Here in the Southern-half of Michigan's Lower Peninsula, it is a shotgun-only area. You may use either buckshot or slugs. This area is known for its large (grain-fed),bucks, not the German Shepherd sized deer of which you speak. I can personally attest that buckshot works on large deer also. I suspect that Ohio's anti-buckshot law may be typical of the laws involved with hunting/firearms, based on erroneous personal perception, not logic and fact. For instance in the Southern, shot-gun only zone, is frequently defended as for the safety of the people living in the built-up areas where a "stray bullet" may travel long distances during deer season, does not address the logic of allowing varmint hunters to use rifles in the pursuit of their sport in the very same shotgun-only zone.
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buckshot for deer, ethics.
- Thread starter dahermit
- Start date
I agree...just like using a rifle, wait for a broadside, behind the should shot at a close enough distance to be sure of a clean kill...buckshot does not/will not make up for stupid.I don't think there's anything wrong with it, just gotta be smart about it.
For instance in the Southern, shot-gun only zone, is frequently defended as for the safety of the people living in the built-up areas where a "stray bullet" may travel long distances during deer season, does not address the logic of allowing varmint hunters to use rifles in the pursuit of their sport in the very same shotgun-only zone.
I don't know how long your deer seaon is but I would venture to guess that the number of varmint hunters in the field at any given time never comes close to the number of deer hunters out there at once, and that is the logic.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
New member
I used buckshot when I was young and hunting(12-13). I took my first buck with it. I decided that it really did a lot more damage to the meat than I wanted. If someone is comfortable with it, great. Before I quit hunting I used a .270. Not only was I not as limited to shorter distance shots, it honestly helped me more(under pressure of adrenaline) become a much better shot. It has been more than 18 years since I stepped into the woods, but I say to each their own. I know a disabled vet that is wheelchair bound, he uses a shotgun with buckshot every season. He has permanent nerve damage and it is harder for him to make accurate shots without a rest. I say it is still useful. I know guys that will only hunt with bows, or long barrel pistols. I still think there is a place for it. 00 buck is now used in my HD shotgun.
Your post implies that you are suggesting that varmint hunters shooting rifles are not as much of a concern as rifle hunters because statistically it is less likely for a stray varmint hunter's bullet to kill someone as it is for a stray deer hunter's bullet to kill someone.I don't know how long your deer seaon is but I would venture to guess that the number of varmint hunters in the field at any given time never comes close to the number of deer hunters out there at once, and that is the logic.
If you wish to use numbers to imply logic in that situation, also consider that almost all the Michigan deer hunting season shooting deaths have not come from "stray" bullets, but "mistaking" a person for a deer.
In short, because the numbers indicating that a "stray bullet" is a very rare cause of death, the wisdom of the law restricting Southern Lower Peninsula seems to be based on perception vs. reality. The reality is, during deer season in rifle areas, if you are killed, it will be in a car accident not by a stray bullet. But you will find that no one seems to make much over that, but will lobby their legislators to make hunting season safer by getting rid of those dangerous "stray bullet" things.
I have found that due to the relatively low velocity of buckshot, skeletal meat damage is all but non-existent. I have eaten a shoulder blade roast and have discovered a clean buckshot hole though the shoulder blade what had not given any indication of being there before it was prepared. I have observed a noticeable lack of all secondary projectiles (bone fragments) and blood-shot bruised meat that is typically found in deer killed by rifle bullets. In short, I have never thrown away any meat from a buckshot kill. I cannot say the same for the rifle kills I have made, and seen.I used buckshot when I was young and hunting(12-13). I took my first buck with it. I decided that it really did a lot more damage to the meat than I wanted.
buck460XVR
New member
Originally posted by dahermit:
In short, I have never thrown away any meat from a buckshot kill.
Over 48 years of bow hunting I have eaten too many deer to remember that I killed with an arrow. An arrow does not produce shock trauma and velocities are much slower than buckshot. Still, in every instance there was meat in the area of the wound due to blood saturation that I did not wish to eat and the hole made definitely gave a indication of being there. In short, I have never eaten any deer, shot even with a arrow, "hole" and all. Unless the deer was already dead, it would be hard for me to imagine a wound made by any projectile, whether it contributed to the death of a deer or not, that didn't have some meat damage due to blood and trauma.
No one in this thread has said the use of buckshot is unethical, nor do they recommend folks not use it. You asked for opinions and folks gave them. When their opinions are not what you want to hear you criticize them for being poor shots. In several posts you claim that one needs to wait for a BEHIND THE SHOULDER SHOT and then brag about eating a shoulder roast with buckshot holes in it. Again, no one is criticizing you for using buckshot if you wish, why are you so critical of those that do not wish to use it?
Gunplummer
New member
How many people are into buckshot enough buy a special shotgun and then test different ammo until they have the perfect setup? Apparently only certain people are capable of using buckshot correctly. When I tell someone I got a spread of shot across the whole front half of a deer, where do you think I was aiming? You want to use it, fine, but don't try and tell me it is not underpowered for deer. I walk around in shotgun areas and have never seen an empty buckshot shell larger than 2 3/4. I used to do logging and land clearing in shotgun areas after deer season and the loss rate of slug shot deer is really bad. I can't even imagine what it would be like if buckshot became popular.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Seems to me that it's all about choke, shot pattern, range and skill.
And judgement.
And judgement.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
New member
Art pretty much summed it up. I did a lot of damage to the one and only buck I shot but I was using 00Buck XX magnum. I was expecting a 30-40 yard shot but had the buck walk within 15 yards of me. It tore the shoulder up pretty bad, but still left a lot of meat for the table. I decided to try honing my rifle skills. (12-13 years old at the time).
Not in this thread, but it is a common theme on this forum when buckshot for deer is discussed to the point where some have said that buckshot should be illeagle for hunting deer (excessive wounding, etc.). That is the purpose of the OP.No one in this thread has said the use of buckshot is unethical, nor do they recommend folks not use it.
Read what they have posted...they describe a very poor choice of conditions/where they shot the deer. I still wait for a person who shot a deer at reasonable range, behind the shoulder, to tell about the negative results (deer ran-off, to die from being gut shot, etc.).You asked for opinions and folks gave them. When their opinions are not what you want to hear you criticize them for being poor shots.
"brag"?? It would seem that you are implying an undue emotional term to what should be a logical discussion. I told about an observation. Is it surprising that inasmuch as I did not press the muzzle against the deer's rib cage, that I would find a piece of buckshot in the shoulder? It does after all, begin to spread as soon as it leaves the muzzle...some will hit the heart/lungs, some in front of that, some behind...just like a pheasant or a duck.In several posts you claim that one needs to wait for a BEHIND THE SHOULDER SHOT and then brag about eating a shoulder roast with buckshot holes in it.
And again, there are those who have frequently criticized the use of buckshot. I am critical of assumption, blaming the use of buckshot for their own poor choices and techniques, knee-jerk sans sufficient experience and evidence, opinions not backed by logic (just gut feelings). I am in favor of using what ever makes a person happy and I have used buckshot, rifle, and handgun to take deer. What prompted this post is the frequent nearly hysterical response to people using buckshot based on erroneous assumptions.Again, no one is criticizing you for using buckshot if you wish, why are you so critical of those that do not wish to use it?
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How many rifle hunters buy a rifle, scope, cartridges, and sight it it? How is that different from taking any shot gun to the range and looking at the patterns at various distances? "Perfect", is somewhat overdone.How many people are into buckshot enough buy a special shotgun and then test different ammo until they have the perfect setup?
"...15 yards of me. It tore the shoulder up pretty bad..." Would the out-come (less damage to the shoulder), been any different if you had just shot it behind the shoulder? What would have happened to that shoulder if you had shot it with a 30-06 and an 180 grain bullet?Art pretty much summed it up. I did a lot of damage to the one and only buck I shot but I was using 00Buck XX magnum. I was expecting a 30-40 yard shot but had the buck walk within 15 yards of me. It tore the shoulder up pretty bad, but still left a lot of meat for the table. I decided to try honing my rifle skills. (12-13 years old at the time).
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do you equate that little 3-5 pellet buckshot load made for self defense with a .410 shotgun as a deer cartridge? because if you say that buckshot is good, ethical, moral to use for deer hunting, then that guy who gets a box of pdx shotgun shells and takes a 70 yard shot on a deer like the gun counter guy says, your advocating something less then smart.
each pellet is never going to do what you want, they haveno real mass so they do what the old lrn widow maker 38 special load did, follow the pass of least resistance in the target.
not good when you want to eat what you hit. not smell it 3 weeks later because you had no way to find it.
each pellet is never going to do what you want, they haveno real mass so they do what the old lrn widow maker 38 special load did, follow the pass of least resistance in the target.
not good when you want to eat what you hit. not smell it 3 weeks later because you had no way to find it.
This deer and buckshot thread was meant only to relate to 12 gauge loads.do you equate that little 3-5 pellet buckshot load made for self defense with a .410 shotgun as a deer cartridge? because if you say that buckshot is good, ethical, moral to use for deer hunting, then that guy who gets a box of pdx shotgun shells and takes a 70 yard shot on a deer like the gun counter guy says, your advocating something less then smart.
each pellet is never going to do what you want, they haveno real mass so they do what the old lrn widow maker 38 special load did, follow the pass of least resistance in the target.
not good when you want to eat what you hit. not smell it 3 weeks later because you had no way to find it.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
New member
Dahermit, you are exactly right. I just had a larger entrance wound cavity. The buckshot did it's job. The buck dropped in it's tracks actually tumbled a bit. But suffered none if I were guessing. Don't get me wrong I have no problem with people using buckshot, and I would use it again if I were hunting in the area I used to hunt and needed to put food on the table. There were a lot of briar thickets in the area. I did do about the same damage with a lever action 35 Remington (Marlin lever action), on a doe at 25 yards using a 200 gr.. It was my brush gun after the shotgun and was devastating when it hit.
reynolds357
New member
I dont have an opinion on how ethical buckshot is. Its historical performance on deer makes it very low on my choice of preferred things to shoot deer with.
My heart would have soared like a hawk and my feet would have danced for joy if only, only, only, you had included some of that, "...Its historical performance on deer...", (I assume negative), data. I was hoping for something more scholarly. I would even be interested in hearing your first hand experiences/results using buckshot.I dont have an opinion on how ethical buckshot is. Its historical performance on deer makes it very low on my choice of preferred things to shoot deer with.
I was told about using buckshot (# 4 buckshot) , from some admitted poachers I worked for that grew up in the Upper Peninsula. They explained to me that it was the most effective deer-taker they had found. When I mentioned double-ought, they pointed out how few pellets were in a double-ought and "...just like a duck or pheasant...", you had to put enough shot into them to do the job and double-ought is short on pellet count compared to #4 Buck (27 in a 2-3/4 shell...before the 3" with 41 pellets each). I followed their suggestion and found that a charge of #4 buckshot was a very effective means of taking deer. After shooting several, I came to the conclusion, that if one was strictly after meat (not antler/sport hunting), it was a better method than trying to put a single shot into a deer under less than ideal field conditions. After taking several with buckshot, all very good kills, inasmuch as I considered myself a gun enthusiast first, and a hunter second, I opted to switch back to using a rifle just for the sport of it. Nevertheless, I of the last three deer I have taken I used my buckshot on two of them inasmuch as I was hunting for meat. The third, I shot with a .41 Magnum using my cast bullets, because I wanted to take a deer double-action. In short, if I was subsistence/meat hunting/had to feed myself, I would use a 12 gauge, 3 inch magnum with .41 pellets (.24 caliber). I understand that there are sophistocated modern buckshot loads that pattern well at longer distances now, but I have not tried them.Don't get me wrong I have no problem with people using buckshot, and I would use it again if I were hunting in the area I used to hunt and needed to put food on the table.
reynolds357
New member
Dahermit, I have never shot a deer with buckshot. I have looked for plenty of them that others shot, with my tracking dogs. Found very small percentage of them. Buckshot per-se, is not the problem. Hunters trying to extend it past its practical limits is the problem.