Bump in the night--Problems with this "drill"?

Prepare to repel boarders.

I like that. :D

Assuming you got a positive ID on the intruder, could wait behind cover, and were positive of Gun Safety rule#4 (the know what's behind your target part), it sounds like you covered your bases. You are certainly getting good opinions on all the other stuff to consider too!
 
My kids are now grown and I keep a Ruger Security-Six 357 and a Taurus MILPRO 40 or 45 on my nightstand next to the LED flashlight. I've got a Ruger Mini 14 w/30rd mag and a 12ga, semi-auto shotty in the closet with 00 buck. And a very noisey little dog as a first alert along with an alarm system. But if a BG really wants in your home all they have to do is feed the dog or worse, thay also know it takes 20-30mins for the police to arrive on a burgler alarm. I don't take any chances with my familys welfare. Since all the bedrooms are off a single hall with a door I usually keep that locked at night also just to slow them down.
 
Real world time.

Fill plastic bag with empty soda/beer cans. Have a friend wait until you're fast asleep at oh-dark-thirty and then pour the bag onto the kitchen floor. Wake up. Move to your selected position. Stop. Deep breath & self-assess.

  • Blurred vision from accumulated "sleep" gunk in your eyes?
  • Stuffy nose/sinuses from sleeping - are your sniffling from that or a runny nose?
  • Some folks (smokers or not) cough when first getting up. Did you? How much?
  • How does the body feel? Stiff? Any hands/arms tingling from awkward sleeping positions?
  • Auditory - can you hear anything over your heart pounding in your ears and/or your own breathing?

When alerted and you hop out of bed, your first actions are to acquire arms and try to assess the immediacy of the threat. Donning shoes or clothing can wait until you know if time permits. You may not appear to be the most "macho" guy, standing at your bedroom door au naturel or in your BVD's with Mr. Willie peeking out the fly, but it's better than being caught while getting dressed. Sliding feet into good fitting slippers or loafers may protect your feet against debris during a battle. I'd save noisy flip-flops for the beach.

Tactically, sending a dog out to investigate the sound is good, provided the dog will bark aggressively at a non-family member. And provided you will maintain self-control if the dog is killed.

I won't count on the racking shotgun being a deterrent and therefore recommend against using it as a tactic. In my view, a bonafide armed intruder's first indication that a resident is present should be the muzzle flash of your weapon. Unarmed intruders first see your ultra-bright tac-light blinding them.

My preferred shotgun load is #4 buck for HD. However, I typically have two handguns available as first response. The ammo-carrier sling has six 00-buck and 4 slugs, for if it comes to that point I'm rounding off corners with slugs to reach the threat.

Tactically, unless there is some reason to leave the room (children for example), stay put. If your door is at the top of the stairs, a kneeling position allows you to see further away from the stairwell and will probably be more surprising to the intruder.

Living with 3 cats taught me the tactical advantages of night lights in strategic places, such as the wall next to stairwells, in bathrooms to illuminate hallways, etc.
 
In my view, a bonafide armed intruder's first indication that a resident is present should be the muzzle flash of your weapon. Unarmed intruders first see your ultra-bright tac-light blinding them.

Solid on all counts, but I have an issue with this one comment. How do you distinguish between armed and unarmed? If you use your tac light, and they are armed, all that "don't rack the shotgun cuz they know where you are" stuff goes out the window, and they shoot in the direction of the light. If you don't use your tac light, what if they aren't armed?

If you shoot an unarmed intruder, even in your home, even if legal in your state, YOU MAY STILL HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF IN COURT! This can be extrodinarily expensive, time consuming, and stress inducing.

I stand by my original idea of racking the shotgun as a deterant. It's worked before, a lot, and may keep me from shooting the unarmed. If they are unarmed, chances are they aren't coming upstairs. If they are, I still have the drop.

Anyway, if I am positive there is an intruder, I want 911 one hear me call out to them that I am armed and the police are on their way. They leave, good. They stay, I have a strong case for self defense and most likely would not be charged.
 
If you shoot an unarmed intruder, even in your home, even if legal in your state, YOU MAY STILL HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF IN COURT!

Again, know your state laws. In many states you are protected from civil suits if you are not charged in the shooting (it was ruled justified). In many states as well, the burden of proof lies with the state. Meaning that the state must prove that the shooting was not justified, not vice-versa.

I have to agree w/Bill, the only time an intruder should know where I am is when he sees my muzzle flash - armed or not.
 
Knowing the law doesn't mean an overzealous D.A. or prosecuter won't try to charge you. And although you are more protected in many states against civil suits, I'm more worried about the criminal charges.
True, the burden lies with the state, but that means a trial, and you most likely will be found not guilty. However, I don't know if you've ever had to defend yourself in court but the costs, in the form of money, time, and mental health, are much more tramatic than you can imagine.
Personally, I would prefer an open-and-shut case of self defense.
Or even better, an incident that ends without a shot having to be fired in the first place.
 
True, the burden lies with the state, but that means a trial, and you most likely will be found not guilty
.

Actually the burden lies with you. You must show at least in Ohio that you believed yourself or your family to be in "In danger of serious bodily harm" . At least its marginal if at home that you have a duty to retreat. No castle doctrine here....


Godbless......
 
Solid on all counts, but I have an issue with this one comment. How do you distinguish between armed and unarmed? If you use your tac light, and they are armed, all that "don't rack the shotgun cuz they know where you are" stuff goes out the window, and they shoot in the direction of the light. If you don't use your tac light, what if they aren't armed?

As I mentioned in a previous post, you can have a tactical advantage for less than about $35.00. Night lights placed in strategic locations can illuminate a dark house quite well enough to allow you to see someone and if they are carrying something in their hand(s).

As to an intruder in your home -- most laws that require retreat also imply that retreat must be carried out only if you can do so safely. Doubtful if an intruder is already in your home. Double that if you have family living with you as you cannot abandon children to the whims of a felon.

Armed or not - does it matter?
Why are there so many daytime burglaries? Because a thief who steals for monetary gain wants to avoid contact with residents. Thinking this through a bit;
  1. Most people sleep in their homes at night.
  2. A burglar, seeking solely monetary gain, avoids occupied homes.
  3. Burglary of an occupied residence is not the act of a rational mind.
  4. Someone breaking into my home is a felon (burglary)
  5. Gov't analysis shows a high percentage of burglars obtain a kitchen knife for defense during a burglary and discard it in a drawer before leaving.
  6. A thief will flee once he discovers the dwelling is occupied. (does not apply if said thief will commit opportunity crimes-against-persons).

I have a felon in my home, at night, which indicates an irrational mind. Since most people are home at night to sleep, one must assume that thievery is not his primary goal. And one must assume, statistically, there is a high probability that he has armed himself after entry.

I am now defending myself and/or family, friends or guests, in the dark, against an irrational felon, who is likely armed, who's primary intent is more than mere theft.

A confrontation inside a home is likely to occur at a distance of 21-feet or much less. At 21-feet an attacker can disable a LEO before he can draw his gun. Average room distances are about 10-feet. In this close-range confrontation the intruder is wide awake, dressed, has brought any equipment he needs and is prepared for a fight-or-flight situation. The resident is likely in thin pajamas, his BVD's or nothing at all, tired yet pushed by adrenaline, possibly unable to see clearly (sleep, lack of glasses, darkness, etc.) -- so the intruder has a huge advantage.

So I'm defending my home against an irrational felon in close quarters, who may be armed, who's intent is likely more dire than mere theft and who has many tactical advantages over me or my family.

Why should I not be in fear for my life?

Nota Bene: I don't want to be forced to kill anyone and if I see he is unarmed, I may give him every opportunity to surrender or flee. I'm under no obligation to believe any statements an irrational felon makes about his intentions. Nor am I under any obligation to believe he is harmless because he dropped a weapon.
 
ok i have a simple solution for the racking the slide being used as a deterrent. all we need to do is make a small speaker that fits into a corner in the main room of your house. you have a remote control so that when you press the button a slide racking sound is made from that speaker. now the intruder thinks there is someone in the house with a shotgun but he has no idea where it came from. also have this setup so that when an alarm is set this sound is made.

million dollar idea i tell ya.
 
I'll pay an undocumented worker to make slide racking sounds every fifteen minutes while I sleep for eight hours. It's one of those "jobs nobody else wants".:D


Godbless......
 
Was just starting to read through the thread and caught this...

Shotgun Willy said:
Day Dreamer, consider this, for the first 15 feet or so it's still in the wadding and he'll get the entire load in one spot. Personally I'm fond of #1 buck, but for inside the house it's bird shot. Don't want to have to replace more walls than necessary and it'll definitely get the job done.
Bill

I'm sorry, but the last thing I'll be concerned about in a home defense situation is the safety of my walls.
 
To get really gruesome, I'd say that compared to cleaning up all the... uhh shall we say "biological matter" left over after a shooting, patching a few .223 or .45 holes would not be that much of a chore.:barf:

As someone else said--its not like you're trying to hold off the Red Army--there won't be THAT many bullet holes.
 
Actually, when I commented on the walls I was making a point about over penetration. Don't always know who's on the other side or how far that round will go if it finds a window.

As far as taking on the Red Army, well I grew up 'knowing' that I'd have to do just that. Then they went and collapsed, shucks (NOT).
 
Actually the burden lies with you. You must show at least in Ohio that you believed yourself or your family to be in "In danger of serious bodily harm" . At least its marginal if at home that you have a duty to retreat. No castle doctrine here....


Godbless......


Not true. The burden of proof IS on the state or who ever the prosecutor is.
 
Burden of proof.......................................State
Burden of defense attorney bill (criminal)......YOU (even if you win or never see court)
Burden of defense attorney bill (civil)...........YOU (portion recoverable IF you prevaill in court AND the other party can even pay)

Expect to pay a minimum of $10,000 in defense attorney bills if you commit homicide (Justifiable or not). That goes up to $50 -$75 thousand is if goes to court.

Burden of proof of WHAT is the question here. You HAVE committed a homicide. You shot and killed a human being with a firearm. You're probabley not denying it and therefore the burden is now whether or not it was justified......that IS going to be your burden to prove. Lawyers/prosecuters are interested in wins, not truths. Prosecuters are politicians and civil lawyers are money hungry. Prosecuters make thier LIVING PROSECUTING people, not sympathizing for them. Civil lawyers twist facts to get your money for thier clients and hence for themselves. NOBODY involved is going to say ' AWW hell Bill, looks like a good shoot to me, go on home and don't give it another thought'.
 
zex ~

Sort of.

In order to claim self-defense, you must first admit that you did shoot the other person, that you intended to do it, and that you did so with the complete understanding that your actions could have led to the person's death.

In other words, you just handed the state a complete confession to homicide.

In order to avoid a conviction for homicide after making all those damaging admissions, you must show the court why you did what you did, and how it was the only action that a reasonable and prudent person would have taken under the same circumstances.

pax
 
Pax,

This is why knowing the name of a good attorney is a Good Thing(tm). In most jurisdictions the DA will take it to a Grand Jury for indictment first. Depending on the locale and make up of said grand jury, you may stop right there.

There was one case here in the PRK some years ago where the resident dialed 911 after arming himself. At one point he put down the phone after saying he was going to block the door. The tape reveals a high-pitched scream and "No! No!" before four shots are heard. The guy, unfortunately comes on and breathlessly says "I just shot him, you better get an ambulance here quick!" In the Grand Jury indictment the prosecutor glossed over the man's protection of his infant son in the same room, saying he could have fled out a window. Jurors returned no-true-bill after hearing the tape, saying it chilled everyone to the bone to hear a man scream like that.
 
Burden is on you not the state! (LONG)

Zex please read what is exaclty in the Ohio Attorney General's CC Law Pamplet. This is a direct quote...

Self-Defense

Depending on the specific facts of the situation, an accused person
may claim that use of deadly force was justified to excuse his or her
actions, which would otherwise be a crime. Self-defense or the defense
of another is an affirmative defense that an accused may assert against a
criminal charge for an assault or homicide offense. The term “affirmative
defense” means the accused, not the prosecutor, must prove by a
preponderance of the evidence that he acted in self-defense or in defense of another. In other words, the defendant must prove that it is more
probable than not that his use of deadly force was necessary due to the
circumstances of the situation. Whether this affirmative defense applies to the situation or whether it will likely succeed against criminal charges depends heavily on the specific facts and circumstances of each situation. The Ohio Supreme Court has explained that a defendant must prove three conditions to establish that he acted in defense of himself or another.

Condition 1: Defendant Is Not At Fault

First, the defendant must prove that he was not at fault for creating
the situation. The defendant cannot be the first aggressor or initiator.
However, in proving the victim’s fault, a defendant cannot point to other
unrelated situations where the victim was the aggressor. Remember, the
focus is on the specific facts of the situation at hand.
If you escalate a confrontation by throwing the first punch, attacking,
or drawing your handgun, you are the aggressor. Most likely in this
situation, you cannot legitimately claim self-defense nor would you
likely succeed in proving your affirmative defense.
If you have no means to escape the other person’s attack and you
reasonably, honestly believe that you are about to be killed or receive
serious bodily harm, you may be able to use deadly force if that is the
only way for you to escape that danger.
Condition 2: Reasonable and Honest Belief of Danger
Second, the defendant must prove that, at the time, he had a real belief
that he was in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm and that
his use of deadly force was the only way to escape that danger. Bear
in mind that deadly force may only be used to protect against serious
bodily harm or death. The key word is serious.
In deciding whether the bodily harm was serious, the judge or jury
can consider how the victim attacked the defendant, any weapon the
victim had, and how he used it against the defendant. Minor bruises or
bumps from a scuffle do not meet the legal definition of serious. In court
cases, rape has been determined to be serious bodily harm, as has being
attacked with scissors. Serious bodily harm may also result from being
struck with an object that can cause damage, such as a baseball bat or a
wooden club. Important is the defendant’s belief that he is in immediate serious danger. The circumstances and conditions of the situation or
confrontation must cause the defendant to reasonably and honestly
believe that he is about to be killed or receive serious bodily harm.
In deciding if the belief was reasonable and honest, the judge or jury
will envision themselves in the defendant’s “shoes” and consider his
physical characteristics, emotional state, mental status, and knowledge
as well as the victim’s actions and words. The victim must have acted
in a threatening manner. Words alone, regardless of how abusive or
provoking, or threats of future harm (“I’m going to kill you tomorrow”)
do not justify the use of deadly force. If the person can escape danger by
means such as leaving or using less than deadly force, he must use those
means. Whether the defendant or the victim was under the influence of drugs or alcohol may also be considered.

Condition 3: Duty to Retreat

A defendant must show that he did not have a duty to retreat or avoid
the danger. A person must retreat or avoid danger by leaving or voicing
his intention to leave and ending his participation in the confrontation.

If the person retreats and the other continues to fight, the person who
left the confrontation may be later justified in using deadly force when
he can prove all three conditions of self-defense existed, even if he was
honestly mistaken about the existence of immediate danger.
In Ohio, there is no duty to retreat from one’s own home. There is no
duty to retreat if there is no manner by which you can retreat safely.
However, being in one’s own home is not a license to use deadly force
against an attacker. The person who is attacked in his own home,
without fault of his own, may stand his ground and use deadly force
only if he reasonably and honestly believed that deadly force was
necessary to prevent serious bodily harm or death. If the person does
not have this belief or he created the confrontation, he cannot use deadly
force and must leave the situation, even if he is in his own home.

Defense of Others

A person may defend another only if the protected person would have
had the right to use self-defense. Under Ohio law, a person may defend
family members, friends or strangers. However, just as if he were
protecting himself, a person cannot use any more force than is reasonable
and necessary to prevent the harm threatened. A defendant, who claims he used deadly force to protect another, has to prove that he reasonably and honestly believed that the person he protected was in immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death and that deadly force was the only way to protect the person from that danger. Furthermore, the defendant must also show that the protected person was not at fault for creating the situation and did not have a duty to leave or avoid the situation.

Conclusion: Self-Defense Issues

If the defendant fails to prove any one of the three conditions for selfdefense
or defense of another, he fails to justify his use of deadly force. If
convicted, an individual will be sentenced accordingly.
"

I don't agree with the duty to retreat part but that is the current law. HB225 may have some effect on changing part of that. Though right now it only deals with discharging from a vehicle or vessel.

Godbless....
 
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