Browning Hi Power How do you carry?

JohnMoses said:
You could always use the Mossad method. Condition 3 (chamber empty), draw the gun, ram it downward catching the rear sight on the holster and cocking & chambering a round.
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I don't think that's actually how the Israeli Draw is executed.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/in-defense-of-israeli-carry/

https://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com/2010/09/myths-of-israeli-method-of-carry-or-why.html

http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/a-brief-exercise-with-the-mossad-draw/

https://pistol-training.com/archives/219
 
wow thanks for all the replies here! You have convinced me to go back to the cocked and locked! I just got the belly band holster which has a strap that goes under the hammer so I can carry is safely. Just have to get used to clicking off the safety hopefully will never need to do it in an emergency. Happy Thanksgiving to All!

Brian in Mi
 
I carried various HiPowers for a couple decades. Most often, I used a simple clip-on leather scabbard worn IWB cross draw.
When I found I shot the G26 as well or better, I stopped carrying the Hipower.
 
It's easier and more accurate to acknowledge that the 1911 and the BHP following the 1911, were built to be carried 3 ways. This was intentional and explained well by Aguila Blanca in post #15.

The U.S. military required those functions so JMB and Colt engineers (who were the best in the business in the U.S. at that time, by the way) made it so for the 1911.

Jeff Cooper, in the post war period, came up with the terms Condition one (cocked and locked), Condition 2 (hammer down on a live round) and Condition 3 (hammer down on an empty chamber). The Army had different terms, but these basic three were it. The military used all three.

Oh, a small piece of 1911 trivia: When the Army complained that it was hard to lower the hammer, and thus safely holster the gun with two hands while on a bucking horse, Browning came up with a modification that allowed the hammer to be lowered one handed. It proved not to be enough and so the thumb safety.

tipoc
 
tipoc said:
Oh, a small piece of 1911 trivia: When the Army complained that it was hard to lower the hammer, and thus safely holster the gun with two hands while on a bucking horse, Browning came up with a modification that allowed the hammer to be lowered one handed.
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Correct. On a properly-configured 1911, pulling the hammer all the way back (beyond the full-cocked position) allows the hammer spur to depress the grip safety tang, thus releasing the trigger and allowing the hammer to be lowered -- if you can manage it without your thumb slipping off the hammer and discharging the firearm.
 
Correct. On a properly-configured 1911, pulling the hammer all the way back (beyond the full-cocked position) allows the hammer spur to depress the grip safety tang, thus releasing the trigger and allowing the hammer to be lowered -- if you can manage it without your thumb slipping off the hammer and discharging the firearm.
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That was the rub. The Army placed the modified guns in the field with select units and it proved to be an effective way of lowering the hammer safely when a fella was standing still and paying attention. Alas! it proved less useful on horseback at a gallop, for a soldier running, or for a fella under pressure. Seems soldiers have to do that sort of thing occasionally. So the thumb safety.

tipoc
 
The method I described is the 1 handed variant of the Mossad method. If you choose condition 3 carry and lose the use of 1 hand, or have something VERY important in your off hand, you will have no way to employ your handgun unless you train to do it one handed.
 
JohnMoses said:
The method I described is the 1 handed variant of the Mossad method. If you choose condition 3 carry and lose the use of 1 hand, or have something VERY important in your off hand, you will have no way to employ your handgun unless you train to do it one handed.
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That is correct, but you didn't describe it as a "variant," you described it as the Mossad method.

That variant won't work unless your pistol has a rear sight that's sharp/abrupt enough to hook on something, and that something has to be strong and rigid enough to hold the slide against the tension of the recoil spring. That eliminates all nylon holsters, many (if not most) leather holsters, and possibly several kydex holsters (don't know, since I don't own any kydex holsters).
 
HighValleyRanch said:
Did nobody check my link above for carry down method? Hammer down, ready to fire when safety is deactivated.
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But that method is not available unless/until you install an aftermarket conversion kit. That kit costs $124.95 in blue or $144.95 in stainless, and C&S wants another $90 (plus shipping) to install it. You may feel qualified to install it yourself, but my guess is that someone who isn't comfortable carrying cocked and locked probably isn't qualified to be doing moderately advanced gunsmithing work on a pistol's fire control and safety mechanisms.

https://cylinder-slide.com/Category/SFSkits
 
As to carrying with a full mag and an empty chamber, I find that both of my Hi Powers take considerably more effort when racking the slide than do any of my other autos...that includes a half dozen 1911's of Colt, Ruger & Sig manuf., as well as 5 DA/SA Sigs of 9mm, .45 and .40 S&W caliber.

My BHP's are chambered in 9mm & .40 S&W, and both have original mainspring and recoil springs installed, BTW. Both guns' racking movements are heavy enough that I only carry them in Condition One...Cocked and Locked.

Lowering the hammer on them, for whatever reason, on a chambered round demands a very tight grip on the hammer itself, and with the support hand thumb blocking the firing pin...this is a major difference from the same operation with a 1911 of any caliber, and is perhaps my one gripe about the BHP, and I've been an aficionado for over 50 years now.

Best Regards, and a Happy Thanksgiving to you all. Rod
 
EmptyChamber.jpg
 
rodfac said:
As to carrying with a full mag and an empty chamber, I find that both of my Hi Powers take considerably more effort when racking the slide than do any of my other autos...that includes a half dozen 1911's of Colt, Ruger & Sig manuf., as well as 5 DA/SA Sigs of 9mm, .45 and .40 S&W caliber.

My BHP's are chambered in 9mm & .40 S&W, and both have original mainspring and recoil springs installed, BTW. Both guns' racking movements are heavy enough that I only carry them in Condition One...Cocked and Locked.

Lowering the hammer on them, for whatever reason, on a chambered round demands a very tight grip on the hammer itself, and with the support hand thumb blocking the firing pin...this is a major difference from the same operation with a 1911 of any caliber, and is perhaps my one gripe about the BHP, and I've been an aficionado for over 50 years now.

Best Regards, and a Happy Thanksgiving to you all. Rod
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Indeed, the hammer spring on my BHP is pretty tough. Working the slide or thumbing back the hammer are both significantly more work on that model over many others, and far more than simply using the safety.
 
"...just like JMB designed it..." As mentioned, JM did not fully design the BHP. He did not include the silly mag safety either. That was put in by Saive to comply with European police requirements. Since the BHP was not designed for military issue. Despite its huge success doing that.
I'm kind of surprised this wasn't discussed on your CCW course. How to safely carry any firearm is important. Safety is primarily in the head of the user. One's experience makes a huge difference. Keep in mind that you are not going into combat.
Anyway, the most comfortable method of carry is very subjective. Has as much to do with your shape as anything else. So is how you carry. A BHP can be carried the same way any 1911A1 is carried (a la Cooper's Conditions) with no fuss.
"...the Mossad method..." That is not for a new CCW guy.
"...thought it was a SMG..." Somebody tried to do a trigger job without knowing how. Mind you, I know a guy who had a semi'd Uzi that would go FA with light cast bullet reloads.
"...The Army had different terms..." Yep. And it was "OUR WAY OR ELSE!". snicker. That's usually Cooper's Condition 3. Military pistol use is not universal. Not everybody gets one. Pistols are status symbols and for those whose job doesn't allow hauling a rifle around. Pistols are for last ditch, "OMG! Where'd I put my rifle?", situations.
"...spur hammer back around '70-'71..." There were spurs long before then.
 
T. O'Heir said:
Pistols are status symbols and for those whose job doesn't allow hauling a rifle around. Pistols are for last ditch, "OMG! Where'd I put my rifle?", situations.
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Mr. O'Heir, please remember that you are in Canada, which does not have an analog to the U.S. Second Amendment. I have carry licenses/permits from five states and I'm legal to carry in something like 40 or our fifty states. I do NOT consider my pistols to be "status symbols." Status symbols are shown off and bragged about. I carry concealed so that -- unless I goof -- nobody knows I;'m carrying. And I tell as few people as possible that O own firearms. I suspect that's true for a great many members of this site (and other "gun" sites), and this does not fit the pattern of guns as status symbols.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
Mr. O'Heir, please remember that you are in Canada, which does not have an analog to the U.S. Second Amendment. I have carry licenses/permits from five states and I'm legal to carry in something like 40 or our fifty states. I do NOT consider my pistols to be "status symbols." Status symbols are shown off and bragged about. I carry concealed so that -- unless I goof -- nobody knows I;'m carrying. And I tell as few people as possible that O own firearms. I suspect that's true for a great many members of this site (and other "gun" sites), and this does not fit the pattern of guns as status symbols.
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I believe he is saying that pistols are status symbols for those in the military, which is something he has repeated often. I tend not to agree. The guards on many military installations are often armed directly with pistols, with rifles being some distance away in a guard shack, TOC, etc. Military guards and military police certainly use their firearms on occasion. We’ve had a number of shootings on military installations, from Fort Hood, to the Washington Naval Yard, to Pearl Harbor. Those pistols are more than status symbols.


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TunnelRat said:
I believe he is saying that pistols are status symbols for those in the military, which is something he has repeated often. I tend not to agree. The guards on many military installations are often armed directly with pistols, with rifles being some distance away in a guard shack, TOC, etc. Military guards and military police certainly use their firearms on occasion. We’ve had a number of shootings on military installations, from Fort Hood, to the Washington Naval Yard, to Pearl Harbor. Those pistols are more than status symbols.


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Indeed.

I have a cousin who served quite some time as a Balckhawk pilot (both Gulf Wars, Afghanistan) and he certainly didn't view his M9 as a decoration, I recall him compalining when he had to spend some time in Egypt and they didn't allow them to keep their sidearms, he said he felt pretty uncomfortable without it.
 
As much as I believe T. OHeir's posts are generally poppycock, I agree with him on this one.

"Status symbol" can mean several things.
For example WHO was traditionally issued a handgun in the military.....it's their "status" as an officer, a pilot, MP's or security forces. Your average infantryman was not generally issued a handgun.

Therefore if you were issued a handgun it was due to your rank, assignment or need to have a handgun in lieu of a rifle or carbine......ie status.
 
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