Budget MOA Rifle

Ya know all this minute of angle stuff and bedding stuff is out the window if the human element isn't up to the job! Give a so so shooter a fine rifle with a really great load and the so so shooter will make it a so so rifle. We seem to always set aside the human side of this! I strongly suspect that anyone at least the vast majority of minute of angle rifles are shot from a bench, no problem as that's about the only way you can find out what the rifle does, mixed with the human element. I have watched a good number of people over the years shooting off a bench that appeared to have no idea of technique. Watched a left handler firing a black rifle of some kind from a kneeling position. Blew me away, he was set up to shoot right handed! Left knee up and right knee on the ground. He was with several other people and nobody appeared to say a word to him about position. The human element take's the best of shooting rifle's out of it!
 
OK weird and very opinionated post 1) get a bolt 22lr good rifle and get below 1.5 to 2 moa at 100 yards. 2) get a precision upper for one of your ARs. First choice is because you can get your fundamentals down without breaking the bank. The second is because sob moa all day long is possible at under $1000. For the price of a $400 gun and a $200-300 scope you are approaching the upper price. This assumes you already have a decent scope on one of your ARs. 223 is the second most reasonable priced cartridge to bench with. If you really want to get good at target/ bench shooting, thousands of rounds per year are necessary. The 223 will get you to 5-600 yards. Long range takes higher calibers. Target/bench is not hunting or plinking. It requires good equipment to get good. Budget target/bench rifles are around $1000. My Savage FTR rifles were $1100. They are budget target/bench guns. IMO you can be ecstatic with 1moa out of 22lr or .5 moa out of a good target/bench gun. Only the 22lr option is budget.
 
Ya know all this minute of angle stuff and bedding stuff is out the window if the human element isn't up to the job!
Click to expand...
LOL--that in my opinion is the biggest variable. I shoot 3 to 4 times a week and of all the rifles I have there may be one or two that I believe that I shoot up to it's full potential. I know the moment I've pulled the trigger whether or not I've moved the gun and pulled a shot (almost always do to some degree).
 
Yes the human element. ..which is to say me and well. Am i a terrible shooter?

Hmm. ..

jj9uh2.jpg
[/IMG]

I'm still at the range but this is federal 100 grain soft point ammo, 14.72$ straight from walmart.

I tried some fusion 95 grain and that was even better...probably its favorite ammo alongside the 58g winchester poly varmint ammo.

Here's the fusion...

1z6cbde.jpg


Now I'll get back to smiling at this 275$ rifle which included the scope
 
Last edited:
Nice shooting for the equipment in my opinion. But you will have a unicorn rifle if it is a hunter weight that is a sub moa rifle all day long. I consider a sub moa rifle one that puts 95% of its shots in a less than 1 moa circle. I have both Savage FTR rifles. The 223 is approaching a .5 moa rifle. I am the problem. The 308 is a 1 moa rifle undergoing load development. I have many three shots into a caliber sized hole. I have no 5 shot groups into a caliber sized hole. I have a few one hole 5 shot groups.

You decide what is acceptable to you. You decide the accuracy. You decide the weight. The purpose. Looks to me you have what you need. Just don't catch any bugs. The accuracy bug can be very expensive.
 
Lohman....Looks like you got the Daily Double! :)

I suppose a lot of this hinges on what we call a sub-moa rifle. Is it a rifle that will shoot sub-moa even if you run steel cased wolf through it? I wonder if a benchrest rifle would shoot Tula steel case at sub-moa? Or is it one that will do so with its preferred ammo (be it factory or handloaded) ? I sort of subscribe to the latter much more than the former as accuracy takes in several components...the ammo, the rifle barrel, the chamber, headspace, action, bedding, stock, and of course the shooter themselves. I also say that as the rifle is shooting cheap factory ammo very well rather than shooting 3 MOA with everything other than meticulously prepared handloads.

Basically with the walmart grade, 100 grain federal soft point $15 ammo I got groups between 1 to 1.75". Some 58 grain varmint loads, again factory winchester stuff, shot about 0.9 to 1.25". There was also the winchester 100 grain soft points which were 1.25 to 1.75". Finally the Fusion ammo 95 grain was between .75 to 1.25". I didn't have nor does walmart or any of my LGS sell match ammo like the Nosler stuff.

I would like to say that with handloads it could be improved and if I only shot said handloads that I'd reliabily get 1 MOA almost every time.

As for the rifle itself, the magazine doesn't scream longevity, the action is a little clunky though it might just be from it being a new rifle or my being totally new to bolt guns, and it won't win any beauty contests to say the least. The barrel heated up fairly quickly too which is another big change to me coming from shooting mil-spec auto loaders for a long time.

I didn't use any special break in procedures and before shooting I simply ran the bore snake through it once with copper solvent remove and hoppes #9 oil. Otherwise that was it.

I shot at a pace of about 3 shots every 5 minutes. Admittedly I mounted the scope, which came with the rifle, pretty quickly and didn't really bother to level it beyond eyeballing the alignment. I'm sure at longer ranges this would be evident but for 100 yards from the bench at my range, which is sadly the longest distance they have, it proved to be more than enough.

The recoil was more than any of my AR/AK's but still very mild. My standard point of comparison is having shot 3", 1600 FPS slugs out of a 6 pound 12 gauge from the bench (again, thanks to club rules not my preference!), and by that measure the recoil was like a light breeze :)

I shot off a couple of old bags that the range which helped immensely so don't take this as though I shot MOA groups offhand from my weak side in a 45 mph gale on one leg....all day...

Out of the box. ..
skew.jpg



At the range. ..
2942td3.jpg
 
Last edited:
If you are looking for low cost reloads, 6.5 Creedmoor is not a good choice.

Bullets are expensive, especially if you want to get the benefit of the 6.5 Creedmoor's accuracy.

You would be better off looking for a really good .223.
I have two .223s that shoot very accurately (under 1/2 MOA and the brass and even the good bullets are pretty reasonable.
 
I suppose a lot of this hinges on what we call a sub-moa rifle.
Click to expand...
Even the finest custom rifle will not shoot sub-moa with low quality ammo. But we can still call that rifle (custom or off the rack) a moa/submoa if the shooter has a load that the gun likes.
 
Even the finest custom rifle will not shoot sub-moa with low quality ammo. But we can still call that rifle (custom or off the rack) a moa/submoa if the shooter has a load that the gun likes.
Click to expand...

I think the standard was set when manufacturers started including "test" targets using "premium ammunition" to prove a rifle was sub MOA. I'm thinking specifically of Weatherby but I doubt they were the first or only ones.
 
Ahhh the ongoing rage of opinions as to "MOA" precision. You won't hear me boast I have a "MOA" or "sub MOA" rifle. Why not ? Because too many variables come into play. Ive shot my all time tightest 4 shot group of .24 MOA at 200 meters with 39.9 gr of Benchmark, 168 SMK and a .020" jump. I tried the SAME batch ammo 2 weeks later and my best was 1.09 MOA. Everything was the same but temps were about 15 degrees cooler, and much lower humidity. I don't beat myself up over constantly trying to achieve sub moa. I take my most consistent 1 moa loads and run those. For me it's all about testing loads, documenting and favoring consistiency. Are all my rifles potentially sub moa every day every week ? In theory yes, BUT I am NOT in reality. My most consistiant rifle that can open the door to potential sub moa is my Savage 12 F/TR in .308. This rifle is proving to be a VERY consistent shooter , even when I am NOT.
 
A precision rifle is that, every day- not just some days.

You won't see a world-class rifle shoot one ragged hole one day, and an inch the next. Consistency is the key- and it's not an accident when it happens. It's the result of extensive study of barrel resonance, bullets, seating depth, powders, primers, stock fitment, extremely precise barrels and machining.
 
I read the OP's post as wanting a budget MOA rifle--not an ultra precision space gun that more than likely will be well north of 3K (maybe 5K once you throw in all the precision loading gear, chrono, powders etc)--which is what it sounds to me like what you're talkin about.
 
^^^
My comments were a response to Road Clam directly above mine- not the OP.
Point being- everything obviously was not the same- or the bullets would not have impacted at different locations. If everything IS the same, the bullet impacts at exactly (or nearly so) the same location.

Shooter error, velocity (high SD/ES), neck tension, concentricity, optimal case fill, ignition and powder burn, the list goes on and on. Getting this extremely high level of consistency is what shooters that strive for it see as the ultimate challenge.

The hardware is only part of the equation- the ammunition is critically important, and in my experience the vast majority of shooters-other than serious benchrest and long-range- just don't know this (or refuse to believe it). There's a reason Black Hills and FGMM cost what they do.

Finding the accuracy node where the bullet exits the muzzle precisely as the shock wave/pulse has returned to the breech end of the barrel. This is real science, measured in fractions of a millisecond.

http://www.the-long-family.com/OBT_paper.htm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top