Buck shot myths and facts collection

Not "Tactics and Training" enough for that forum, too much a general discussion of the characteristics of buckshot ammunition not to be in the shotgun forum... Moving...

Brent
 
I used a shotgun in a couple of shootings early in my career. For LE use I found that #1 buck is the minimum I'd recommend. I don't see any use for a slug, if you need a slug then a rifle bullet will work better. For home defense I'd use #4 bird shot. I just don't see needing to shoot over about 20' inside a house. At that range you're likely to hit the BG with an ounce of lead at around 1200 fps. I also believe that if you're using a shotgun at night or any other 'dark' time you ought to aim for the crouch. Most misses in the dark are high. If the BG has body armor it won't be covering him there.
 
A #4 bird shot pellet weighs about 3.24 grains. A #1 buck shot pellet weighs about 40 grains. A #4 lead bird shot pellet will not penetrate nearly as far as a #1 lead buck shot pellet, and, of course, neither will penetrate nearly as far as any lead or solid copper slug. To "stop" the bad guy immediately shotgun pellets must penetrate about 12". A #4 bird shot hit would certainly produce a horrible center of mass wound, but it is much less likely to stop the bad guy immediately.
 
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#4 buckshot would be ok #4 bird shot is for pheasants. People make a big deal about energy transfer. An oz of lead at 1200fps is going to hurt but if it does not penetrate it is not going to knock you down and it is not going to stop you. Penetration is the key so the bigger the shot the better.

00 buckshot is over 8mm
#4 buckshot is 6mm ish
#4 bird shot is 3mm ish

Pretty big differences.
 
Buckshot and slugs will penetrate walls better than .223, so be judicious in that endeavor. It is not always the best choice for HD depending on layout, neighbors, etc.....
 
Seriously. The human heart does not sit under 12" of tissue. A center mass shot in to the heart with just about any load is a thug buster. On the other hand, an angled shot through a thick coat, the lower lats up through the ribs, and the heart might be more than 12" deep.

I think 12" is a generalization. Heck, I know a psycho relative-in-law that killed a deer with birdshot at 20 yards... 7 shots in fact. Yeah, that guy scares me.
 
The human heart does not sit under 12" of tissue.
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I think 12" is a generalization.
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12" of ballistic gel is the accepted standard.

The human chest is considerably tougher than gel - ribs, cartilage, connective tissue, etc. .... 12" of gel is considered adequate penetration.
 
From my memory I believe the 12 inch minimum was after the horrible Miami FBI killings. Before that incident I believe 6-8 inches was acceptable. The 12 inch standard was for angle shots going through arms and chest cavities. I recently patterned my 12 gauge 2 3/4 inch 00 buck from an 18 inch barrel cylinder bore and the results were terrible. I would not rely on a 25 yard shot with this setup, too much spread. I do still use this setup for home defense as my longest shot would be half of that and well within the pattern range. I'm going to be using a 12 gauge for coyote hunting later this month and I plan on trying different chokes and loads, (I was always under the impression that cylinder bore was best for buckshot, but my testing does not agree!) My brother killed a large doe at 60 yards using 00 buck and a full choke Rem 870. There were only three pellets in the vitals but it did the trick.
 
Penetration with bird shot pellets and buckshot pellets is a function of the weight of the individual pellets, not the weight of all of the pellets in the load. If this was not true, then a one ounce load of No. 8 shot and a one ounce slug would have identical penetration out of the same shotgun with the same muzzle velocity. Of course we all know that no shotgun pellet, regardless of size, will penetrate as much as a slug.
 
I talked to a Viet Nam vet at the range a while back. He told me they used #4 or #6 shot for breeching and it was quite effective for anything inside 50 feet as well. Said you really needed buckshot after 50 feet or so but nothing kept it from working closer.

I keep my house shotgun loaded with 3" 15 pellet 00 buck now, but I wouldn't be afraid to trust #4 buck for inside the room distances. I've trusted it before but thankfully never had to try it.
 
Since I am limited, currently, to 20 gauge guns, I am stuck with #3 Buck as thwe commonly available maximum pellet size... I feel confident that it will do the job at inside the home distance but don't expect one round to be the thug stopper i need so I am ready and practiced in fast assessment and and followup shot/s...

I also have a boot full of slugs if needed... My Ol' Stevens double gun has 2 slugs and my Mossberg 500 holds a full payload of the buck...

Brent
 
I think the biggest myth/misconception I see with buck is that "x" oz or grains of shot is the same as that in a slug or "#4 buck is still pretty much a slug at HD range"... like lefteye touched on.

Went round and round with a co-worker/shooting buddy on that one. Best explanation I could come up with was "Would you rather have me huck a solid 1 pound rock at you or 1 pound of pea gravel?" It clicked after that.

I keep 2 3/4 00 buck in both my 12's at home, with one 3 1/2" shell in my 870 stuffed in first so it'd be the last shell I fire, I figure if I run through all the shorter ones I probably need that super mag load to settle things. Follow up shot is slow at best after a 16 pellet shell for me so it's best to leave that one for last.
 
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"The human heart does not sit under 12" of tissue."

IF, and I mean IF, every shooting involved your target standing still, facing you, arms at sides, then 12 inches of penetration would be overkill.

But, oddly enough, humans tend to move around. In a firefight situation, they tend to move around a LOT, which includes ducking, turning side to side, leaning over, putting their arms up, etc...

When you start adding in all of the possible angles and the such, you quickly get to, and can even surpass, 12".
 
#4 Remington Buck Test

#4: 13''-15'' of penetration

#1 FC Buck Test

#1: 17''-18''' penetration

would #4 be an effective combat load beyond the 25 yard mark?
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The big factor would be patterning at that distance. I'd take either the #1 or 00 FC load at that distance due to the tight patterns they hold. The #1 I tested above holds about a 2'' group at 15m with no choke for what it's worth.
 
I keep hearing people concerned about "over penetration". Use proper tactics and this mitigates the risk. The other risk is the stray pellet, Shotgun pellets have a way of acting unpredictably. A Shotgun lost favor with me as a general purpose gun years ago. Today, for me its only use is defending a position and I generally want slugs, but 00 buck will do if they are close enough.
 
plouffedaddy. Great test thank you for the info. Both worked well but I'm leaning toward the #4 buck for HD, seemed to work really well and stay in the gel. Thanks again.
 
Those are a novelty round without the knock down of bird shot. They may incite fear if used against a group though.
 
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