Browning/Saive/FNH Hi-Power question

Arguments about semantics aside, Hi-Powers were also made at the government arsenal in Indonesia, but I don't remember if it was under license from FN or not.

The Indian guns were copies of Inglis guns, as stated earlier.
 
The Indian guns were copies of Inglis guns, as stated earlier.
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The Inglis guns were, for all practical purposes, LICENSED copies -- as FN sent the Allies the specs and blue-prints, etc., when it became clear that the Germans would soon be in control of the FN facilities early in WWII. While NOT LICENSED in the strictest sense of the term, they were made with FN approval. The FN-produced guns made AFTER the Germans took over were a slightly different story.

I can't add a thing about Indian-made Hi-Powers; I think this is the first discussion I've read that even talked about them.
 
I can't add a thing about Indian-made Hi-Powers; I think this is the first discussion I've read that even talked about them.
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I saw them advertised for sale here in the last 15 years or so. They are recent production.
 
Since the thread is already wandering (around Zimbabwe by now, I think), I'll note that the Dogtown Tom's version of the Browning-Winchester break is not quite accurate.

While Browning had worked out an autoloading shotgun by 1899 and shown it to Winchester, the company's concerns about patent infringement delayed things. As was his custom, Browning let Winchester take care of the paperwork and the first patents on the shotgun were not filed by Winchester until the next year. The final patent was not filed until Jan. 11, 1902, and it was just prior to that date that the subject of a royalty arrangement came up. Browning went to see Marcellus Hartley on Jan. 8, 1902, and that was the day Hartley died during a luncheon meeting, at the age of 74.

Browning then sailed to Belgium to arrange with FN to manufacture the gun. He did not take a train to Utah or accidentally run into an FN representative. In fact, Browning was well known to FN, which had been making his Model 1899/1900 pistol for a couple of years by that time, although the 1902 trip was his first time he had been overseas.

An interesting sidelight is that Winchester then turned to its in-house designer, the capable Thomas Crossly Johnson, to design an autoloading shotgun for them. He finally came up with the Winchester Model 11, which was not very successful. Poor Tommy! Not only did he have to come up with a workable design, but he had to work around Browning's patents, which had been drawn up very tightly by Seymour and Earl, Winchester's own patent attorneys!!

Jim
 
I came by my information from R Blake Stephens books, and do not claim it as original research.......where did you learn your version?
 
My main source was Winchester - the Gun That Won the West, by Harold F. Williamson, a history of the Winchester company and a fascinating book. Since Williamson had full access to the company records and history, I am inclined to consider it a reliable source. The information on Hartley's amazing life and his death was obtained through Google. Vanderlinden's The Belgian Browning Pistols provided information on the FN connection, though he gives yet another version of the Hartley story. There have been several versions of the Browning-Winchester-Remington story; Edwards is a recent one and, like many other writers, he probably copied from others.

That Browning was certainly well known to FN is scarcely in doubt; by early 1902, FN had made 10,000 of the Model 1899 and about the same number of Model 1900's, though Model 1899 production ceased in 1901.

Jim
 
I have read several different versions of the JMB Winchester story over the years. They are all similar with minor variations.
 
Like the story of Colt and the Winchester revolver. One version has the head of Winchester calling Hugo Borchardt into his office. A long distance call - Borchardt was in Budapest at the time.

Jim
 
About 10 years ago some were imported by FNH-USA.

FNHighPower.jpg
 
lechiffre said:
About 10 years ago some were imported by FNH-USA.
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Yup they tried to sell them to LEO and failed again the newest tactical plastic. Many of the guns had the Novak SFS system installed which they believed would appeal to departments more than the SAO traditional setup of the BHP.

These are the guns that were sold by CDNN for as low as $450 IIRC. They has FN rollmarks and were labeled with an import mark from Columbia, SC or Fredericksburg, VA depending on when they were imported. They were all MKIIIs.

You might get lucky and find a NOS gun but I personally have not seen one NIB for about 8 years. If I could find one with the Fredericksburg rollmark I would buy it. I lived there for over a decade! ;)
 
Someone out there should be able to shed light on the Howco "Hi-Power 88" guns that were imported in the 80s. What was the deals on those?
 
Howco was just an importer of FN rollmarked guns in the 80s. IIRC they were mostly MKIIs frames with the old half moon sights with a parkerized finish. I ready somewhere that they also imported some competition guns but I personally have never seen one.

They were imported for the North American Military market in contrast to the Browning marked guns which were for the commerical market. At the time FN did not import them into the US directly under the FN name so they used secondary importers like Howco.
 
I think the portions of the Browning contracts quoted in the Stevens book are accurate but incomplete, missing some preliminary "boiler plate". The term "Automatic Pistols" (note the capital letters) can refer only to those pistols based on Browning's patents. The term "exclusive right" in context means that Browning allowed only FN/Colt to produce his designs; he would not sell the production rights to any other company. It does not mean that either company could never make an automatic pistol designed by someone else. Browning could not keep either company from using someone else's patents; he had control over only his designs, and he kept that by having the patents filed in his name, not in the name of the company.*

In fact, FN produced the "Baby Browning" c. 1935. It is not a Browning design and no agreement with Browning stopped FN from producing it. Browning died in 1926, several years before it was designed by an FN design team.

*That was where Winchester made a mistake; they drew up and filed the Auto 5 patents in Browning's name before the breakup came, and those patents hampered their own later auto shotgun design.

Jim
 
Here's my batch.
8071383712_17cc62a120_b.jpg


The 2 MKIII FN Hi Powers are Israeli PD guns.
The re-parked gun was bought from:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Pistols/BI.aspx?Sort=5&IncludeSellers=2621012

Nice thing about this seller on Gunbroker is no nasty Import Marks like those being sold by Aim and other sellers. If buying surplus - look for one that has a solid trigger pin instead of a roll pin.

Being left handed I like the MKIII FN HP's for their ambi-safety and dovetailed sights.
 
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