buckshot for deer, ethics.

Seems to me that it's all about choke, shot pattern, range and skill.

And judgement.
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That's it in a nut shell.

We killed a lot of deer with buckshot when I was a younger man and when virtually everyone in our region of Alabama were running deer with dogs. Buckshot's reputation for wounding deer can be divided into 3 categories in my opinion. None really the fault of the buckshot.

1. People not patterning their shotguns to see what kind of patterns they are getting with a particular choke and shell. Lot of people back in the day were flying blind so to speak with no real clue what kind of patterns they were flinging.

2. The fact that we were shooting at running deer with a pack of hounds hot on their butt. Not taking a swipe at dog hunting here but it's just common sense that shooting at moving animals is going to result in more bad hits than shooting at stationary ones.

3. People not respecting the limited range of buckshot. It's hard to believe that something which can be so lethal at 30 yards can become pretty ineffective by the time it reaches 50 yards. I always kept my shots 40 yards and under. Also few people had the will power to let a really good buck pass by just out of buckshot's effective range without lobbing a few spray and pray shots.

I don't use buckshot anymore. We no longer run deer with dogs and if I'm going to limit myself to 40 yards and in I will typically have a bow in my hands these days. But if I needed or had to use it, I would pattern my gun; respect it's range; and kill deer just fine with it.
 
Buckshot per-se, is not the problem. Hunters trying to extend it past its practical limits is the problem.
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I agree with that. In general, it seems that passing up a shot is not possible for many of them. Although I have only taken one deer with bow and arrow, I believe that most gun hunters would be better/more successful deer hunters, if they had to do several seasons of bow hunting before they could gun hunt. Perhaps some sense of patience and marksmanship would be instilled.
 
Thanks for the info Dahermit. I hope it never comes down to it but if I do hunt again I will try the No.4. I guess right now besides if my family were going hungry the only reason I would hunt again would be if my daughter ever wants me to teach her. I almost burned myself out on it, and the last time I went with a couple buddies one of them had a ND when placing his rifle in the back of the vehicle. It went into the seat adjuster on the drivers side and came out the rocker panel. I was in the seat at the time. I removed a small piece of lead that barely stuck in my left kidney area. I swore never again, or at least with others, even friends.

Seems the fellow decided to lighten his trigger on his Winchester 30-06, well it was a bubba job or he pulled the trigger by accident from what happened. I chewed him for having a loaded rifle in my vehicle and us on the way to the field, etc... But ultimately cut ties with him after seeing his other safety violations and ethics. He was actually a friend of a friend....so no harm no foul, just don't want to hunt near him...
 
Every deer I've ever shot with buckshot died a whole lot faster and dropped a whole lot faster than with any other methods.

I think it's entirely ethical. And folks who post these anti-hunting threads tend to be the usual internet idiot who can't see the world beyond their own nose let alone state.
 
dahermit said:
I agree with that. In general, it seems that passing up a shot is not possible for many of them. Although I have only taken one deer with bow and arrow, I believe that most gun hunters would be better/more successful deer hunters, if they had to do several seasons of bow hunting before they could gun hunt. Perhaps some sense of patience and marksmanship would be instilled.
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I became an excellent hunter when I started now hunting. The number if animals I see far exceeds what non bow hunters see because it forces me to be aware of everything that matters, movement, scent and noise.
 
Originally posted by Countertop:

And folks who post these anti-hunting threads tend to be the usual internet idiot who can't see the world beyond their own nose let alone state.
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"These anti-hunting threads"? Really...... have you read this thread? Maybe you can show me anywhere in this thread, any statement claiming hunting is bad or unethical. Show me anywhere in this thread where anyone has said hunting with buckshot is unethical. All I have seen is a reference by the OP about folks in some other thread somewhere claiming buckshot is unethical. Folks in this thread, have for the most part kept it to a civil conversation about their experiences with buckshot and why or why not they choose to use it. The OP, an avid buckshot user admits to it's limitations and most folks list those same limitations as the reason they don't choose to use it. So who then, if I may ask, are these "internet idiots who can't see the world beyond their own nose let alone state" you speak of? Folks that don't hunt the exact way you choose to? Is that what makes them "idiots"? Sorry, but when someone feels the need to call folks names just cause they do not agree with them, has already lost the argument and does not display any superior level of intelligence or credibility. I have bow hunted since the mid-sixties and took my first buck with a recurve bow when I was 14. I still can't claim to see more animals than EVERY non-archery hunter in the woods. Many of those deer hunters a generation ahead of me, never picked up a bow and have more knowledge and have seen more game that I could ever hope to. But then I ain't you.
 
birds a very frail creatures. they have very light bone and muscular structures to allow for flight, even birds like turkeys with limited flight capability. all it really takes is one or two pellets to hit a bird to kill it and if the pellet doesn't the hard fall will.
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You don't have a lot of experience hunting turkeys, do you?

Unless you hit them in the head or neck with those one or two pellets, forget about it. I've seen turkeys rolled multiple times, knocked out of the air and get up and still keep going- those feathers shed birdshot like rain...... fall turkey is more like "Magnum pheasant" than ambushing lovesick toms in the spring .... I rolled a tom one time with a single #2 pellet to the back of the head- he keeled over and his feet stuck up toward the sky and twitched .... I dropped the shotgun, ran out and hoisted the bird up in triumph ..... at which point the bird came out of his daze and came to life and commenced to beatin' on me, slashing me with his free spur ....
 
Only one deer with a bow? Just like the previous poster, all I ever used were recurve and long bows. I do remember way back when someone was selling a device to shoot two arrows simultaneously from a bow. There may well be potential there for "Traditional" buckshot if you can add more arrows.
 
We dog hunt with 00buck and have killed numerous 8-11 point big boys. I have also taken quite a few from our shotgun stands which are about 40 yards max. It kills just fine if you do your part within short yardage.
 
I was forced to use 12ga 00 buck for some of my deer hunting. The first 3 deer I killed with 00 buck and a Winchester 1400. I would not use it past 20-25 yards on the outside. It is not the best tool for the job but will work just fine. I actually found it better to aim at the base of the skull/upper neck area with 00 buck. These were smaller southern deer. Seemed as ethical as any other kind of hunting. This is just my experience in the Southern Virginia swamps. YMMV.
 
I think a hunter hunting with buckshot within 50-60 yards and closer is more ethical than a hunter using a 7 Mag who tries to hit a running deer or a deer at 400 yards. That 400 yards is just most people. Some do practice at 400 yards and are dead on but most try and can't shoot worth a darn at 100 yards. :eek:
 
Part of the problem is also a misunderstanding of how wounded deer "slowly" die over the course of several weeks from something like an infection.
Just like the birds, if the deer is hurt something in nature will get a hold of it long before it dies from an infection.
Has anyone here ever come across a mortally wounded deer rotting in the deep woods? I sure haven't. I have run across a few carcasses that hunters almost certainly wounded, but coyotes obviously finished the animal off.

For a good while my area of the country had no wolves, large cats, coyotes, bears, etc. Maybe it happened then, but I don't think it does now.

Will it take days to get weakened to the point something can take it? Maybe. Will being killed by coyotes be a pleasant death? I imagine not. Is it less natural than falling within 60 yards from a double lung and heart shot? Probably not.
 
As long as the hunter understands the limitations of the weapon and load and behaves appropriately, I don't think there's a problem with buckshot.

I have killed two deer with 12ga. 3" 00 Buck. I was carrying my do-all 11-87 on the way to do some maintenance on my deer stand in the middle of the day. I knew there was a chance of seeing deer at close range and that's exactly what happened. I came over the top of a rise and there they were. I shot the first one at 15 yds and it was DRT. The second one ran and stopped at about 30 yds. I shot it too and it went down but looked like it might get up. One more shot and it was finished. Killing two deer per day is legal in SC, my freezer was full and I was done hunting for the year.

I've also finished a deer that was wounded and lost by another hunter with a rifle. One front leg was broken and the other was shot through the meat. Bad shots and wounded deer are possible regardless of the weapon.
 
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