Breathalyzer test required for Homecoming Dance

Lemme share a little of "the flip side of the coin"...

I am a florida resident and well aware of some of the cases where "Zero Tolerance" rules have ruined the records of otherwise excellent kids with no other bad marks in their file...

Here is the "flip side"... There is a SMALL rural K-12 PUBLIC school which I will not name for fear that someone may find out how the "officials" do not honor the state mandated rules...

This school has an Agriculture program. The teacher of the ag classes knows which students carry the sharper knives to open feed sacks and cut bailing twine etc...

He has been heard telling "little Johnny" that he needs to learn to sharpen a knife.

This school has averaged a graduating class of 40-60 students each year since the 40's. This number would decrease severely and they would lose numerous faculty if they "raided" the parking lot full of (mostly) pick up trucks. They would find numerous guns and machetes during non-hunting seasons and exponentially more during hunting seasons...

This was a school I was proud to have educating my kids!

Brent
 
This was a school I was proud to have educating my kids
Click to expand...


As I would....
Click to expand...


Make that three of us.

Unfortunately, most schools just aren't that way anymore.:(

I'd bet anything, the parents of those kids actually knew where their kids were at the majority of the time. If a parent saw a kid, any kid, acting up to warrant some attention, someones parent gave it and the kid had enough respect to listen cause if the kid didn't and word got back to his/her own parent , there was extreme consequence's.

Yea, thoughs were the days.

A friend of mine retired and went back to work driving a school bus. His last two years have been spent driving kids to a school district in which they don't live in cause they've got in so much trouble where they are supposed to attend, that district threw them out....the law says the kids have to be educated.

The system's more than broke...it's totaled.
 
Last edited:
shortwave, the point hogdogs is making (since he's my age, roughly) is that his current or recent high school age kids attended this school recently, not in the good old days.

In other words, his local school, and local community, still practice common sense and parental involvement.
 
Respectfully, you're not a cop, you're not the Gestapo. Don't try playing one. The best you should be able to do is throw them out. You don't need a breathalyzer for that, just throw them out.
Click to expand...

Zincwarrior, you're right, I am not a cop nor do I wish to be one. I really don't appreciate being referred to as Gestapo even if it was done respectfully :rolleyes:. I do not know what your profession is or how knowledgeable you are about the Michigan codes dealing with education, but I would venture you do not have any idea what you are talking about. I also imagine you do not even come close to understanding what is required of a teacher by the state, community in general, and parents in providing a safe environment for students. I will tell you this sir, if a student is in my classroom talking about scoring or selling drugs, he is going to get searched. If I am chaperoning a dance and a student appears to be drunk, if I have the means, he or she is going to be tested. If that student leaves the dance under the influence of alcohol or whatever substance and proceeds to hurt themselves that's bad enough. I would have to live with that and the fact that I am going to lose my job and most likely be hit with a civil suit. Apparently though, I did not make myself clear earlier, I DO NOT THINK THAT TESTING EVERY PERSON THAT ENTERED THE DANCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO A BREATHALYZER. As it has already been stated, the message this sends to the students is that we don't trust them, and that is not the way to build a good relationship.

MLeake, the schools of the '70s are not the schools of today. I grew up in the 70's, I was there. Discipline was a lot different then. If you screwed up, you would pay the price, at school and then when you got home, mom or dad was going to take care of business too. Like I said earlier, I do not want to get into a long discussion about changes, but the one I have noticed the most is the amount of single parent households there are now compared to when I was in school. It was rare among my classmates that there were not two parents in the household. Today the norm is more single parent households. It's rare if my students have both parents at home. Even if they have both parents at home, I see such a lack of parenting skills. The line I hear the most now when talking to a parent about their child is "I just don't know what to do with him/her." I always want to tell the there is nothing you can do, you lost that battle years ago. Maybe this is not the norm where you live. I can tell you it is what I am seeing where I live and work because I graduated from the same school district where I teach.
 
trophyrider,

Thank You for your dedication in our education system.

I know a guy that spent four years in college to become a teacher. His mother was an Asst. Vice Principal and he wanted to follow in her footsteps.

He graduated college, taught school for a few years.
He's currently a car sales mgr. as he no longer could deal with the lack of respect shown by the students with no means of dealing with problems as there was no backing from parents or administrative staff.
 
trophyrider, my uncle retired in 2003; my godson just finished a year at community college, and has just started at WVU, and my younger cousins are in elementary through high school. I am not involved in anywhere near the same way you are, but the stories I hear are a bit more current than the 70's and 80's.

I still think the way to deal with problem kids is to actually deal with problem kids - and their parents, when necessary.

The right way is not to treat all kids as if they are problems waiting to happen. Based on your last post, you seem to agree.
 
Yes, I was speaking of a current school. This same school still deals out "swats" for many transgressions too.

Brent
 
Yes, I was speaking of a current school. This same school still deals out "swats" for many transgressions too.
Click to expand...

Oooh, you had to bring that up didn't you. My butt is stinging just thinking about it. lol

Ah.....the good ol days. Hurry up and get them Gym shorts on under your pants.


I've opened a can a worms and their crawling out faster than a falling prom dress........
 
Last edited:
I still think the way to deal with problem kids is to actually deal with problem kids - and their parents, when necessary.

The right way is not to treat all kids as if they are problems waiting to happen. Based on your last post, you seem to agree.
Click to expand...

MLeake, I agree 100% with a little tweak to your statement. You don't treat any student as a problem waiting to happen. You deal with people as individuals. Teaching is a second career for me, this is my 10th year. I spent 20 years working in the grocery business, 15 of them in a management capacity as an assistant, and then the store director. The best part of that job was working with the young kids, depending on the store I was in, as many as 50 to 60 of them. Even back then I marveled how good some kids were despite how bad their parents were.

The only statements I have had a problem with is some of the rhetoric flying around about the indoctrination of the youth, turning them into good, little compliant subjects. I guess the best thing I can say about that is I'm glad some people read George Orwell's 1984. You should also read Animal Farm. It's just as good. :D

If you don't like what is going on in your schools, get involved. I wish more parents did.

Thank you Shortwave. There are days I wondered what the heck I was thinking when I decided to be a teacher, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.
 
hogs, I wished all schools today were like the one your kids currently attend...

...but.. just an update on the school kid that had his throat cut last week at a school in West Cols., Ohio. Just saw an update.

Apparently there was no fight at all, not even any words spoken between the two. They had never seen each other before. This happened during class and the two kids didn't even know one another.

As they were sitting in their seats, the attacker just got up walked over to the other boy and cut his throat. Didn't say anything to him whatsoever.

Both the boys are 14yrs old.

Just a pure shame...14yrs old!
And think about it, we've got 13-14yr olds out on the streets packing guns.

Do ya think things are changing from the way they used to be? :(

Can anyone remember violent crimes like this happening at their schools when you were attending?
 
csnsss: "...That said, this raises a larger issue - what message are we sending to our children when we assume that ALL of them are incipient lawbreakers and must be handled as such?…"

I agree! So welcome to the New World. Where at checkout counters 60-year
old citizens have to show identity to buy beer or cigarettes because 'we ID
all purchasers.' Where 'safety stops' assume everyone driving on the road is
a law-breaker one way or another until all the proper papers and certificates
are shown. Where, during hunting season I must remove all ammo from my
truck gun because F&G can stop me on a public road, inspect my weapon and
if finding it not empty, consider it prima facie evidence that I am 'hunting from
a public road' and issue me a ticket and fine.
My opinion, these school exercises are just preparation for the
Big Brother world they are entering. A world where LEO's are on one side and
us 'civilians' are considered 'possible suspects' on the other. It is indeed a
terrible way to treat any group of people and is definitely intentionally
disrespectful to us all.
 
I never did like going to the prom when I was in High School - only went to one. Not the smartest thing I've ever done, but on prom night we just got a bunch of girls and guys together, rented a couple of motel rooms and bring our own liquor and beer. Drinking age was 18 then.

Schools can try to clamp down on teen bad behavior, but by the time they are 16, 17 and 18 teens are smart enough (and stupid enough) to simply find somewhere else to drink alcohol and do what teens are going to do anyway.

Using brethalizers at school proms is unnecessary and pushes kids to "beat the system" some other way. It's not hard to spot a drunk teenager - you don't need a brethalizer. And, buy this time, they need to start making that transition into adulthood. That means some degree of trust and freedom from adults not monitoring their every move.

Otherwise, teens will secretly buy their booze, guns and other "banned items" and find ways to use them outside of the supervision of adults. I know I did. When your government made the drinking age 21 it really has some drawbacks. By the time someone is legally allowed to drink alcoholic beverages, they don't have their parents around to teach them how to drink responsibly. Used to be that a father could share a beer with his 16 or 17 year old son and this was no big deal. Now, the child would probably be hauled away for being abused and the father jailed for enabling under-aged drinking. Is this really the society you want to live in?
 
Personally, I abhore the erosion of our rights, beginning with the end of the Civil War. (Let's not talk history, but barring the obvious results of the Civil War, what ACTUALLY happened? More consolidation of power by the federal government, by taking power away from the states... and by extension, the individual.) That said, looking at the "sue-happiness" of parents/student versus teachers/school administrators, what other choice did they have?

I don't like; I don't condone it. But, I UNDERSTAND it. I see why the school resorts to this kind of stuff. Rather than single out the troublemakers and not allow them to attend ("I was discriminated...") they are forced to take *ahem* safety measures at the event. The biggest problem is the "Lord of the Flies" effect with today's kids. Too many parents aren't involved in their kids, relying on the school to instill manners, tact, and ethics.

I learned those at home. I APPLIED them in school- I didn't cheat, I tutored others when I was able, and tried to ADD to the lives of my fellow students. I wasn't perfect, though, I did my share of dumb stuff: fighting, racing at the old "Test Track," and the like. But I would've never gone to an event (especially one where I would have to drive home) drinking.
 
Given the situation in today's society where more and more women are having children and raising fatherless animals, schools really need to go back the the basics: teach children to read, write, do math, science, history and some form of basic business/economics.

Simply eliminate things like: prom, basketball, football, baseball, all other sports, all clubs, anything other than the very basic reason we have schools.

Those parents and students who are interested in sports, social activities, dances, clubs, religious activities, additional learning, or whatever, can do this privately. And, pay for it privately - where it is a privilege to participate. For those "students" who can't even control themselves to sit through the basic courses, put them in trade school, or require that they work as "apprentices" on farms, factories, etc.

When we reach the point as a society where we need to give kids brethalizers for "liability reasons" before they can go to a dance, something is seriously screwed up. Its time to make mothers and fathers responsible for their kids activities and learning. Strip all of this stuff away from public schools!!:mad:
 
Thank you, Skans. Reading your post clarified my thoughts on the issue. How can we expect our children and teens to have any "personal responsibility" if we take no responsibility for them in their formative years? By passing on the education/morals/ethics of our kids to the school (state) aren't we "training" them to rely on the state for their ideals, protection, and goals? Isn't THAT criminal? What ever happened to "Self-Reliance," or are the ideals of Thoreau gone from America?
 
As someone who taught both first and third graders, I will say this - the issues you are seeing are not endemic to only middle and high school; it seems to especially reside in those who are members of "The Welfare State" who will gladly relinquish any responsibility and costs to someone else for their children, as long as that check comes in.

When they learn at a very early age that they can abscond with being responsible, it just escalates to the levels now prevalent in the upper grades.

I also taught an alternative class - mine was Elementary - had 2-5th graders - some were there for attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon - nice for an 8 year old kid - what parents were in the picture are the kind that should have been subjected to a retroactive abortion on themselves.

Unfortunately, there is no clear answer as the school district has to CYA in today's society.

Maybe some remember the girl in TX who wanted to play on the boys' football team - her parents sued to make it happen. First game she got hurt, her parents sued for allowing that to happen

People want BIG government to take their responsibilities away, but then want to sue when it happens.

Just announce their will be a breathalyzer test before going in, those who won't pass won't enter - most likely the best thing that could happen - alcohol and teen testosterone do not mix well
 
This is my final answer to you. Then that student will be prevented from leaving the best I can. I am not going to physically restrain them, but at this point the police would have been contacted and on the way.

You asking this question tells me you do not understand what is required, by law, of school personnel when it comes to situations like this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top