Browning Hi-Power: Educate me, please

S

Spats McGee

Administrator
Truth be told, I really only started paying attention to BHPs in the last, oh, 6 or 7 years. And the more I look at them, the more I like them. I've heard them described (in Star Wars terms) as "a more elegant weapon, from a more civilized age." :D

I went to a gun show early this year (like the 2nd of January or something) and spotted a bunch of HPs in the ~$400-500 range. It's been a few weeks now, but it seems like most of the ones I looked at were made in Hungary (?). I didn't have the funds for one, nor did I know if that was a good price, so I came home. A quick Gunbroker search shows prices ranging from ~$300-1300 (plus the "super special, very rare, collector's edition," and the sky's the limit for those).

I think I'd like a HP, or a decent-quality clone, as a range gun. I don't really need it for HD or carry, and probably would not use it for either. So, with that background:
1. What's a decent price for a shooter? I'm aware that the market varies from place to place, price is based on condition, etc., but my gunbroker searches really aren't narrowing it down much. I'm also an absolutely atrocious collector. I won't buy a gun with the expectation that it will sit in my safe. If I own it, I shoot it.
2. How much difference does country of manufacture matter? Are some countries' HPs more desirable than others?
3. What other peculiarities should I be aware of in this hunt?

Thanks in advance,
Spats
 
I wouldn't touch the Hungary made HP with a 10' pole but that's just my opinion.
On the other hand, I've been impressed with my FM Hi-Power. I took it to Cylinder and Slide for some upgrades and their comment was "better than some and as good as most FN or Browning production". AIM Surplus has some Middle Eastern issue Hi-Powers listed at a decent price. Depends on whether you're looking for a collector or a shooter.
 
I bought a Hungarian clone for $200 in the late 1980's. It is accurate, fits the hand well, and has always functioned perfectly. The trigger and sights are so-so. I think that CDI Sales on Gunbroker usually has surplus clones for $400 or so. You really can't go wrong for that price. A lot of countries issued the BHP to their militaries. It served them well and would do the same for you.
 
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There are sites dedicated to the Hi-Power and clones. Look for some of them and you will find all the information you need. There is another thread on here right now about a Hi-Power and someone has posted a link to one of those sites.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=571529

I like them, have a couple, including a F.E.G. clone (made in Hungary.) (assuming it shows up sometime and gets returned to me.) (Keep a list of your serial numbers; it makes it possible for them to get back to you if they ever get stolen.)
 
I have 3 FN Hi Powers - 2 MKIII and 1 MKII. Being a left hander I like the MKIII (latest version) the best. I like the factory ambi-safety and taller dovetailed sights.

Factory trigger pulls are between horrible and gawd awful. Removing the magazine disconnect on the MKIII helps. Replacing the trigger spring with a Wolf Extra Power Trigger Return Spring helps even more.

I get a little hammer bite from the MKIII hammer. The fix is to trim a hair of the back of the hammer spur. Haven't gotten around to that yet.

Regarding pricing - both of my MKIII's are Israeli surplus guns. My re-parked gun was bought from Coles on Gunbroker for around $480. His HP offerings are getting slim.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Pistols/BI.aspx?Sort=4&IncludeSellers=2621012

The beater looking MKIII is a PW Arms import and has horrible import markings on the other side of the slide. It is all matching as far as Serial Numbers. That one also came from Gunbroker for around $375.

The MKII pistol was bought from a friend for $450.

8071383712_17cc62a120_b.jpg


Regarding copies - FEG makes a good one that is interchangeable with FN/Browning parts.
Example: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=536390749

The single action Bulgarian Arcus Hi Powers are good - just different looking.
Example: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=534984732

The Argentine FM Hi Powers are good.
Example: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=536388621

Personally - I like guns from the original factory = FN/Browning.

Edit: Looks like Aim Surplus just got another batch of Israeli FN MK3's
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...i+Power+9mm+Pistol+Standard+Mk+2&groupid=5389

Note some have solid trigger pins and some have roll pins for trigger pins. If you are so inclined to buy one from there - I'd call and ask them to handpick one with a solid trigger pin - not a roll pin.

Edited for Ibmikey:)
 
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FN has identified two of their models (Mk II and Mk III) but there has never been a Mk I other than the Englis HP of WWII which was designated Mk I *. Many owners are quite happy with their FEG made clones and I have shot several that were every bit as functional and accurate as my FN produced pistols (Browning imports FN produced pistols, has not made a HP in this country).
The pistols offered by Aim, Mk II and MkIII, are a real bargain most of the time as you take "pick of the litter" and may get a newer pistol or one that has some mileage on it. All will have scratched enamel that can easily be removed and refinished giving you a really nice High Power to shoot. I have found their Mk III pistols to be in better condition than the Mk II as they are newer and possibly carried/fired less......they also cost a little more.
The Mk III is probably the best of the High Power pistols produced for long term shooting although prior years are really collectable for their craftsmanship and finish.
 
Here is my FEG clone. It has been rode hard and put up wet for over 25 years and still functions perfectly. The original grips were wooden. I have never approached it with a 10' Pole, though my friend Peotr is 6'9"...


FEGHighPower_zps3d293b0c.jpg
 
The BHP was the standard in IPSC "minor power factor" competition in the 1990's. They ooze quality. I had one worked over by Cyliner & Slide back in the day. They are heavy so if edc is your plans, be prepared with a quality holster.
 
Spats, there's a lengthy article about the Hi-Power in the new issue of Firearms (formerly Shotgun) News.

The "go to guy" for all things Hi-Power was the late Stephen Camp. He had a web site dedicated to the Hi-Power at http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/ . The site is still up, maintained (I believe) by his widow in his memory. There's also a decent discussion area for the Hi-Power on the M1911.org forum at http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?86-Browning-Hi-Power

The Hi-Power is an iconic handgun. In Europe (and many other parts of the world) it's much more iconic than the M1911. I have had no exposure to the FEG Hi-Power clones, but I have shot the Argentinean FM clone and they're excellent shooters. For some reason, though, they didn't narrow the slide at the muzzle, so they don't look quite like a "real" Hi-Power.
 
Spats, in the $400-500 range that you saw, consider getting a real FN or Browning roll marked Hi-Power over the FEG unless you find a beautiful FEG. The surplus FNs will look rough but probably just have cosmetic issues. Some FEGs have nice, shiny bluing but they aren't licensed Hi-Powers (though they are good clones that use standard parts, except for the double action model).

I got a surplus Mark III for around $425. The epoxy finish is scratched but otherwise it's functionally in good shape. I like having the Browning rollmark also (most will say FN). The Mark III has decent sights and the feed ramp is throated to feed ammo better, and has the ambi safety lever.

The Pre-1990 Argentine FM is an FN licensed Hi-Power, made to FN specs. Later models are good but no longer are FN licensed. I have an older FM which is excellent but paid much less than an FN.
 
... I have shot the Argentinean FM clone and they're excellent shooters. For some reason, though, they didn't narrow the slide at the muzzle, so they don't look quite like a "real" Hi-Power.
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That was a non-FN licensed FM. The pre-1990 models have the narrow muzzle. It's cheaper not to machine the front of the slide and it gives an interesting 1911 look. (Old slab side Hi-Power!)
 
I wouldn't touch the Hungary made HP with a 10' pole but that's just my opinion.
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You have a sad misconception about Hungarian firearms. FEG has been around (until they went bankrupt a few years ago) since 1891 and, until the last two years of production, the HP clones were first class, as good in both fit and finish as any Belgian made Hi-power.

Historically, their production of handguns includes the Frommer Stop series, the 29M and 37M pistols, and the Walam and PA 63 pistols, all first rate weapons made of excellent materials with excellent old world craftsmanship.
 
I purchased a reparked Israeli surplus Hi-Power from CDI Sales, and it basically looked like a new Parkerized gun, with which I was very pleased. Total cost with shipping was round $440.00
 
Right now in the BHP market not clones there are 2 ways to go IMHO.

Lots of people will direct you to CDI sales on GB AKA Coles Distribution is running low. They used to be the prime source for good surplus guns. He is at the bottom of the barrel these days. I would pass unless he gets some more guns in.

FN Belgium Hi Power 9mm Pistol Standard Mk 2 are available at AIM. They will be finished challenged but at $439.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...ail&utm_term=0_6870497a6a-5dc27e6aba-18942077

Or

FN MKIIIs for $479.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1FNHPMK3I

The differences between MKII and MKIII guns can be found here.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/DifferenceMkIIandMkIII.htm

For the most part is a stronger cast frame on the MKIIIs and dovetail front and rear sights. Personally I would go for a MKIII because they will last longer. In the end for me price drives the market. I have BHPs from the 50s to the 00s and they all shoot. Look for condition and for price.

People pay a larger premium for T series guns. Hard to find one less than $800 that is not a beater and when they are at that point the T means nothing. They are considered the height of fit and finish for many BHP collectors.

If you find a nice C series get it but most of them will have a small thumb safety and a half moon front sight or a adjustable rear sight. Hard to find a good one for less than $700.

I would pass on anything with an internal extractor. The internal extractor is a known weak point of the design. They break and are not produced anymore. Replacement extractors are hard to replace and when you find one they are expensive. That is why I recommend them for collector occasional shooters only.

If you are looking at clones the FEG, Charles Daly & FMs are the best of the breed but with their prices climbing into the $400 range I would choose a true FN/Browning even if it is finish challenged.

FM were made on Browning equipment under lic at one time. They are good clones. You see more FEGs than anything else and some of them are excellent. Some of their blued clones are stunning but you will pay a premium.

Charles Dalys are FEG parts assembled by Dan Wesson or Magnum Research, Inc. Only the first 500 were assembled by Dan Wesson. Their serial #s start with HP the Magnum Research guns serial #s start with HPM. If you find one of these they are great clones. The Spegel designed Uncle Mike grips that came with them are worth $60 by themselves. They are not seen very often but are great shooters. Only downside is that they have a XS big dot sights.I personally do not like them.

The other way to go is to stalk GB. You can find deals there. I bought a LNIB MKIII there for about $525 last year. I also picked up a lightly customized 1969 C series with a Bomar rear sight for $400. If you have the cash and are patient you can get nice BHPs on GB for the $500 to $600 range.
 
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There was a change in the steel at the point where they were offering the .40 cal version. The pre-change versions should be used only with standard pressure ammo while the post-change can also be used with + P ammo.
Treat your BHP well and it will last.
 
Lots of people will direct you to CDI sales on GB AKA Coles Distribution is running low. They used to be the prime source for good surplus guns. He is at the bottom of the barrel these days. I would pass unless he gets some more guns in.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I just looked at what Hi-Powers they have left and it's all pitted crap.
 
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The Hungarian FEG P9R is a well-made clone, worth the $250 or so you will pay for it.

The real Browning HP is getting pricey, but they are also worth the money. Condition is everything, though. When prices are at the levels they are now, every piece of poorly maintained metal comes out of the closet and gets a price tag slapped on it.

The AIM Surplus pistols are pretty good and another bargain.
 
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