Breathalyzer test required for Homecoming Dance

Its a multistate forum, laws are different by jurisidiction. Further, just because its a law doesn't make it constitutional.

Again, what is the purpose of you8r attempt to restrain them? Attempting to restrain someone from leaving is a crime here. If you physically touch them thats battery and they can defend themselves.

Morally, the thought some teacher is going to try to give a breathalyzer test to one of my kids would draw a response far beyond a lawsuit. You can deny them entry but attempting to force a breathalyzer is a completely different animal.

Now don't mistake that I have something against teachers. We're actually on the same side here. I don't think teachers should have to deal with that sort of thing. They aren't trained to do it, they aren't paid to do it, and I don't think any signed up to do that.
 
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Again, what is the purpose of you8r attempt to restrain them? Attempting to restrain someone from leaving is a crime here. If you physically touch them thats battery and they can defend themselves.

Where did I say I was going to physically restrain them? I said I wasn't going to do that. I would do what I could short of physical restraint to keep a suspected drunk kid out of a car. If I could get a friend to take them home, great.

I also said if it was at my disposal, I would use one on a student I thought was drunk. If they came in staggering, slurring words, or exhibiting indicating behavior, then and only then would I use a breathalyzer if I had one. To just randomly check students or check all students regardless is just wrong.

I will say this. If a kid shows up for school function drunk, are allowed to drive home, and get into an accident, the school and the people responsible are legally liable. I hate to break this too you, but so are employers if an employee showed up and did the same thing. I am sure if it was your child that it happened too, you would be screaming for someones head to roll.
 
Yes, I was speaking of a current school. This same school still deals out "swats" for many transgressions too.

A thing of the past in the State of Ohio's school system's. At least all of them I know of.

Reason:

Today, its been deemed by someone that that form of punishment also infringes on the basic rights of individuals and cross's the line of what schools are alllowed to do.

The system has become gutless and braindead

...and so have a big majority of parents raising kids today.

Todays society is set up for a family having a two household income. There's no longer a parent at home when kids get out of school. Both parents are at work and kids are at the babysitters or in many cases are at home by themselves till mom/dad get home.

Couple that with the fact that what mehavey pointed out of sooo many single-parent homes.....one has to wonder, who's teaching kids today how to act period.

For someone to think the ratio of kids today is not greater when compared to years ago thta children, don't have the respect , don't value the life or the basic rights of others and will do things which the majority of kids years ago would not even think of doing ...well, are just not involved enough in whats happening in alot of todays homes and schools.

The same 'sue happy' parents that want to sue the school when something bad happens to their child while at school are usually the same parents that for whatever reason(working jobs that don't let them spend enough time with their kids or just plain don't care enough to spend time with them), want the schools to teach their kids what the parents should be teaching them at home.
But on the other hand, wants to demand to the school how to teach the kids these basic manors(which is not the schools job) and the school better not step on the childs basic rights...or I'm gonna sue.

Another mind boggling story in Cols., Ohio:

A Game called 'Knockout'.

Groups of kids(consisting in numbers of 10-15) ages 13-18 would get together after school and roam the inner city parks looking for usually mid to older aged people.

The object of the game was for all the kids to walk up to this person and one designated kid would punch them, trying to knock them out with one shot.

A group of these kids were arrested and during the court proceedings, the local news was down at the courthouse interviewing some of the parents of the kids arrested. When the question was asked of them as to how they felt of their child being arrested, the replies were astounding. Two or three mothers standing there together felt the charges filed on their sons were way to harsh and the one spoke up and said, "Its just a game they were playing". Which that response was amen'ed by the others.
Wonder why these kids are doing what they're doing?:rolleyes:

These are the same kids that may be going to school sitting next to a good student that arbitrarily decides to get up, walk over to the good student and cut his/her throat in the middle of class such as happened in Cols. last week.

Do we sit back, stay on the defensive side and wait for something bad to happen to that good kid, maybe at the hands of a bad kid?
Then react.

Do we try to go on the offensive and apply new rules when we see a pattern of something occurring that we want to head off?
Which was the reason of me asking in an earlier post, "had this school had previous issues with alcohol related incidents."

Taking all this into consideration and not forgetting these good kids that have the RIGHT to go to school safely without harm from a bad kid or without harm from a kid not known to be a bad kid but does something stupid one night at a dance by drinking, taking some pills,smoking a joint,etc., then leaving the dance with two or three others kids in his/her car and they don't make it home ...

... Just where do we draw the line?
 
I don't see what any of that has to do with a breathalyzer.

I don't have a problem with not allowing kids into a dance for any reason unless it violates civil rights issues (ie - 1964 Civil Rights legislation).

I don't have a problem throwing kids out of the dance for any reason unless it violates civil rights issues.

I don't have a problem disciplinging the little demons for actions they take in the dance.

Yet, none of that, none of that, has anything to do with a breathalyzer.
 
Yet none of that, none of that, has anything to do with a breathalyzer

Much of what I posted does not have to do with the school breathalyzer but may bear on the fact as to why a breathalyzer was deemed necessary by the school officials at Hitthespots school.

Some had also made remarks of "Whats next metal detectors, pregnancy test, drug screening etc".


Again, did anyone go to the school to ask the reason for the breathalyzer?

Were there prior dances where some of the angels showed up drunk or had been drinking? Accidents coming/leaving prior school functions? Someone even busted during school hrs in the parking lot drinking?

I also asked if prior notice was possibly sent home with the kids. The reason I asked that question was that very well could have been an explanation as to 'why' in the notice.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, some have condemned this school for doing this and we don't know why they did it in the first place. Maybe to some, there isn't any reason the school could do this that is acceptable.

But as a parent, I'd sure want to know a couple why's...

I'd want to know if the school did in fact send prior notification home with my child to give to me.

If they did, I'd want to know from my child, why he/she didn't get it to me.

If they didn't, I'd want to know why they didn't.

If there were past incidents, I'd want to know how many incidents and the kids involved in the past incidents so I could keep an eye on who my kid was loafing with.

I'm sure I can think of a few more 'why's' but I know I'd have to find out a few things before I started condemning the schools decision to do what they did.

If after all my 'why's' were answered and in fact the school did this due to prior incidents but I still felt the school didn't act appropriately, I'd have to ask myself if I was willing to devote my time in the future to insure the breathalyzer wasn't needed at extra-curricular school functions. I.E. volunteer chaperoning at future school dances, working the gate at sports events etc.
 
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Again, did anyone go to the school to ask the reason for the breathalyzer?
***Sorry I’m not putting in the commitment to drive more than a thousand miles. You have me there. :D

Were there prior dances where some of the angels showed up drunk or had been drinking? Accidents coming/leaving prior school functions? Someone even busted during school hrs in the parking lot drinking?
***So? Kick them off property. You don’t need a breathalyzer to do that.

I also asked if prior notice was possibly sent home with the kids. The reason I asked that question was that very well could have been an explanation as to 'why' in the notice.
***Maybe indeed. Still doesn’t help. As above, kick them off the property or don’t allow them in, in the first place.

Maybe to some, there isn't any reason the school could do this that is acceptable.
***As a parent I say…BINGO!
 
shortwave, the counter to your arguments (all of them) is the same counter we all use when talking about gun control:

Nail the offenders when they commit the crime. Make examples of them. Make it predictably painful each and every time.

Do NOT regulate/nanny-state/BigBrother everybody, in hopes of prevention.

Or is it really different, when it's "for the children?"
 
Its even easier in this circumstance. The child has no rights to go to a dance. Ejection or denial of entrance are easier than a normal school situation.

If it gets to be a pain for the school just don't have the events. :eek:
 
shortwave, the counter to your arguments (all of them) is the same counter we all use when talking about gun control:

Nail the offenders when they commit the crime. Make examples of them. Make it predictably painful each and every time.

Do NOT regulate/nanny-state/BigBrother everybody, in hopes of prevention.

Or is it really different, when it's "for the children?"

I'm just thinking the school/school district is making it harder than it needs to be, and going from easy maintenance of order to potential violations of rights. Additional questions:
*What happens if drugged out Johnny scores a Bingo on the test? Are the police called? If not why not? Is there now some sort of permanent record? What if its a false positive? Now there could be a lawsuit.

*Do you want teachers having to administer breathalyzer tests? I don't think they received a BA/MA to give out Breath tests. It would definitely make me rethink my career path. If its the nurse, do you want to be the nurse (potentially volunteer nurse) involved in that?
 
Or is it really different, when its "for the children?"

You may have said that in a sarcastic way, but I'll say this, since we are dealing with children that are usually more easily influenced by their peers than adults and many times don't make the right 'spur of the moment' choice's...should we be dealing with them differently?

***As a parent I say...BINGO!

Okay, so you wouldn't hold the school accountable if GOD forbid your child left an after school function with another child which was drinking and got in a wreck?

Also, your thoughts on metal detectors in schools along with locker searchs?
 
Okay, so you wouldn't hold the school accountable if GOD forbid your child left an after school function with another child which was drinking and got in a wreck?
***As the OP concerned a breathalyzer BEFORE entry not after, this doesn’t help your case.

Also, your thoughts on metal detectors in schools along with locker searchs?
***Lockers are generally permitted by case law. Metal detectors are generally permitted by caselaw. Children are forced to attend school. They are not forced to go to the dance. Metal detectors are also typically manned by security personnel no?
 
If it gets to be a pain for the school just don't have the events.

Well...thats my thoughts also but aren't you punishing the good kids by doing that also.

Guess that would be better than stepping on peoples rights.

Here's the thing, we have rules here on TFL for reasons that have been proven to justify those rules. TFL is a voluntary site inwhich we ask to become a member in agreeance that we follow said rules.

School dances are no difference as they aren't mandatory to attend and I'm sure the schools would rather not feel the need to even have to chaperone the kids let alone do the breathalyzer. Apparently, there was a reason for them taking that action.
 
There may be a reason, but I think we're arguing not over the reason by the action taken.

***If the school is worried about liability I don't think a breathalyzer is going to cut it for the reason cited (before vs. after).

***If the school is worried about a fracas, then the need for a breathalyzer is not there. Keep the bad seeds out in the first place.

***A breathalyzer requires some ability to administer. The school staff are not trained (nor should they be) for such and doing so would be deleterious to retaining good teachers.

***A breathalyzer raised this to the level of a legal search akin to a police search. The legality of police performing such are problematic, much less teachers.

Ok, Zincwarrior, can you help out at the dance?
Free food? I'm in.
Ok we need you to help administer breathalyzer tests.
Er, sure...immediately starts looking for a job somewhere else.
 
Metal detectors are also typically manned by security personnel no?

I would say yes to the above.

Also, every one of our high school extra-curricular events, our Truant Officer attended. Which was an LEO. Most of our city schools have truant officers as well but I couldn't say if they still show up for events. If they do, they are more than capable of administering at the very least a field sobriety test.
 
Regardless, this discussion has made me think about the dance scenario more. My boy's a bander so they have their own events, but the daughter is turning 13. I already have a hard time with the concept of suffering future boyfriends to live. This only makes it worse for them. :cool:
 
This only makes it worse for them:cool:

I strongly feel your pain. Thankfully, my only daughter out of the four kids was the youngest(now 25). She had three older brothers to help look after her which made things a bit easier for yours truely.;)

She had a few episodes in high school in which big brothers took care of that I wasn't even aware of till just a few years ago.:rolleyes:

Probably best though.

Gotta run and get the grass cut.:rolleyes:

Good discussion!
 
Why are we placing our government in the position of having to administer breathalizers to our kids? This is beyond absurd. How about we take responsibility for our own kids male-female socialization instead of off-loading this on government workers?

I can understand the need to have a government run institution for the sole purpose of making sure that all American children have a chance at being educated on the fundamental skills needed to survive. But, what the heck are we doing entrusting government workers with things like organizing sporting activities, organizing dances, providing clubs for kids to belong to, teaching kids how to play music and march in formation while playing music?

Frankly, I just don't give a crud if single-parent households can't provide what the government is being required to provide their kids. Once, people begin to recognize all of the benefits that a man-woman /father-mother household provides (after you snatch away all of these absurd government substitutes for parents), our society will go back to being normal. And, our government can shrink to something that isn't a substitute for absentee parents.
 
How about we take responsibity for our own kids male-female socialization instead of off -loading this on government officials.

That would be a dream come true and I'm sure a wish from all decent parents raising their kids properly.

Fact is, seems more and 'more supposed to be' parents are not taking that responsibility seriously and the mear fact the government officials are having to take some of the steps they're taking to keep kids safe at school, proves that point.

Oneounceload said it well a few post back. More and more will gladly relinquish the responsibilty of raising their kids to anyone else as long as the checks coming in (and I'll add) as long as the parent doesn't have to spend any more time parenting than they have to. After all, taking the time to parent may interupt the tee time, happy hour or the favorite progam on TV.:eek:

IMO,till more parents start parenting, you'll see more and more things like this breathalyzer/drug testing testing, metal detecting happening.

Hmmm...Just think, after all, breathalyzer testing in high school is getting them in practice for the adult world of mandatory drug/alcohol testing for employment.:rolleyes: Again, which I did for 25yrs., don't agree with and feel it's an infringement on my rights.
But somewhere along the line, due to on the job accidents involving alcohol/drugs on the job, we're tested.
 
IMO,till more parents start parenting, you'll see more and more things like this breathalyzer/drug testing testing, metal detecting happening.

You will never see lazy parents start parenting (or stop creating babies they won't take care of) until our government eliminates all of the "Pseudo-parenting" functions it has taken on. The best thing that could happen to our nation is a budget crisis that forces government to relinquish these responsibilities back to its citizens. It wouldn't hurt some of or citizens to actually see what happens to babies of drug-addicted parents when government refuses to step in and do anything. "Social Stigma" would once again have its place in society.
 
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