Bullets for hunting

[Nathan]

Its a variation of slob hunting, where people doing what they shouldn't besmirches the people who can, and do what they should.

If you look at my post about taking a long shot, the thing you should get from it is that what I'm asking for is a good reason why you had to take the uber long shot. And, to me, desire to fill a tag alone isn't a good enough reason. Nor is the cost of what you spent.

I think you eloquently explained the problem of posting a technical question about bullets.

I believe I’m not taking this out of context, but isn’t calling long range hunting a “variation of slob hunting” kind of a personal insult? Fortunately, my skin is thick enough to handle that, but….

Do you call archery hunters “a variation of slob hunting”? Seriously, archery hunting close or far must consider the animals reaction to the bow because the deer actually hear the shot, think somebody shot a bow, then start to run before the arrow hits them.

Long range hunters fire, hit the game, then the sound gets there, then the deer moves. Now, if the game is moving right before/during the shot that is different. At 600 yds, time of flight is 0.71s for the last thing I put in the solver.

Somebody, who actually studies what game is doing knows when the animal is stopped. You get an idea about it after watching 1000’s of animals.

Now, I agree on one point. Do I need a long range rifle? Probably not. Do I need a rifle option? Shotgun good enough? Single shot good enough? Muzzleloader enough? Knife good enough? I’m just saying game has been taken with all kinds of weapons. Why would we as shooters want to position ourselves as controllers of other individuals choices?

I’m off topic. I asked. Got some answers, appreciate the chat, but some of it just wasn’t helpful. One thing you might consider is I can pretty much setup my own loading tests, techniques and practice with great success. I generally post things to spur up conversation about activities I’m doing. Maybe share something helpful or learn something from you all. At least generate some traffic for the site.

 

[44 AMP]

I believe I’m not taking this out of context, but isn’t calling long range hunting a “variation of slob hunting” kind of a personal insult?

I'm not talking about long range hunting by people who know what they are doing, and have the skills and tools to reasonably ensure success. I'm talking about the "slob" who takes long range shots they can't make, (except as a fluke) just because they can, having read their rifle can do it, and they don't want to go home with an empty tag.

Shooting without reasonably knowing the range, maybe without knowing the drop of your round, without having learned to read the wind, and how to compensate for that, people claiming skill when in reality they are just guessing.

Like the slob shotgunner shooting every bird he sees, mostly "skybusting" shooting at birds well out of effective range. And worse, the "sound shooters" (never actually met one of those, thankfully) be we've all heard of them, people (always "city people) who shoot at the sound of a "deer in the bushes"...etc.

These are the kind of people I mean to insult, because their actions insult the rest of us and make non-hunters think all hunters are like that.

I spent many years varmint hunting for recreation. Shooting woodchuck down to prairie dogs at ranges of 300yds plus. A few much longer shots I made, as well. I know the skill needed to connect with a small target at long range. And, I respect that.

I'm also confident of my personal ability to make a long range shot on big game, if I HAD to. But I don't have to. Its sport hunting, and its ok for the game to "win" sometimes.

Who's the bigger loser, the guy who goes home with an unfilled tag because he decided not to take a long range shot, or the guy who did, and blew it, only wounded the game, which he later lost?? Both go home with empty tags, but only one meets my standard of ethical...

Big difference to me, between having worked at it and developed the skill to make a long range game shot and some yahoo taking a long range shot because he saw a guy on U Tube who said he could do it....

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I'm not talking about long range hunting by people who know what they are doing, and have the skills and tools to reasonably ensure success.

So they don't need to write letters, long hand, in triplicate, explaining why they had to take the shot?

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I limit myself to 150 yrds no matter the rifle in hand. I like that 150 distance and its a comfortable shot for me. I rather give a deer a pass at 200 in hopes I'll see it again perhaps closer in a day or two later than shoot and miss or worse wound and never see again. I have two main rifles for deer. Savage 300 and Rem 270 win. Both are very capable for long distance shots but. >I unlike so many. Have patience and I know my limitations.

 

[44 AMP]

So they don't need to write letters, long hand, in triplicate, explaining why they had to take the shot?

No, they still do. I'm strict.

 

[Shadow9mm]

No, they still do. I'm strict.

Can you use carbon paper and just push hard?

 

[reynolds357]

I find it odd that a bow hunter who shoots a deer at 50 yards is considered a great hunter, but a rifle hunter who shoots a deer at 500 is considered irresponsible. IMO, the latter is a statistically higher kill. (I see nothing wrong with either)

 

[Shadow9mm]

I find it odd that a bow hunter who shoots a deer at 50 yards is considered a great hunter, but a rifle hunter who shoots a deer at 500 is considered irresponsible. IMO, the latter is a statistically higher kill. (I see nothing wrong with either)

For me with archery im comfortable in the 50-60 yd range. Beyond that im not comfortable. Most of that is that i dont have a good place to regularly practice that far.

In my mind taking a 500yd rifle shot cleanly no warm up is similar to taking a 150yd shot with a bow. Sure it can be done, but you have to really have your skills honed and conditions have to be ideal. In either case i would do my best to get in closer if at all possible.

 

[reynolds357]

For me with archery im comfortable in the 50-60 yd range. Beyond that im not comfortable. Most of that is that i dont have a good place to regularly practice that far.

In my mind taking a 500yd rifle shot cleanly no warm up is similar to taking a 150yd shot with a bow. Sure it can be done, but you have to really have your skills honed and conditions have to be ideal. In either case i would do my best to get in closer if at all possible.

I shoot both bow and rifle. To me, any day, any circumstance, warmed up, cold, etc.etc. the 500 yard rifle shot is always easier. Not that 50 is a hard shot with a bow, but 500 is a much easier shot with proper rifle, scope, and rests. I only shoot long out of my towers where I have proper rests. No way I would shoot 500 off hand or off a limb. Even with a 320 fps bow, I have gotten string jumped enough to turn a good shot into a dog's have to run the deer down shot.

 

[old roper]

What funny to me you have someone shooting 300 Sherman and asking what bullets to use. The guy owns right to Sherman post on LRH site and gives load data plus bullets for different calibers chamber for the Sherman.

 

[reynolds357]

What funny to me you have someone shooting 300 Sherman and asking what bullets to use. The guy owns right to Sherman post on LRH site and gives load data plus bullets for different calibers chamber for the Sherman.

I don't find that funny. Maybe he just enjoys a discussion and wants a conversation starter. Maybe he really is curious about monolithic bullet performance at long distance.

 

[44 AMP]

Maybe something has kept him away from the thread for a week, but he hasn't been back since the long range hunting bullets he was interested in were for the .300 Sherman and ranges of 6-700yds..."for now..."

 

[Nathan]

What funny to me you have someone shooting 300 Sherman and asking what bullets to use. The guy owns right to Sherman post on LRH site and gives load data plus bullets for different calibers chamber for the Sherman.

I’ve seen the load data. There is very little. I haven’t asked Rich, but I’m sure he would give advice if I called again.

I view choosing bullets as kind of a personal choice and only tied to cartridge by velocity and throat.

I make my own load data with the help of Quickload.

Maybe something has kept him away from the thread for a week, but he hasn't been back since the long range hunting bullets he was interested in were for the .300 Sherman and ranges of 6-700yds..."for now..."

I feel like I’m keeping up with the posts. I sure hope it hasn’t been a whole week since I’ve been on The Firing Line!

Maybe he really is curious about monolithic bullet performance at long distance.

I am. I watch quite a bit of SimpleMindedFella on YouTube. Not sure who else is even really digging into bullet performance in a consistent and accurate manner.

 

[bacardisteve]

I just ordered some hammer bullets to try in my 257wby. They expand at a pretty low velocity compared to other mono bullets. The barnes lrx also expands at lower velocity compared to their other offerings. My longest shot with the lrx on game was 468yds with a pass through and expansion. Not suprising considering the little 101gr pill was still traveling 2600fps when it impacted.

 

[Nathan]

99% of hunters sight their rifle in at 100 yards. And shoot maybe 20 rounds during the process. As they dont want to spend money on ammunition, they may fire 1-3 shots before each hunting season. and make their second box last 7 years.

Got a solution for this? It drives me nuts. It is right up there with the idea that a $100 scope is “good nuf”.

Personally, I tend to shoot 100 or so rounds per year at 100-300 for load development and save a few for steel on each of those days.

When complete I go to a steel range and work out the scope and my technique with hunting rests a couple times.

I know this isn’t quite enough, but it leaves me feeling confident to 1/4 mi or so.

 

[totaldla]

Very few places for the average guy to practice. I.e. I live in a gun friendly area and have easy access to a 100yd range. But there are only two 400yd range spots in the entire valley. And I don't have a longer place unless I drive way out in nowhere.

 

[44 AMP]

It drives me nuts. It is right up there with the idea that a $100 scope is “good nuf”.

I got several scopes that I paid $100 or less that I think are plenty "good nuf!"


Some of them, I'm pretty sure are older than you are. A couple of them are older than I am, and were killing deer just fine in the early 50s....

Why would how much I paid drive you nuts?

 

[Unclenick]

For less than many of the scopes people invest in, a laser range finder can be had to eliminate estimating. Ones for 400 yards or less are under $50 now. Some have internal electronic levels and automatically compensate for shooting up or downhill, giving you the right distance for your sight adjustment directly. Not how I learned, but it works.