Breaking a Rule, Reholstering

I never use a small of the back holster.

It's hard to hit a holster without looking when your hands are shaking.

It's hard to hit a holster that's jammed with crap without looking.

After thinking it over for a couple days, I'm starting to wish I had been taught sul rather than low ready-- I see a couple significant advantages to it, and I've been trying to think of a disadvantage other than existing habits, and I haven't thought of one yet.
 
I'm used to a cross between 'sul' and low ready in crazy situations.
I like the feel of sul..Now, what doe:confused:s s.u.l. stand for?
 
BTW, I've carried many holster types. Some I can reholster in without looking, some I don't try without removing the holster, like my Uncle Mikes. I'm confortable with all I use.
The Uncle Mike's is done by pulling the holster without looking and if the area is clear, I reholster without looking and put holstered firearm by in place without looking. Hand stays with the weapon at all times until PD clears the scene. No disadvantage there.
 
I think you are missing the point. It is not so much to "see" the holster as it is to be very deliberate re holstering.
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I was just quoting the folks that have said they need to "see" the gun going into the holster. I play gun games and always deliberately holster, upon command to do so, don't remember the last time I looked.
 
1. Fast up / slow down
2. There is NO tactical reason to put the gun back quickly
3. If you just got into a gunfight ALL fine motor skills are gone
4. You dont reholster if your unsure of the situation - period
5. A glance down while finding the holster is not going to give anyone a huge edge on either side
6. This gotta keep the eyes scanning while reholstering is a product of someone who has never been in a firefight - its a BS talking point on a lot of instructors course notes
7. the situation that where you enconter a deadly threat then WAMMO a second deadly threat jumps out just while you are reholstering has probably never occured.
9. Why wouldnt you want to remove yourself from exposure if your not sure of the scene??? if you can LEAVE and be available to the reponders.
 
1. Fast up / slow down
2. There is NO tactical reason to put the gun back quickly
3. If you just got into a gunfight ALL fine motor skills are gone
4. You dont reholster if your unsure of the situation - period
5. A glance down while finding the holster is not going to give anyone a huge edge on either side
6. This gotta keep the eyes scanning while reholstering is a product of someone who has never been in a firefight - its a BS talking point on a lot of instructors course notes
7. the situation that where you enconter a deadly threat then WAMMO a second deadly threat jumps out just while you are reholstering has probably never occured.
9. Why wouldnt you want to remove yourself from exposure if your not sure of the scene??? if you can LEAVE and be available to the reponders.
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Aha, we have a winner, only 5 posts on the forum and he comes up with the best post in the thread. Of course I have to say that because I agree with him, your mileage may differ.
 
If you carry iwb you kind of need to look while reholstering. Your shirt could get pushed into the holster with the gun and that could be bad. If you didnt identify a secondary threat before reholstering, you werent going to see it anyway. I spend maybe one second glancing at my holster while reholstering.
 
sfmedic,,,,Thanks! For Walking Point. Safe Journey!

Since this discussion also has included some great posts on clearing an area and a 360 degree scan or clearing for danger,,,discussion about low ready and Sul,,,what is everyones thoughts on doing the 360 scan from a modified high ready your elbows tucked into your chest, the handgun pointed almost straight up or straight up about six to eight inches in front of your face and the muzzle just below eye level not blocking your field of view, does not sweep any innocents, and with a quick snap of the wrist downward the gun comes on target.

Thoughts?
 
PH/CIB said:
...what is everyones thoughts on doing the 360 scan from a modified high ready your elbows tucked into your chest, the handgun pointed almost straight up or straight up about six to eight inches in front of your face and the muzzle just below eye level not blocking your field of view,...
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Why?

  1. I don't like the idea of the muzzle of my gun that close to my face.

  2. Held as described the gun is still blocking parts of my field of view that I'd rather not have blocked.

  3. What advantage is there over low-ready or Sul (both of which I'm well practiced in).
 
I was just quoting the folks that have said they need to "see" the gun going into the holster. I play gun games and always deliberately holster, upon command to do so, don't remember the last time I looked.
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I play the same games. Doesn't happen often, but I have seen people holster, walk ten feet adjust their shirt and the gun falls out. Shirt was caught in the holster. And this is in a regular old OWB hip holster, without concealment. Not IWB, and not concealed.
 
"""Why?

I don't like the idea of the muzzle of my gun that close to my face.


Held as described the gun is still blocking parts of my field of view that I'd rather not have blocked.


What advantage is there over low-ready or Sul (both of which I'm well practiced in"""

Excellent points Frank,,,I really do not mind the muzzle being that close to my face,,,however you are correct looking almost straight downward it does block some field of view as does low ready while Sul does not, advantages maybe not any,,,I find snapping my wrist downwards from high ready a sliver faster than extending my arms from Sul or bringing the gun up from low ready....Looking at it from an attack from the side the elbows are easier to use from low ready or high ready than from Sul,,,although the weak hand and elbow and arm from any of those positions can be used by disengaging the weak hand from the gun, from behind if grabbed I see a disadvantage to Sul if the attacker clasps his arms around you and his hands on the gun, probably easier to disengage from low ready by pushing your arms downward or from high ready by pushing your arms up but I think low ready wins in this one as the attackers hands could now jam your gun into your face from high ready while keeping it pinned on your chest from Sul....I have not done any force on force or martial arts training to verify this however....
 
Low ready is what I was taught and am used to. The only time my gun comes anywhere close to my face is doing a combat draw in close quarters. In that case I would most likely be shooting with my elbows tight and my gun in two hands just in front of my solar plexus. I don't like doing that, especially when I am shooting 125 gr mag loads from my .357. It's hard on a 3 yard target and I would have to think it would be hard on a boogerman but my oh my do I hate that muzzle blast. I was out earlier this afternoon doing that very drill only on 15 yard targets. It's a lot more fun when I use 38 spcl ammo.
 
I would probably try to use sul, forget all about everything, and revert to low ready...

Old Grump, is your sig supposed to say "...mean to govern well..."?
 
I just wanted to pay tribute to the guys and gals who teach firearms classes, civilian, law enforcement and military, and should have done it in my original post.

They work with some of the most dangerous animals on the face of the earth,,,men and women,,,utilizing some of the most dangerous weapons ever invented,,,firearms,,,and have to put up with guys like me who question everything!

They teach firearm safety,,,God Bless them for that!!! And how to protect yourself and loved ones with a firearm,,,God Bless them for that also!!!

Those Men and Women who Teach have my Complete Appreciation and Respect.
 
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what is everyones thoughts on doing the 360 scan from a modified high ready your elbows tucked into your chest, the handgun pointed almost straight up or straight up about six to eight inches in front of your face and the muzzle just below eye level not blocking your field of view, does not sweep any innocents, and with a quick snap of the wrist downward the gun comes on target.
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I am not really into the "new cool"... There is a reason why you dont see soldiers performing any of these techniques.

As a plain ole joe who has been carrying since the 70's , I will always opt for holding a AR by the magwell and getting small behind the rifle as I drive it forward. I will always use the miami vice "Crocket" low ready. I will reholster when I am sure that I am done and the whole time, my head on a swivel.
 
what is everyones thoughts on doing the 360 scan from a modified high ready your elbows tucked into your chest, the handgun pointed almost straight up or straight up about six to eight inches in front of your face and the muzzle just below eye level not blocking your field of view, does not sweep any innocents, and with a quick snap of the wrist downward the gun comes on target.
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Sounds like what they used to call the "Full Sabrina" position when I was last at Gunsite about 10 years ago. Named after the Charlie's Angels show, where it was commonly used to get the actresse's face and the pistol into a closeup shot.

They were pretty disparaging about it.

I was looking for a picture, here's an old thread about it:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108205

Good article on training here, with their comments on the "Sabrina" positions:

http://www.thegunzone.com/training.html

Another secondary source is… you guessed it… TV and movies. Yes, we run into loads of people whose shooting style mimics certain characters on the screen. (Consider the "Half-Sabrina" and "Full Sabrina" positions, gleaned from the Charlie's Angels show of a generation past!)
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The object of Low Ready (or any of the depressed carry positions) is just what it says- to provide a relatively safe muzzle orientation while keeping the pistol in hand. My suggestion would be that if you have Low Ready burned into your subconscious, don't screw it up by trying to over-write the hard drive for every fad that comes along.
 
The object of Low Ready (or any of the depressed carry positions) is just what it says- to provide a relatively safe muzzle orientation while keeping the pistol in hand. My suggestion would be that if you have Low Ready burned into your subconscious, don't screw it up by trying to over-write the hard drive for every fad that comes along.
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Excellent post! I have been trained in low ready for over 30 years. It is kind of like the "new" handcuffing method they wanted to teach me once at "advanced" training.
 
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