silvercorvette
New member
I don't own slugs the only shells I own are 00 buck but the tri ball seems interesting. I always assumed that the shotgun was for in the house close up and anything outside the house at a distance would require a rifle
buckshot or slug?
- Thread starter Lokpyrite
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jeremiahjw
New member
I stick with 00 shot. Seems like it would be easier to hit an intruder with the buck shot than it would be with a single slug.
silvercorvette
New member
You still need to aim. Go to the range with a few large sheets of paper or a bunch of newspapers taped together to make a few large sheets. Fire off a few shots to check the spread. Start at 2 or 3 yards and stop at the longest length / distance from wall to wall inside your house. The spread depends on barrel length and choke but the spread will not overcome a bad aim. it is a good idea to know the pattern and spread for the gun you use with the ammo you intend to use.
Edward429451
Moderator
You'd think so huh, but this is not the case. At typical in the house distances the shot doesn't have enough room to open up so you better aim like a rifle.
But if you're going to aim like a rifle, why not use slugs so he has no cover.
Of course, only if you don't have extra people or kids about.
hardworker
New member
I don't know what he could take as cover that 000 buck couldn't punch through. Sheet metal perhaps? A couch wouldn't stand a change against buckshot of any sort. A slug is just more money spent for no real benefit in a house. And if he's hiding behind something, he's probably gone on the defensive and is trying to find the quickest exit. I say quit firing and tell him if he runs as fast as possible out the door you won't blow him away.
Armchair horse-hockey!
:barf:
1. Anybody who over-thinks HD scenarios to the point of comparing slugs and buckshot penetrating leather sofa vs. fabric chair vs. drywall vs. refrigerator needs to go outside and take a breath and enjoy the fresh air.
2. 99.9637% of us on this forum will NEVER employ a shotgun in our home in a deadly force situation (Thank-god) The two most important factors IF it ever happens are safe/rapid employment, and arc of fire. Slugs vs. buckshot will be nearly meaningless!
:barf:
1. Anybody who over-thinks HD scenarios to the point of comparing slugs and buckshot penetrating leather sofa vs. fabric chair vs. drywall vs. refrigerator needs to go outside and take a breath and enjoy the fresh air.
2. 99.9637% of us on this forum will NEVER employ a shotgun in our home in a deadly force situation (Thank-god) The two most important factors IF it ever happens are safe/rapid employment, and arc of fire. Slugs vs. buckshot will be nearly meaningless!
Its pointless to use bird shot rounds for defense. They do minimal damage even at close range. I've had two people come in to the ER with close range birdshot wounds that walked away. I load mine with a 00 buckshot, a 2 3/4 double slug, then the rest is 3" magnum slugs. I've also got two more buckshot and three more slugs in the saddle. I've also gone to the range time and time again and practiced with this set up so even when the juice is pumping i know what to expect and what my estimated damage potential will be with this set up. But my shotgun is not my first choice for home defense. My shotgun is set up for four legged invaders though. For the two legged kind my HD gun of choice would be my .357
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Don't forget, not all birdshot is the same. This is a point that I think most people forget as when they think of birdshot they automatically assume you're talking about something pretty fine like #7 upland game loads. While I would agree that that type of shotshell would be underpenetrative, something like a waterfowl load with a very coarse birdshot (BB or larger) is another animal altogether. Birdshot of this size typically penetrates about 10" in ballistic gel which, while not as deep as buckshot, is significantly deeper than upland game loads.
Geese need a hefty shot, copper plated number 2 shot will do the trick Justice4Lady
New member
I agree with keeping slugs on-hand,but not loaded-unless/until you need them,specifically.
You'll find that 00,000 and even #4 will penetrate just about anything in your house if needed. So the BG taking cover anywhere is pretty-much a non-issue.
Like a previous responder, I live on a big lot, and have been attacked before-from off-property (across the road, @ approx 50 ft +) So, to return fire, if needed, some slugs would be much better for me for that.But I would not be the least inclined to try using slugs indoors.
You'll find that 00,000 and even #4 will penetrate just about anything in your house if needed. So the BG taking cover anywhere is pretty-much a non-issue.
Like a previous responder, I live on a big lot, and have been attacked before-from off-property (across the road, @ approx 50 ft +) So, to return fire, if needed, some slugs would be much better for me for that.But I would not be the least inclined to try using slugs indoors.
Bill DeShivs
New member
I have seen birdshot (#8) nearly penetrate a man's chest, and I have seen it blow a man's arm off at close range. I don't think that is "minimal" damage.
You guys should actually shoot some guns before you post irresponsible stuff like this.
You guys should actually shoot some guns before you post irresponsible stuff like this.
Justice4Lady
New member
Well, I cant fault the original poster- he's trying to make a choice on things he's be advised by others before coming here. And this is a very common myth-being circulated 100-fold, thanks to the internet. Hell,there are Law Enforcement officers giving folks this advice out there, who themselves have not tested or tried or otherwise experienced this.
It's an assumption made by a lot of otherwise knowledgeable people, and it needs to be rebuked anywhere/everywhere it is encountered.
Advising on loads -any load for any gun-needs to be done very very carefully. We're not talking about which car is going to get the most MPG, or which pair of boots is going to last 5 yrs. We're talking about serious devices that WILL result in the death of others-and as often as not-others we care about vs. the "bad guys".
At the opposite end of this issue, there;s even folks still suggesting 9mm(regardless of make/type/load) for combat use-despite decades of well-documented experiences of that round utterly failing in 9 out 10 cases of it's use.
It's an assumption made by a lot of otherwise knowledgeable people, and it needs to be rebuked anywhere/everywhere it is encountered.
Advising on loads -any load for any gun-needs to be done very very carefully. We're not talking about which car is going to get the most MPG, or which pair of boots is going to last 5 yrs. We're talking about serious devices that WILL result in the death of others-and as often as not-others we care about vs. the "bad guys".
At the opposite end of this issue, there;s even folks still suggesting 9mm(regardless of make/type/load) for combat use-despite decades of well-documented experiences of that round utterly failing in 9 out 10 cases of it's use.
No. 1 > 00
Capstick said that birdshot is not viable for defense. . . with that he also said he once killed a lioness that snuck up on him bird hunting with #7 birdshot. When i said birdshot is pointless i meant in the #9 to #7 range. After reading this from capstick my preference for HD is #1 shot. Its the best of both worlds and, from my experience, seems to do a lot more damage to the targets than 00 or 000
"The load of 00 buck is considerably inferior to the same maximum powder loading of smaller No. 1 buckshot in the same shell. The difference lies in the simple and astonishingly obvious fact that at .33 caliber, 00 buck is so large in the shell that there is much wasted space that could otherside be filled with lead if the bearing surfaces of the big, round pellets didn't have to come into contact with each other. Bit they must. No. 1 buck is .30 caliber, only ten percent less in diameter than 00 buck but thirteen grains per pellet lighter. However, because of the way the pellet mass fits into the shotshell, the same shell can fire an incredible seventy-five percent more pellets than the Magnum 00 load. What this means is that you're launching eight hundred grains of lead at better than three thousand foot-pounds at the muzzle with No. 1 buck compared with six hundred grains and no even twenty-four hundred ft-lbs with the 00 buck. Remember 800 grains equals a .458 and a .375 at point blank." - Capstick from 'Death in the Dark Continent'
With all that said i would use nothing less than a 3" magnum slug on a bear.
Capstick said that birdshot is not viable for defense. . . with that he also said he once killed a lioness that snuck up on him bird hunting with #7 birdshot. When i said birdshot is pointless i meant in the #9 to #7 range. After reading this from capstick my preference for HD is #1 shot. Its the best of both worlds and, from my experience, seems to do a lot more damage to the targets than 00 or 000
"The load of 00 buck is considerably inferior to the same maximum powder loading of smaller No. 1 buckshot in the same shell. The difference lies in the simple and astonishingly obvious fact that at .33 caliber, 00 buck is so large in the shell that there is much wasted space that could otherside be filled with lead if the bearing surfaces of the big, round pellets didn't have to come into contact with each other. Bit they must. No. 1 buck is .30 caliber, only ten percent less in diameter than 00 buck but thirteen grains per pellet lighter. However, because of the way the pellet mass fits into the shotshell, the same shell can fire an incredible seventy-five percent more pellets than the Magnum 00 load. What this means is that you're launching eight hundred grains of lead at better than three thousand foot-pounds at the muzzle with No. 1 buck compared with six hundred grains and no even twenty-four hundred ft-lbs with the 00 buck. Remember 800 grains equals a .458 and a .375 at point blank." - Capstick from 'Death in the Dark Continent'
With all that said i would use nothing less than a 3" magnum slug on a bear.
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Rampant_Colt
New member
On the contrary, you and the other birdshot advocates are the ones posting 'irresponsible stuff' by suggesting that an inadequate birdshot load is acceptable for self-defense scenarios, which it is not. Suggesting the use of an inadequate load like birdshot for SD is dangerous and irresponsible when adequate slug and buckshot loads are readily available. If you use it, fine, just don't insist or suggest others make the same mistake as you.Bill DeShivs said:
Worried about over-penetration? Use Number 4 buckshot..!
Funny how this thread started off being about buckshot & slugs and devolved into another lame birdshot -vs- buckshot argument. Please lock this thread before any more birdshot advocates add their useless, off-topic input
Justice4Lady
New member
mm. not trying to argue-but,
#4? Please do us a favor, and dont take anyone's word for it.
Grab a shell or two of #4- fire it into some common, household materials. Wood, sheetrock, and old door, something. And come back and post the results.
Guarantee you it will cleanly penetrate almost anything 00 does from the same distance up to about 25 meters. It is very capable of over-penetrating.
These internet myths of #4 and the like being ineffective are silly. To a certain range. Past 25m? wouldnt count on it. But in MOST situations for home shotgun use-it's quiet a nasty blast.
#4? Please do us a favor, and dont take anyone's word for it.
Grab a shell or two of #4- fire it into some common, household materials. Wood, sheetrock, and old door, something. And come back and post the results.
Guarantee you it will cleanly penetrate almost anything 00 does from the same distance up to about 25 meters. It is very capable of over-penetrating.
These internet myths of #4 and the like being ineffective are silly. To a certain range. Past 25m? wouldnt count on it. But in MOST situations for home shotgun use-it's quiet a nasty blast.
Rampant_Colt
New member
What people are failing to address is the fact that self-defense shootings are never in an ideal scenario, we need to prepare for the worst case scenarios. With buckshot in the magazine and slugs on the side saddle or butt holder, you have most SD/HD scenarios covered
The first JHP defensive load for the 9mm was the W-W 115gr Silvertip that came out around 1979. Before that it was all FMJ. To say that the 9mm is ineffective is complete nonsense
Justice4Lady said:
The first JHP defensive load for the 9mm was the W-W 115gr Silvertip that came out around 1979. Before that it was all FMJ. To say that the 9mm is ineffective is complete nonsense
lefteyedom
New member
Raise your arm and save your watch
My HD shotgun has a full choke tube screwed in the end of it 20" barrel and it is load with 4 shot. Within my home this load is going to fly like a roll of nickles. Where the red dot is where the impact is going to be.
I want the threat to go away. I would prefer not to go threw a legal trail, so hopefully the sound of the action and the red light will persuade the uninvited guest to leave.
But as much as I love a 12 gauge it is not the first weapon I would bring to a known fire fight.
My HD shotgun has a full choke tube screwed in the end of it 20" barrel and it is load with 4 shot. Within my home this load is going to fly like a roll of nickles. Where the red dot is where the impact is going to be.
I want the threat to go away. I would prefer not to go threw a legal trail, so hopefully the sound of the action and the red light will persuade the uninvited guest to leave.
But as much as I love a 12 gauge it is not the first weapon I would bring to a known fire fight.
Justice4Lady
New member
"The first JHP defensive load for the 9mm was the W-W 115gr Silvertip that came out around 1979. Before that it was all FMJ. To say that the 9mm is ineffective is complete nonsense "
Like I stated elswhere, go visit the nearest trauma center-ask for access, tell them you are researching GSV;s or something. Then see the real-world street results for yourself, and let me know if you still think its "nonsense".
There's a reason every major PD in this country ran as fast as they could from the 9mm-in a variety of modern,premium loads. Not that they went much better, in switching to .40, as that has proven to be almost as worthless as the 9, but..or to put it another way-ask any currently serving LEO who has actually had to fire his weapon other than on qualification- if he would rather be packing a 9mm, .40 or .45 or something else.
Like I stated elswhere, go visit the nearest trauma center-ask for access, tell them you are researching GSV;s or something. Then see the real-world street results for yourself, and let me know if you still think its "nonsense".
There's a reason every major PD in this country ran as fast as they could from the 9mm-in a variety of modern,premium loads. Not that they went much better, in switching to .40, as that has proven to be almost as worthless as the 9, but..or to put it another way-ask any currently serving LEO who has actually had to fire his weapon other than on qualification- if he would rather be packing a 9mm, .40 or .45 or something else.