bring enough gun !!

Some guys seem to think that if they don't have the skills and equipment to do something then it is automatically unethical for anyone else to do it. There are guys who have worked hard at becoming very good hunters and can get very close to animals. It is not at all unethical for them to use a rifle, handgun, long bow or some other weapon that most of us would never consider using. They know how to use it and can make it happen ethically.

The same is true of long range shooters. There are lots of guys who can ethically shoot animals at much longer range than the average hunter. It is not a matter of being too lazy to get closer. I can assure you they have spent the time at the range to become proficient to confidently take elk at 500+ yards. Just because I cannot do it does not make it unethical. I have a BIL who has taken several elk and mule deer at 700+ yards. So far none have taken 1 step after the shot.

I can assure you that the hunter that puts in the time to be able to shoot an elk or other larger animal at 15 yards with a longbow, or the guy who develops the skill to take game at 700 yards with a rifle has spent countless hours practicing his craft. Much more so than the average guy who limts himself to 300 yard shots with a modern rifle. Taking a 300 yard shot requires no more hunting ability than the guy who shoots at 700 yards and no more skill than shooting at 50 yards. With a modern rifle I can have a person who has never held a rifle hitting deer size targets 100% of the time at 300 yards on the 1st range trip.
 
Having enough gun is important, so is not having too much gun to handle. More important than both is having enough skill to make it work, including shooting ability, judging range, and woodsmanship.
 
Marketing

Like many industries, the shooting business depends on sales. If we are all satsified with that .223 for varmints and the .270 for hunting, reloading components and firearms and all othr associated equipments sales would be pretty slow. However, if you need a 300 Win mag, and you need .204 Ruger then the marketeers have money rolling in.

I say this with a smile, because I am a victim of said marketing. A big part of the fun to me is getting a new caliber to shoot and load for. An old geezer can spend literally hours and days developing loads and shooting a new gun.
All part of my personal stimulus plan. Support your local gun shop. :D
 
tahoe2 said:
I'm sure this has been said before, but so sick and tired of people trying to kill large animals with minimal cartridges.(can I shoot an Elk with a .243? or a Grizzly with a 30-30? )
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In 1953, according to my sources, Bella Twin, a native girl shot a large grizzly near Lesser Slave Lake with a .22 Long. (not .22LR, the shorter version). In 1965, a fellow named Jack Turner killed the world record grizzly with a .30-30.

Is killing a grizzly with a .22 a fluke? Happily, it worked out for that young lady. Is killing a grizzly with a .30-30 a fluke? Hardly. Lots of animals have fallen to that cartridge. Is it the gun I'd use for a grizzly hunt? No, but it is certainly capable.
 
It's not about bringing enough gun It's about bringing enough knowledge and skill. You don't need a .338 to kill an elk. Karamojo Bell killed how many elephants with .256s, .275s, and .303s. This was because he took the time to really learn the anatomy of the animal he was hunting. These days I think big calibers make up for skill. Guys just want to make an easy sloppy shot without having to deal with the homework that comes first. There's a difference between skilled hunted and large caliber killing.
 
Oh Boy! This is really timely. I live in a special regulation area in Pennsylvania. You can shoot doe until the end of January (Season ended Saturday). I shot a doe on Friday, and it was raining or I probably would not have been able to move around to a safe place to shoot it. I saw it was limping a little as it was feeding along and figured it had a lower leg shot off. Turns out it had a shattered bone below the shoulder blade, a real ugly wound with the shattered bone sticking out of the hide. I saw a hole in the hide near the spine and thought it was my exit hole. That was where something (Arrow,S-Slug, Bolt) had entered and then went out the shoulder. It is near a shot gun area and the hole was pretty big, so that would be my guess. It gets better. When I skinned it down, I found a healed over area where something had passed through below the spine at least a year before. There was even a piece of rib missing from the healed over area. That is the one thing I hate about this area. If you get a deer, it probably is shot up and you are lucky if the meat is not spoiled. I use a .223, .22 Savage Hi-Power, and have used .250's, .243's, and everything else you can imagine. I have never emptied a lever action (99 Savage, it would be embarrassing to be seen with a Winchester) or a bolt action or a pump at a deer. Bring enough gun my butt, bring enough skill.
 
Bring enough gun my butt, bring enough skill.
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Great comment! That really sums it up better than anything!
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+2
When i read a thread like this one i'm reminded of a friend who often bragged of all the big game he killed. We went hog hunting at a wheatfield. The guy summarily shot a huge sow in the guts with his .300 Win Mag and someones magic bullet. The hog ran into a plum thicket. We kicked the sow out of the thicket and he shot her in the guts again. Finally after three or four shots we had a dead hog.

Then he wanted me to field dress his hog. Told him he could do it under instruction. The guy gagged and wretched at the stinking green goo as he gutted that hog. Strange, he never asked to hog hunt with me again.
 
Bring enough gun my butt, bring enough skill.
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exactly the point I've been trying to make.

growing up I knew a guy(for the sake of the story, we'll call him scooter) who claimed and argued vehemently that the 300 Win Mag was the greatest deer round ever designed and constantly bragged about the deer that his dad had killed with the rifle he now used. me and my hunting buddies always just smiled adn rolled our eyes because year after year me(using my dads 243) and my best friend(using his dads 30-30) got our deer with 2 or less well placed shots while scooter came back weekend after weekend with a story about the latest buck that he had shot that got away.
 
The only ethical question is can YOU take the game as humainely as possible. 1 shot 1 kill.

Most of the bigger is better come from paid/compensated gun scribes who are schills for the manufactures. There was a certain gun writer whom I had a great deal of respect for. I respected him until I learned that he faked his data.

When asked what gun is best, I ask some simple questions: Do you hit what you shoot at? Does it put the animal on the ground? If the answer is yes then that it the gun for you.

As to target shooters not being good hunters, a good target shooter has the skills to dope wind. I remember a top target shooter who was basically forced into an antelope hunt. Point of Honor. They walked out on the hunt. A antelope was spotted out about 500 yds. He dropped into a proper sitting position. Fired 1 shot and dropped the animal. To my knowledge he never hunted again.

Marksmanship trumps caliber and hot air everyday.
 
I've seen elk die with one shot from a .243, and I've seen Bighorn sheep die with one shot from a .300 win mag. There was a true story about a grizz atack in Cody during bow season where one hunter saved another with one shot from his Hoyt. Dude was lucky!

The most important thing in hunting is being prepared and knowing the laws. I don't really think one persons preferance for caliber is any better than the next. Heck, i saw a guy hunting antegoats with an SKS!

To each their own if they can make it work. Marksmanship and knowing your limits is the most important.

Happy hunting!
 
In another thread here I expounded my thoughts that I no longer feel the need to handicap myself with a poor choice in guns and cartridge selection plays a part in that. But "the use enough gun" crap goes way over board. Magnumitus runs rampant today and it's amazing how cartridges that have proven themselves over time are no longer big enough. If I was going on an Elk hunt I'd probably swap out my .243 barrel for a 7mm-08, I use centerfires on predators not a .22M, I use a 12ga instead of a 20, use pointy bullets and guns that shoot them instead of classics like the .30-30 lever gun, etc etc.

But there is a line though and critters aren't armor plated.

LK
 
If I could legally shoot deer with a .22 LR (under 75 yrds / head shot) I would do so and not waste so much money on ammo...But since I have to use bigger bullets to make P.E.T.A. and other animal nuts happy, that no animal suffers, I use these calibers on deer and if possible anything else I can hunt (large bodied animals) .243, .25-06, .270, 7mm-08, and my favorite .308. Why the hell carry something that's meant to kill Godzilla ???? Little guys I like my .17 hmr, .22lr .204 and .22-250. I did feed into some frenzies once upon a time of more gun "bigger the better". Now I know better and teach my boys the same.
 
I know all the "long range" shooters are callin me a dipstick right now, but I know my ability(or lack thereof) requires me to get closer.
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There's a cure for what ails you, and it is trigger time, in the field, or as close to "in the field" as you can get.
 
I once found an old worn out dime store guitar at a place in which I was employed.


I fancied myself to be a guitar player when in reality I was a novice.


I made a comment that the guitar was crap and couldn't be played worth a darn.


Upon hearing this, and without saying a word, a coworker pulled some finger picks out of his pocket, put them on and commenced playing a real purdy classical guitar song.


Afterwards, I have always remember not to blame equipment for human shortcomings
 
If one were hunting at a time when game was plentiful, seasons long, and hunters few he might use less than adequate cartridges.
However, the conditions today are much different, and during a hunt a person might get one chance under less than perfect conditions. In addition, no one is so good that they can always place the shot perfectly under field conditions.

Cartridges like the 30-30 and lesser ones have taken a lot of game. But if one is going to go to the effort and expense, and maybe get drawn once in years, it makes no sense to me to use less than an adequate cartridge. When you consider the expense of a hunt, other than local, I would buy another gun if I did not have one that was adequate.

We can argue the fine points as to what cartridge is adequate, but I would not hunt elk with 30-30 class of cartridges regardless of what your grandfather did.

If one wants to hunt with a muzzle loader then that is fine, but if you are going to hunt centerfire use an adequate cartridge.

Jerry
 
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