victory and leave (if you are a Republican) or cut and run (if you are a democrat.

I don't see what the point of continuing to prop them up is, other than a lot of US businesses are making big money from rebuilding Iraq and supply the US military with materiel.
 
I don't see what the point of continuing to prop them up is,
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Reminds me of a dialog in the movie Enemy Below

[Seaman #1] How do you think the Captain new when to turn the ship?

[Seaman #2] Because he's the Captain. And that's why he is and you ain't!

Perhaps the people in charge have a little more information about the subject to base their decisions on than you or I do.
 
Leave it ALMOST done.......brilliant
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Huh, what is "almost done" what is the accomplishment, how is building
schools and roads in Iraq a plus for America, lets do that all over the world,
China, North Korea, Iran, etc, simply won't work guys, cultural and religious
differences are too great when we pull out a new boss will take over and
the killing will continue with billions of American tax dollars wasted.
Please try to understand we are not the worlds keeper nor should we be
at some point this crazy foreign policy will ruin this county.
 
I don't see what the point of continuing to prop them up is, other than a lot of US businesses are making big money from rebuilding Iraq and supply the US military with materiel.
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I agree one reason we are not leaving is because it is a big money maker to Defense Corporation to supply new arms to the US Military. That being said I could careless about American corporations making money selling arms, and materials to Iraq. Corporations provide a service to a paying customer. My beef is the US military should be withdrawn from the country and let the Iraqis defend themselves with the arms they buy from American Corporations. Maybe the DOD could sell the Iraqi Government some of our armaments so we don't have to ship so much of it back to the US. It is time to get out.
 
Another fallacy. Iraq is not in a civil war any more they LA is. There was an AlQ attempt to prompt a civil war by bombing sites they knew would inflame Sunnis and/or Shiites, but that has long since been stopped as AlQ has no strongholds left in Iraq and the Iraqi people saw through what was going on. Sunni and Shiite leaders agreed on a compac (fautua) that neither side would engage in 'the rule of the gun' any longer. Didn't make the headlines.

The news about Iraq isn't out in front anymore because progress isn't very sensational. Look at some though. You may not realize the dramatic differences that have taken place in only 8 months by General Petraeus' leadership. It is remarkable.
 
All you Bush defenders need to take a cold shower and then look at the primary voting.

Why do you think that a majority of Americans, Republican, Democrat or Independent have bounced "conservatism" on its head?

Conservatism, as served up by the Bushmaster, is political suicide. What part of this do you fail to understand?

Kowboy
 
Wuluf made an excellent point when he brought up Truman. It's just way too early to make any judgements about GW's legacy, and I could care less about his current poll numbers- and one of the reasons that I still support him is that he could care less too.
 
Perhaps the people in charge have a little more information about the subject to base their decisions on than you or I do.
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Or maybe not. The Bush administration has been wrong about a lot of things in Iraq, including weapons of mass destruction, the reception we would get from the people we liberated, the number of troops we would need, and the amount of time we would be there after Saddam was evicted. Maybe they don't know anymore than the rest of us. Andy maybe they don't know how to interpret what they do know.

Another fallacy. Iraq is not in a civil war any more they LA is
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I agree. There is no civil war. Petraeus has done an outstanding job. So if they are not in civil war, and if they have a viable democracy now, there is no reason for us to still be there.
 
When we leave, if there is not a suitable Iraqi force in place, a vacuum will be left and some WILL fill it. If Iraq is still unable to defend it's self then we lose the ally. AlQ raises a flag or Iran gets satisfaction for the long war with Iraq.

Do you not realize that? Is that your idea of a good result?

There are things that quippy lines and just quitting don't address. Long hard work yields long hard results. Half done is a waste of time, money, and in this case lives.

Do you believe that AlQ is our enemy and still wants to inflict as much damage on America via American dead as possible?

Do you believe they are satisfied with being evicted from Afghanistan, then Iraq, and now getting killed in Pakistan?

Do you believe they are winning or losing their war on us?

Do you believe they are now biding their time to see if the United States will continue hunting them down and killing them after the '08 election.

Or do you believe this is all just scare tactics and money grubbing. That AlQ will go off the grid and join Obama in unity and change.

That Iraq left undefended and yet unable to defend it's self will be left alone.

That our leaving won't be a declared victory for AlQ.

Few things are as serious as war. Top spot. Quippy lines and quitting contribute nothing.

What do you REALLY believe is REALLY the very serious reality of the situation.....
 
I agree there will be a power vacuum when we leave. Big deal. That's there problem, not ours. A bunch of them will kill each other. Maybe the Iranians will get involved and a bunch of them will get killed too.

Eventually the smoke will clear, and there will be far less potential enemies there, because most of them will have been killed by their fellow countrymen.

If we don't like the new owners, we can always reinvade later. In the meanwhile, we saved a lot of money and US soldiers.

I think all your questions about Al Qaeda are irrelevant. Al Qaeda was not present in Iraq to a significant degree until after we arrived. I believe our continued presence there likely is a recruiting tool for Al Qaeda.
 
I think all your questions about Al Qaeda are irrelevant. Al Qaeda was not present in Iraq to a significant degree until after we arrived. I believe our continued presence there likely is a recruiting tool for Al Qaeda.
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Hence the fight them there not here mindset. Our military is equipped to win there, our civilians are not here. They are (were) in one place in mass there, they mix in with few numbers here.

ALL of the questions are irrelevent to you are they.

So the fact that AlQ is our enemy and still wants to inflict as much damage on America via American dead as possible is irrelevent to you?

That they are winning or losing their war on us is irrelevent to you? THAT would be the ultimate recruiting tool. Getting their ass stomped probably isn't it.

That they are now biding their time to see if the United States will continue hunting them down and killing them after the '08 election is irrelevent to you?

That our leaving won't be a declared victory for AlQ is irrelevent to you? Another excellent recruiting tool no?

And re-invading later is really good idea to you?

REALLY?????
 
I believe Iraq was a distraction (from tracking down Al Qaeda in general and Bin Laden in particular) that we didn't need. GHW Bush stopped short of taking Baghdad in 1992 because he was smart enough to know that taking out Saddam would create a power vacuum that we could not extract ourselves from. GW Bush (who is smarter than people give him credit for, but that's not saying much) thought his old man didn't finish the job and was looking for any excuse to invade Iraq. And here we are; we can stay in Iraq or we can leave, and each choice is worse than the other.

The war against Islamic terrorists was in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and on our own borders -- and maybe spilling over into Northern Africa. The war in Iraq is GW's personal vendetta; maybe one day an international court will hang him for it.

BTW, "The Surge" is working. But what's the end game? (I don't think there is one)
 
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