My wife doesn't know her .243 is not. Supposed to break stuff. I load 100 grain Hornady Interlocks and she has on more than one occasion broken one or both shoulders. Shots usually within 100 yards and maybe recovered one bullet in 15 years. I think part of it is that I load them to a low recoil, instead of maxing out the velocity, velocity is tough on normal bullets, and required for the Mono metal types such as the GMX or TSX .
bone breaking bullets for .243 Winchester
- Thread starter kcub
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FrankenMauser
New member
I've been trying to figure out how to reply to this since yesterday, to toss my hat in for the Nosler Partition (I prefer 85 and 95 gr, not the 100s), even though the Barnes TSX (or derivatives) may be a better option.
...Because I just don't consider .243 Win to be a 'bone breaker'.
Velocity is too high. It's more of a 'bone exploder'. And, in the context of avoiding meat loss and collateral damage, I've never had a good outcome with any cartridge that tends to result in high velocity bone fragments.
If you use .243 Win on game, it is inevitable that you'll hit bone. But, it's something that I definitely try to avoid, because the result is pretty nasty.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not 'hating' on any 6mm cartridge, especially .243 Win. I built a '.243' specifically for pronghorn antelope (consider it a whitetail, if unfamiliar), and recently built a 6x45mm for varmints and proghorn.
It's just that high velocity does not play well with minimizing meat damage.
You have to be careful with your shots while understanding that hitting bone may mean major damage that isn't necessarily debilitating for the animal.
Even broken bones don't mean much sometimes. I once watched an antelope with a broken hip, no rear feet (blow off between knee and ankle), and two broken shoulders run almost a full mile before the hunter managed to sling enough lead to get a kill shot.
(And, now that I think about it, that hunter was using the 150 gr Core-Lokts mentioned below...)
I've seen multiple antelope and two elk smacked with the 150 gr and 165 gr Core-Lokts, and the outcome was pretty ugly. Even on an animal as 'soft' and fragile as an antelope, and at ranges from 100-400 yards, the bullets grenaded. Meat loss was massive. Bone breakage was minimal. And the animals, overall, were still highly mobile.
Bullet choice isn't always critical in larger calibers, but...
The 150 and 165 gr Core-Lokts, in particular, are something I won't touch for game animals. All Winchester Power Points fall in that category, as well.
I would use a varmint bullet in .243 Win before I used a 150 gr Core-Lokt, 165 gr Core-Lokt, or any Power Point. At least then the outcome would be more predictable.
...Because I just don't consider .243 Win to be a 'bone breaker'.
Velocity is too high. It's more of a 'bone exploder'. And, in the context of avoiding meat loss and collateral damage, I've never had a good outcome with any cartridge that tends to result in high velocity bone fragments.
If you use .243 Win on game, it is inevitable that you'll hit bone. But, it's something that I definitely try to avoid, because the result is pretty nasty.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not 'hating' on any 6mm cartridge, especially .243 Win. I built a '.243' specifically for pronghorn antelope (consider it a whitetail, if unfamiliar), and recently built a 6x45mm for varmints and proghorn.
It's just that high velocity does not play well with minimizing meat damage.
You have to be careful with your shots while understanding that hitting bone may mean major damage that isn't necessarily debilitating for the animal.
Even broken bones don't mean much sometimes. I once watched an antelope with a broken hip, no rear feet (blow off between knee and ankle), and two broken shoulders run almost a full mile before the hunter managed to sling enough lead to get a kill shot.
(And, now that I think about it, that hunter was using the 150 gr Core-Lokts mentioned below...)
I'd have to disagree with both points.
I've seen multiple antelope and two elk smacked with the 150 gr and 165 gr Core-Lokts, and the outcome was pretty ugly. Even on an animal as 'soft' and fragile as an antelope, and at ranges from 100-400 yards, the bullets grenaded. Meat loss was massive. Bone breakage was minimal. And the animals, overall, were still highly mobile.
Bullet choice isn't always critical in larger calibers, but...
The 150 and 165 gr Core-Lokts, in particular, are something I won't touch for game animals. All Winchester Power Points fall in that category, as well.
I would use a varmint bullet in .243 Win before I used a 150 gr Core-Lokt, 165 gr Core-Lokt, or any Power Point. At least then the outcome would be more predictable.
I've driven many 180gr PowerPoints from a 30-06 through some big(300-400lb) hogs and always got complete penetration. 243,270,7mm08 30-06 all deliver similar velocities with "deer" type bullets. Any premium 6mm bullet is going to give you enough penetration, I also find it hard to believe a deer or antelope running very far with 2 broken shoulders.
I find that hard to believe also, Guv; based on my personal experiences. Maybe a 150 is too light for elk, I cannot say. I haven't shot a pronghorn but have shot a lot of deer and African antelope of various size up to eland. But maybe a pronghorn is the über antelope. I have shot a sprinkbok which seems pretty similar with a 300 Win mag and 150 grain bullet but it may have been defective because he died right there just like every other deer I ever shot with a 150 grain 30 caliber bullet.
Thank you, good to know. Exactly the kind of 1st hand knowledge about the better 243 bullets I was looking for.
Thank you, good to know. Exactly the kind of 1st hand knowledge about the better 243 bullets I was looking for.
While I agree that you don't need to break bone on white tails, simply shoot them through the lungs. HOWEVER, lung shots are generally what my wife strives for, but life isn't perfect, sometimes bullets don't quite go where you intend or you don't get that clear broadside shot. It's nice to know that the bullet/load combo will punch through and do the job. It's nice to know when I hear her shoot that I not likely to be on a long track because the bullet didn't make it through the shoulder intact.
FrankenMauser
New member
Have you seen many antelope taken?
My family used to average 28 tags filled per year (up to 5 tags per person, with 5-8 hunters). And, even after the limits were reduced to 2 tags per person, we usually still bagged 8-12 animals per year. I've seen more antelope tags filled than most people will see over the course of their entire lives. And, since some of the hunters are more of the "shoot at them"-type than "shoot for a kill"-type, unfortunately, that means that I've seen a fair number of bad shots, slow deaths, and the use of ammunition that turned out to perform sub-par.
Overall, I consider antelope to be an easy kill. Their heart and lungs are huge in comparison to other big game, and they're fairly 'soft' targets. But, if you don't hit one right (through bad luck or ineptitude), they will put up one helluva fight ... at up to 55 mph.
They're like elk. They refuse to acknowledge that they're supposed to be gentlemanly and lay down to die on the battlefield like a good little deer. Rather, they will keep fighting and fighting until their brains cease to get enough oxygen.
Broken bones mean almost nothing. Even if an animal can do 45-55 mph in prime condition and you wound it severely... it doesn't matter much if it can still manage to outrun you while injured.
If they can make the limb do anything that results in useful movement, then they keep doing it until they're: A) dead, B) paralyzed, or C) exhausted enough that they collapse.
In 2008, I watched an antelope blow brain matter out the side of her face with every breath, while still making 15-20 mph with an exploded left femur and no pelvis or right ball socket to speak of. And she took another three(!) shots to the head to kill.
In 2009, I watched an antelope that took an explosive bullet to the left hip run at 45+ mph for 1/4 mile (wrong bullet + bad shot), before he realized that his leg wasn't working. And, even after being hit twice more, he took off at 25+ mph with broken shoulders. Once he was finally down for the count, he still required a coup de grâce to the base of the skull.
In 2010 I watched an antelope cover half a mile at 15+ mph with a broken shoulder and no rear feet (another one one with both hooves blown off between the knees and ankles). She climbed ditch banks, zigged and zagged through sagebrush, jumped over obstacles, and sprinted down an old jeep trail. She didn't stop until a well-placed and opportune shot with a .358" 200 gr bullet blew a hole through her chest the size of Arkansas.
I could go on for days with similar stores. But there's no point. This isn't the right place for that, and it's a waste of my time if you already think I'm a liar.
Those animals simply refused to admit that it was their time to die. It happens in every species, but I've never seen a will to live, or simply to fight, as strong as that in so many elk and antelope.
They aren't domestic like whitetails, or stupid like Mulies. They're wild - and crazy.
Exactly. And that may happen the farther out a shot gets. You need to have the worst case scenario taken care of and everything else is gravy.
I don't know what to say about pronghorns; maybe it was a good thing my 30-06 got stolen in Botswana and I had to use the guide's 300 Winchester magnum on that springbok, it was a long shot. I don't know if I'll be able to sleep thinking about vengeful crazy pronghorns what with their brains spilling out and all that. Maybe I do need a 50 BMG after all.
First Frankenmauser says this:
"I would use a varmint bullet in .243 Win before I used a 150 gr Core-Lokt, 165 gr Core-Lokt, or any Power Point. At least then the outcome would be more predictable."
Then he contradicts with this:
"In 2009, I watched an antelope that took an explosive bullet to the left hip run at 45+ mph for 1/4 mile (wrong bullet + bad shot)"
Yep it sounds like one of those ultra predictable varmit bullets that you were talking about favoring for deer over the core lokts. Very predictable results, barely any penetration and bullet exploding on contact destroying lots of meat and making a crater in the side of the animal, but doing very little lethal damage.
So yes I would have to agree with your wrong bullet + bad shot theory, because when you describe it as an "explosive bullet", that is exactly what those varmit bullets you were talking about favoring for deer earlier do. Varmit bullets are explosive bullets, and unless going for a head or a neck shot should be avoided for deer.
"I would use a varmint bullet in .243 Win before I used a 150 gr Core-Lokt, 165 gr Core-Lokt, or any Power Point. At least then the outcome would be more predictable."
Then he contradicts with this:
"In 2009, I watched an antelope that took an explosive bullet to the left hip run at 45+ mph for 1/4 mile (wrong bullet + bad shot)"
Yep it sounds like one of those ultra predictable varmit bullets that you were talking about favoring for deer over the core lokts. Very predictable results, barely any penetration and bullet exploding on contact destroying lots of meat and making a crater in the side of the animal, but doing very little lethal damage.
So yes I would have to agree with your wrong bullet + bad shot theory, because when you describe it as an "explosive bullet", that is exactly what those varmit bullets you were talking about favoring for deer earlier do. Varmit bullets are explosive bullets, and unless going for a head or a neck shot should be avoided for deer.
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2 Broken shoulders do matter, a lot! Especially when the 2 back legs have already been shoot off at the knees, are you kidding me! Do they have wings also? Sounds like the bullets and cartridges used were the last problem with these poor wounded animals. Some people need to learn how and when to shoot and hunt, a little respect for the game might go along way!
FrankenMauser
New member
No contradiction.
The first is a statement intended to convey my distrust of the listed bullets.
The second was a condensed anecdote, relating to the ridiculous will to fight and 'super-natural' ability that some animals show.
One is opinion.
One is reality.
And both meet with the point that I was trying to make with the first statement: That the experiences I've had with those bullets were so bad that I would rather choose the varmint bullet to begin with; rather than think I'm using a decent bullet that, in reality, is just as explosive, destructive, and ineffective.
I see your point Frankenmauser and I apologise for the hasty assumption. It's just that I know varmit bullets are WAY to lightly constructed for clean ethical dispatching of deer. But I see that you weren't just necassarily advocating the use of varmit bullets for deer. But varmit bullets and fmj's would be my very last choice for deer, I will say that for sure.
Jack O'Conner
New member
Nothing wrong with the FEDERAL Fusion bullet.
Jack
Jack
reynolds357
New member
Barnes X, or copies of the Barnes X by other manufacturers.
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bamaranger
New member
basher
I used to be a .243 basher, 'till I shot some deer with one (now two), and no longer. My Dad boughta Savage 110 so chambered in the later years of his life, and it came to me after he passed. Tweaked it a a bit, hunted it that same year as a connection to Dad. Shot the frist deer with 100 gr Rem factory ammo, PSP that came with the rifle. Broke the near shoulder, recovered slug under the hide on the off side. DRT. That 100 gr factory slug is the only .243 ever recovered. A couple of others shot with the same ammo were lung shots and pass throughs. They ran, but not far.
We started shooting 100 gr Partions once the factory ammo was gone. Guess bamaboy and I have taken about a dozen with .243 now. (him mostly). We have not recovered a Partition, including several that were shoulder shots, and a neck spine shot.
WE do not get really high velocity with the 100's. Dad's Savage has a lopped barrel (long story, you had to know my Dad) and the old Mossberg 800M has a 20" Mannlicher style. Both run about 2850 (+) without checking my notes. A longer tube, 22" plus, would help, but they seem to kill deer plenty dead as is.
Although the Mossberg seems to have an affinity for lighter slugs, we will keep shooting the 100's, as we have plenty on hand, and have no complaints.
I used to be a .243 basher, 'till I shot some deer with one (now two), and no longer. My Dad boughta Savage 110 so chambered in the later years of his life, and it came to me after he passed. Tweaked it a a bit, hunted it that same year as a connection to Dad. Shot the frist deer with 100 gr Rem factory ammo, PSP that came with the rifle. Broke the near shoulder, recovered slug under the hide on the off side. DRT. That 100 gr factory slug is the only .243 ever recovered. A couple of others shot with the same ammo were lung shots and pass throughs. They ran, but not far.
We started shooting 100 gr Partions once the factory ammo was gone. Guess bamaboy and I have taken about a dozen with .243 now. (him mostly). We have not recovered a Partition, including several that were shoulder shots, and a neck spine shot.
WE do not get really high velocity with the 100's. Dad's Savage has a lopped barrel (long story, you had to know my Dad) and the old Mossberg 800M has a 20" Mannlicher style. Both run about 2850 (+) without checking my notes. A longer tube, 22" plus, would help, but they seem to kill deer plenty dead as is.
Although the Mossberg seems to have an affinity for lighter slugs, we will keep shooting the 100's, as we have plenty on hand, and have no complaints.
Gunplummer
New member
I can not agree more with the above post. If you don't trust the .243 rifle you own, sell it and buy a .358 Winchester. I rarely ever support going to a larger gun to hunt deer, but it seems the only answer here. The multiple calibers available came into being because people hunt in different ways and areas. The farthest I ever had a lung shot deer go was with a 30-30, and I have used a whole lot of different calibers on deer. Strange things happen occasionally when shooting deer, but one instance is not the norm. If you have no confidence in the gun you use, sell it. When I was a kid, a friend was building a chevy 265 and putting quite a bit of money in it. After he was driving it, I asked how it ran. He said "Like a 283". (That was a joke, for you non motor heads) If you think you HAVE to soup up your bullets, move up to a .260 or .308 caliber gun.