bullet proof backpacks for schools
- Thread starter adamBomb
- Start date
2damnold4this
New member
There are big differences between a IIIA clipboard or soft armor, a III plate and a level IV plate.
IIIa stops handgun ammunition, III is rated to stop multiple hits of some rifle rounds and level IV is rated to stop one 30-06 ap round. Some level III plates are "stand alone" and others require IIIA body armor to be used with them. Rifle plates are heavy and expensive.
It's your choice but I'm not gonna stuff an 8 1/2 pound rifle plate in a backpack on the remote chance that someone might shoot me in the backpack with a rifle.
IIIa stops handgun ammunition, III is rated to stop multiple hits of some rifle rounds and level IV is rated to stop one 30-06 ap round. Some level III plates are "stand alone" and others require IIIA body armor to be used with them. Rifle plates are heavy and expensive.
It's your choice but I'm not gonna stuff an 8 1/2 pound rifle plate in a backpack on the remote chance that someone might shoot me in the backpack with a rifle.
Sounds gimmicky to me. Just a play on the recent few school shootings to sell stuff.
Not to mention the weight, you also have to have the backpack on (shooting you as you are running) or held up in front of you for it to be useful at the exact time of being shot. A clipboard is the same thing or worse. You have to have it in your hands and have the frame of mind to try and deflect bullets with a 10"x14" clipboard as bullets come flying at you while you presumably are trying to flee and/or hide.
It is still offensive only. You would still have to deal with an active shooter who would probably not stop until you, and everyone around you, are dead anyway unless it is a specific targeted shooting, in which case you might not be the target anyway.
Might sound good on the surface, but a bit of thought will prove it is just a marketing strategy for overpriced item playing on people fears that do not really understand firearms and being in a stressful situation like that.
Just my opinion.
Not to mention the weight, you also have to have the backpack on (shooting you as you are running) or held up in front of you for it to be useful at the exact time of being shot. A clipboard is the same thing or worse. You have to have it in your hands and have the frame of mind to try and deflect bullets with a 10"x14" clipboard as bullets come flying at you while you presumably are trying to flee and/or hide.
It is still offensive only. You would still have to deal with an active shooter who would probably not stop until you, and everyone around you, are dead anyway unless it is a specific targeted shooting, in which case you might not be the target anyway.
Might sound good on the surface, but a bit of thought will prove it is just a marketing strategy for overpriced item playing on people fears that do not really understand firearms and being in a stressful situation like that.
Just my opinion.
I see. Do you suppose that those who died in the various school shootings, and other places having a gun was restricted, were happy they followed the "rules"?
These days, what jobs dont restrict you from having a gun on your person?
Its pretty amazing at how well, and easily, the conditioning of the general public has progressed, if not accelerated. People readily accept being disarmed and forced to be defenseless, rather than being politically incorrect, and violate the rules, even if they are contrary to their safety. Really quite amazing.
Bullet Resistant backpacks aren't the worst idea I've heard, for an absurd situation like public schools. I don't know anything about the body armour in terms of construction or their rating system. I would expect that the material used in them would be lighter than an equi-protectective steel plate, but I certainly don't know it for a fact.
A square-foot of 1/4" thick 4340 steel weighs 34 ounces (1.05 kg.) or about 3/4 what my biochemistry text weighs. I'D probably carry the equivalent of 1.5 textbooks (two armour plates) around if I thought it substantially reduced the chances of something penetrating my backpack and causing me injury during an active-shooter scenario.
Problem with RHA steel is that it's detectable in metal detectors. By the time the contents of your backpack is determined and explained, you lose the advantage of a level of protection not known to the would-be active shooter. It might still be worth it.
A square-foot of 1/4" thick 4340 steel weighs 34 ounces (1.05 kg.) or about 3/4 what my biochemistry text weighs. I'D probably carry the equivalent of 1.5 textbooks (two armour plates) around if I thought it substantially reduced the chances of something penetrating my backpack and causing me injury during an active-shooter scenario.
Problem with RHA steel is that it's detectable in metal detectors. By the time the contents of your backpack is determined and explained, you lose the advantage of a level of protection not known to the would-be active shooter. It might still be worth it.
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2damnold4this
New member
2.1 KG is about 74 ounces.
A 10x12 AR500 "shooters cut" level III plate weighs about 8 lbs. Would adding an addition 8 lbs to a backpack make you safer?
Books have some ballistic protection.
Mathematically challenged.
You're as right as you can be. The metric mass should be 1.05 kg. I'll make that correction. Thank you for pointing it out.
I'm not familiar with the AR500 plate, but I accept your numbers. I think the reason I went with RHS/RHA is that it can be cut to whatever dimensions work best for a particular backpack. I have no idea what size options, if any, I might have with the AR500 plate.
I think you're right about the books having ballistic stop potential, but I ignored it for the sake of coming up with a "worst case" estimation. Just spitballing, I envisioned a 1/4" plate at the "front" of the backpack (closest to the wearer) and another plate the same thickness (but perhaps not the same area) at the "rear" of the backpack. Books sandwiched between would very likely enhance protection. I haven't shot up enough text books to make a guess as to how much. Erring on the side of caution, I arbitrarily set the protection from books to zero.
Curving the plates would also likely enhance its protection. Sloping armour at 60 degrees to the projectile's flight path effectively doubles the protection obtained, but I think that's an unusable angle. I don't know how to extrapolate for more realistic angles so, again, I assumed zero protection from curvature/attack angle.
Unless the theoretical active shooter is using only armour-piercing projectiles, I suspect that the protection would be considerable. I think the mass of 2 steel plates would be portable from classroom to vehicle or classroom to home, if the backpacker is afoot. I wouldn't want to carry that extra weight on a 20-mile march, but I don't think that's a realistic distance for most students to walk.
You're as right as you can be. The metric mass should be 1.05 kg. I'll make that correction. Thank you for pointing it out.
I'm not familiar with the AR500 plate, but I accept your numbers. I think the reason I went with RHS/RHA is that it can be cut to whatever dimensions work best for a particular backpack. I have no idea what size options, if any, I might have with the AR500 plate.
I think you're right about the books having ballistic stop potential, but I ignored it for the sake of coming up with a "worst case" estimation. Just spitballing, I envisioned a 1/4" plate at the "front" of the backpack (closest to the wearer) and another plate the same thickness (but perhaps not the same area) at the "rear" of the backpack. Books sandwiched between would very likely enhance protection. I haven't shot up enough text books to make a guess as to how much. Erring on the side of caution, I arbitrarily set the protection from books to zero.
Curving the plates would also likely enhance its protection. Sloping armour at 60 degrees to the projectile's flight path effectively doubles the protection obtained, but I think that's an unusable angle. I don't know how to extrapolate for more realistic angles so, again, I assumed zero protection from curvature/attack angle.
Unless the theoretical active shooter is using only armour-piercing projectiles, I suspect that the protection would be considerable. I think the mass of 2 steel plates would be portable from classroom to vehicle or classroom to home, if the backpacker is afoot. I wouldn't want to carry that extra weight on a 20-mile march, but I don't think that's a realistic distance for most students to walk.
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Right. Get back to us when youre the one under the gun, about to die, and with no means to defend yourself. Your surviving family can log a complaint.
At what point were the rights of those who were killed, observed and respected by the schools, businesses, etc, that restricted the possession of a weapon?
Were those who restricted possession, not in fact, responsible for the safety of those people because of it?
And what jobs these days, and in this corporate atmosphere, allow you to carry a firearm, or any weapon, for that matter? I have yet to see a corporate manual, no matter how small the company, that allows weapons/guns on their property.
2damnold4this
New member
I'm pretty sure 1/4" steel plate is going to weigh more than 10 lbs per square foot. I can't see needing more than one plate in a backpack.
Okay, check my math, because I AM the poster-child for computational error:
30.5 cm x 30.5 cm x .635 cm = 590.71 cc
S4340 RHS has a density of 7.85 g/cc. 7,85 g/cc x 590.71 cc = 4637.07g.
THERE'S the error. 4637.07g = 4.63707 kg. 4.637kg x 2.2046 lb./kg = 10.222 lb.
Well, heck, I can't even do algebra anymore! I blame it on all the advanced math classes I had to take, afterward.
2 plates would be 20 lbs of extra weight. No way anyone's carrying THAT to school. Even if they did, it'd slow down their running speed. Can steel plate be obtained in 1/8" thicknesses?
30.5 cm x 30.5 cm x .635 cm = 590.71 cc
S4340 RHS has a density of 7.85 g/cc. 7,85 g/cc x 590.71 cc = 4637.07g.
THERE'S the error. 4637.07g = 4.63707 kg. 4.637kg x 2.2046 lb./kg = 10.222 lb.
Well, heck, I can't even do algebra anymore! I blame it on all the advanced math classes I had to take, afterward.
2 plates would be 20 lbs of extra weight. No way anyone's carrying THAT to school. Even if they did, it'd slow down their running speed. Can steel plate be obtained in 1/8" thicknesses?
2damnold4this
New member
There is a level IIIA steel plate advertised that weighs 4.8lbs. I think at that price point and level of protection, I would go with a soft IIIA panel. They have less weight and are more flexible.
Edit to add: something like this
Edit to add: something like this
I personally think it's not worth the hassle given the actual risk involved. There are roughly 150K schools (k-college, public and private) and despite the media coverage, school shootings represent a statistically neglible part of the overall crime picture. You are much safer at work than you are out in public.
I think our time and attention is better spent on prevention, training and tactics. Our schools have adopted the ALICE program. It's not perfect and has its critics but it's a heckuva lot better than the tried-and-failed "lockdown" model.
I think our time and attention is better spent on prevention, training and tactics. Our schools have adopted the ALICE program. It's not perfect and has its critics but it's a heckuva lot better than the tried-and-failed "lockdown" model.
Thanks for the suggestions. Yea I am not sure its worth it or not. I do go through the motions of what I would do if this happened. I know what I would do depending on where I am but my options are limited other then locking the doors, lights off, etc. I am definitely not carrying on campus though unless its legal - it would definitely lead to firing and probable media coverage. I have been on campus when they have done bomb searches and other types of things and who knows if those dogs would smell a gun. So until its legal its just not an option for me. I am part of the college faculty population that does want guns on campus. Even my wife, who hates, and I mean hates guns, said she would feel much safer if I could carry on campus. So, I thought maybe these things are one option which could help in a bad situation.
boondocker385
New member
I would suggest training your kids how to react would be more valuable. ....can't be shot if you have beaten a path out of there...
leadcounsel
Moderator
AR500 armor sells inserts and backpacks.
Not a terrible idea or waste of money. It'll weigh an extra 10 pounds, and cost a Benjamin. In a defenseless situation it's better than nothing.
Not a terrible idea or waste of money. It'll weigh an extra 10 pounds, and cost a Benjamin. In a defenseless situation it's better than nothing.
kilimanjaro
New member
If you feel the need for body armor, you need it.
I'd also spend the bucks on a good folding knife and a baton of some sort. Just standing there waiting to be shot in your body armor protected chest doesn't seem like much of a survival plan, to me. Don't misunderstand, I'm all for protecting oneself, but if you're shot once by an active shooter, expect to be shot twice or more. The first round may very well be survivable with armor, but the next two or three won't be. You're probably going to be the farthest from the exit, being the instructor, and the first target as well. Get aggressive and use your armored longevity as long as you are able.
I'd also spend the bucks on a good folding knife and a baton of some sort. Just standing there waiting to be shot in your body armor protected chest doesn't seem like much of a survival plan, to me. Don't misunderstand, I'm all for protecting oneself, but if you're shot once by an active shooter, expect to be shot twice or more. The first round may very well be survivable with armor, but the next two or three won't be. You're probably going to be the farthest from the exit, being the instructor, and the first target as well. Get aggressive and use your armored longevity as long as you are able.