Buckshot for Bear Defense

Q

QuadOughtBuck

Moderator
Which of these three loads would you use for Brown Bear Defense and Why?

Estate SWAT 2 ¾” 9 Pellet 00 Patterns
29 yrds: 6”x 7.5”
29 yrds: 10”x 10”
29 yrds: 6”x 6.5”
29 yrds: 12”x 10” (7”x6” minus flyer)
29 yrds: 6”x 3.5” ***(7 pellets in a 2”x2” area WOW!)***
42 yrds: 7 pellets on paper in a 10”x17.5” area (two flyers off paper)
42 yrds: 16.5”x 24” (9.5”x 12” minus 2 flyers)
42 yrds: 13”x 14”
Average 29 yrd ( - flyer): 7”x 6.7” ****Tightest Patterning Load of the Bunch!!!
Average 42 yrd: 14.75”x 19”

Velocities
1,166 fps
1,124 fps
1,140 fps
1,136 fps
1,152 fps
Average: 1,144 fps
486 grains @ 1,144 fps –1,413 ft/lbs (157 per pellet)


Nitro 3 ½” 12 Pellet 0000 (.38 caliber pellets)
29 yrds: 18”x 12”
29 yrds: 6”x 27” (6”x 14” minus flyer)
29 yrds: 16”x 7” (16”x 26” minus 2 flyers)
42 yrds: 7 pellets on paper in a 17”x 26” area
Average 29 yrd ( - flyer): 13.3”x 15.3”

Velocities
1,137 fps
1,141 fps
1,135 fps
1,142 fps
Average: 1,140 fps
960 grains @ 1,140 fps –2,770 ft/lbs (231 per pellet)



Winchester XX 2 ¾” 12 Pellet 00
15 yrds: 6”x 7”
15 yrds: 6”x 8” (6”x2”minus flyer)
29 yrds: 16”x 10” *(5 pellets center of aim in a 4”x2.5” area!)
29 yrds: 14”x 14”
29 yrds: 15”x 10” *(6 pellets (50%) center of aim in a 4”x4.5” area!)
29 yrds: 15”x 11”
29 yrds: 11”x 10” (6.5”x 9” minus flyer)
29 yrds: 12”x 16” (8 pellets in a 6”x 6” area)
42 yrds: 16”x 22”
42 yrds: 21”x 19”
42 yrds: 20”x 19”
42 yrds: 20”x 18”
60 yrds: (4 pellets on paper, further 60 yrd shots discontinued)
Average 15 yrd (- flyer): 6”x 7.5”
Average 29 yrd (- flyer): 13”x 11.5”
Average 42 yrd: 19.25”x 19.5”

Velocities
1,207 fps
1,221 fps
1,231 fps
1,219 fps
1,226 fps
Average: 1,221 fps
648 grains @ 1,221 fps –2,145 ft/lbs (179 per pellet)
 
How about none of the above? I would think that if I were dealing with browns, I would want the hardest slug I could find with the most energy I could pack into it. With a brown, you need penetration into the vitals/CNS more than saturation effect, unless you want to shoot into their face at pointblank range. I just don't see buck being able to do sufficient damage to their infrastructure at moderate ranges to stop an attack.
 
My best friend was charged by a Black Bear while opening the back door of his cabin.


He opened the back door of his cabin at 8am with his dog standing next to him. His dog smelled something and started barking. The next thing you know, a 6ft black bear came tearing around the corner and went straight for him and the dog. The dog intercepted the bear about 10ft in front of him. For almost 30min the dog and the bear fought each other in the woods about 25yds from him. My friend had an 870 with buckshot but was afraid to take a shot at the bear because he was afraid of hitting the dog. Amazingly the dog wore the bear down and the bear took off. The golden retriever ran circles around the bear and kept biting him the butt. :D

What do you do if you have to use that gun in defense of another person? What would you do if the bear was chewing on someone and you wanted to shoot it in the head?
 
Well, if you had someone biting you in the rear, for half an hour, and you never could catch the bugger, wouldn't you go home?
 
Wasn't it Keith Rogan who said that 00 buck was the preferred load? I disremember ....

At self defense ranges, and you're not likely to even see one about to getcha much past 10 yards or so, if that, the buckshot will be a solid mass? as such the common wisdom goes .....

Beats me. I never hunted the bigguns & really have no desire, but as with the really big piggies, I'd want something big & solid all the better to break 'em down - screw killin' 'em - I just don't want 'em gettin' anywhere close. Killing's for later.

I'm a wuss that way. ;)
 
I agree none of the above. If you've got a 12 ga. go with with a slug. Even if you're close in and the pellets stay together you'll still get deflection off bones. I want to break bones and put the bear down.

Turk
 
I have 2 things to say...

1) It is called buck shot not bear shot for a good reason. Go with the hardest hitting deepest penetrating slug you can find.

2) Maybe it wasn't a sissy bear. Maybe it was just one helluva dog. Never underestimate the value of a good dog.
 
I feel fortunate that I have never had to deal with a Very Large Something with Lots Of Teeth. However, it occurs to me that if I had reasonable expectation to do so, I would practice shooting from the hip--or other awkward postition--and in doing so quite rapidly. And accurately, of course.

Shotgun with slugs, .45-70 Guide Gun sort of critter, semi-auto in '06 or better...Something you can put into action very, very quickly and having lots of "Thump!".

What you don't have, from what I have read, is a lot of time to think about what to do. Sorta like dealing with a very hostile Street Ape, only worse.

Art
 
"M1 with soft points...ummm, I dont think so. I wouldnt mind having one but I wont carry it for bears."

So you guys don't think buckshot or a .30-06 is enough for stopping bears....hmmmmmm. Remember way back in the day when man killed about ever beast with a muzzle loader, or not even going that far back when the .30-.30 was the prefered round on even big bears? I think that as modern Americans we have been so caught up in the magnum hysteria that we think we NEED ultra insane powerful cartridges to put down things we had little trouble putting down in the past. With that being said, the 12 gauge and .30-06 is NOT a weak round, they are extremly powerful and both will easily take a bear.

Also, I don't understand how I can ask for a choice, and be offered a different answer? If I ask which icecream shop I should go to, and someone says "no, you don't want that, comrade, you want pizza!!" I don't want pizza, I made it plain that I want icecream!!
 
If you want to run down that scenario, carry a .22. That's what professional bear hunters used to do. Please ignore the fact that they used dogs to tree the bear or terrain to their advantage and then shot them below the chin, straight into the brain. As for needing "ultra insane" rounds when we were dealing with them easily enough, get real please. Man killed bear with spears too. So, why not pack that instead? Ignore the fact that the bear population was reduced through attrition (i.e. more of us than them so we could afford casualties).

As for getting a different answer, none of the above is always implied when you ask for a choice.
 
Quad, seems to me there's a significant difference between hunting for bears and taking a careful shot at some distance, and being in a self-defense situation. This latter is up close and personal, and time to a "Stop!" is of the essence.

Now, if all you have is buckshot, then about all I would advise is to deliver as much as you can as quick as you can and as centered as possible...

Art
 
Methinks that buckshot for self-defense against bears would be downright effective. Shotguns dump a lot of energy into a target, and at self-defense ranges it would act very similar to a 70 cal rifle.

That dog story reminded me of a golden retriever that I once had. He got into a very similar fight with a horse. Scary, but funny. But it sure wasn't a bear :eek:


Stinger
 
I work for the Alaska Dept of F&G. Our policy on using shotguns for bear protection is premium slugs only. Buckshot doesn't have the necessary penetration to anchor or kill a charging bear, nor do cheap pumpkin ball slugs for that matter. I personally use a 45-70 with hard cast bullets for coastal brownies.
 
I have 3 guns in my dangerous animal defense inventory:

1) Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Magnum 4 5/8"

2) Remington 870 Marine Magnum 12 gauge

3) Marlin 1895 Stainless Guide Gun (Unported) .45-70

Pistol and Rifle loaded with heavy hardcast with lots of gusto

Shotgun loaded with premium slugs

Would love to supplement the SBH .44 with a .454 Casull or .475 Linebaugh...
 
What do you guys mean by "premium slugs"? Can I have some types and brand names listed here? How would you consider the 3" brenneke magnum? One of the gunstop commandos said "Oh...you can't use that on a bear, you need this" and pointed to the copper solid slugs. Gun shop commandos....sigh, I once had one tell me that the FAL was much more accurate than the M14, and more reliable too. :rolleyes:


In my opinion the 3" brenneke is the most powerful slug there is. Followed by the Winchester partion gold, which of course no one can afford, so brennekes it is. :D
 
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