Cheapshooter
New member
My very first "all my own" shotgun was a Stevens Model 59 bolt action chambered in 410 bore. Long gone from my possession, I recently found another to replace it.
Bolt-action shotguns?
- Thread starter Pond James Pond
- Start date
bolt guns
I have two: a Mossberg 185 20 gauge and a Mossberg slug gun, the 695 (possibly the ugliest shotgun ever made).
The 185 is quite light, nice to carry. I load one shell in the chamber and a second in the magazine....with a little practice, I can cycle the second shot about as quick as a pump gun.
Despite its looks, the 695 is a very accurate shooter, using a variation of Hubel's "shotgun from hell" loads it prints very nice 100 yard groups.
Pete
PS - could not find a 100 yard picture but this one is five shots at 50 yards during load development. The first shot is the high hole. For the next four shots, I held on that hole. Those four are the larger hole below. It may look like two but there are four shots through that hole.
I have two: a Mossberg 185 20 gauge and a Mossberg slug gun, the 695 (possibly the ugliest shotgun ever made).
The 185 is quite light, nice to carry. I load one shell in the chamber and a second in the magazine....with a little practice, I can cycle the second shot about as quick as a pump gun.
Despite its looks, the 695 is a very accurate shooter, using a variation of Hubel's "shotgun from hell" loads it prints very nice 100 yard groups.
Pete
PS - could not find a 100 yard picture but this one is five shots at 50 yards during load development. The first shot is the high hole. For the next four shots, I held on that hole. Those four are the larger hole below. It may look like two but there are four shots through that hole.
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Three shots (12 & 16 ga), 4 or 5 (.410) faster than a single shot break action gun.
Often not quite as well balanced and handling as a good double barrel or single shot, but not something that cannot be overcome.
Not as efficient as a pump, or semi.
James K gives a pretty good summary, but I would disagree with this, slightly..
The law does not require all guns to have serial numbers. It requires all guns made after 68 to have serial numbers. Guns made before the law took effect are not required to have serial numbers, UNLESS the maker put on it, originally, and if they did, then it is required, and required to be "readable", meaning not defaced or removed. If the gun HAD a serial number at one time, and that number has been removed, the gun is now illegal to own. If it NEVER had a serial number, you don't HAVE to put one on it, and it is legal to own.
I don't think the added expense of stamping a few numbers into a receiver to be what killed the popularity of the bolt action shotgun. I think it was more the other factors James K mentions, along with the elimination of direct to the customer mail order sales.
Often not quite as well balanced and handling as a good double barrel or single shot, but not something that cannot be overcome.
Not as efficient as a pump, or semi.
James K gives a pretty good summary, but I would disagree with this, slightly..
The law does not require all guns to have serial numbers. It requires all guns made after 68 to have serial numbers. Guns made before the law took effect are not required to have serial numbers, UNLESS the maker put on it, originally, and if they did, then it is required, and required to be "readable", meaning not defaced or removed. If the gun HAD a serial number at one time, and that number has been removed, the gun is now illegal to own. If it NEVER had a serial number, you don't HAVE to put one on it, and it is legal to own.
I don't think the added expense of stamping a few numbers into a receiver to be what killed the popularity of the bolt action shotgun. I think it was more the other factors James K mentions, along with the elimination of direct to the customer mail order sales.
Nope
Oh, ye of little faith. Properly used a bolt gun can be cycled very rapidly. You have probably seen videos of the "Mad minute" of Enfield fame. High power match rifle shooters joke about not using semiautos because they don't want to wait for the action to cycle.
Oh, ye of little faith. Properly used a bolt gun can be cycled very rapidly. You have probably seen videos of the "Mad minute" of Enfield fame. High power match rifle shooters joke about not using semiautos because they don't want to wait for the action to cycle.
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Whenever someone starts waxing nostalgic about a bolt action shotgun (not the new slug guns) I just put it down to a combination of wishful thinking and/or bad memory. The early bolt actions were a way to produce a cheap repeater. I never saw one that handled worth a hoot as a wingshooter's gun. For rabbits and/or squirrels they do okay. I feel the same about single shots (not dedicated purpose built trap guns). They were made to satisfy a need cheaply.
I had a bolt action for my first shotgun. I'm a fairly quick study and it didn't stay long.
I had a bolt action for my first shotgun. I'm a fairly quick study and it didn't stay long.
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Omaha-BeenGlockin
New member
You can still buy one:
http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/shotguns/a-bolt.html
Not cheap anymore though
http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/shotguns/a-bolt.html
Not cheap anymore though
bamaranger
New member
bolts
We went through two bolt shotguns when I was a kid, both .410's. My Dad bought a Mossberg bolt with an adjustable choke, the dang thing shot off the first season we hunted it. He replaced the Mossberg with a Savage bolt, that was about the cheapest shotgun I have ever seen. Sharp edges everywhere, detachable mag that was not worth a hoot, a bolt that moved like a crowbar through rocks and a trigger that must have pulled 15 lbs. About two seasons for it, and the sheet metal extractor broke off the bolt face.
Many of my hunting pals as a kid had bolt shotguns.
We went through two bolt shotguns when I was a kid, both .410's. My Dad bought a Mossberg bolt with an adjustable choke, the dang thing shot off the first season we hunted it. He replaced the Mossberg with a Savage bolt, that was about the cheapest shotgun I have ever seen. Sharp edges everywhere, detachable mag that was not worth a hoot, a bolt that moved like a crowbar through rocks and a trigger that must have pulled 15 lbs. About two seasons for it, and the sheet metal extractor broke off the bolt face.
Many of my hunting pals as a kid had bolt shotguns.
Lucas McCain
New member
I have a J.C. Higgins 12 ga. 5 shot tube mag, full choke. 30 inch barrel. In about 1956 ( I was 11 At the time) I bought it used at an auction sale for $30dollars. I used that gun for 7 years, only problem was the forearm cracked, but a hose clamp fixed that. That was money earned form trapping pocket gophers for 2 bits apiece. Couple things you have to remember, a lot of hunters back then went through the depression of 1930, and the 50's weren't so damn great either. We hunted for meat. We didn't waste the limited ammo you had on shooting at flying ducks. The hardware store, we didn't have a gun shop, would sell us shells at 10 cents apiece. We would buy 5 and go hunting for the weekend. I would get over a dozen ducks for the weekend sometimes. The limit then was 8 a day. We sneak up on a slough with ducks and wait till you got 3-4 lined up and ground swat them. When I turned 18, was done with school and got a job and had some money, I up graded to a used L.C.Smith for $50 and could afford a box Gambels Hiawatha shells for $2. I then started shooting the ducks out of the air. It definitely was a lot more fun and gratifying than ground swatting them.
Just a note on the L.C. Smith. When I bought that double barrel a Stevens model 311 cost $70. The reason the L.C. Was so cheap is because the company was gone, no parts were readily available, if something was wrong you would more than likely have to have the part handmade. Therefore a L.C. Smith was the cheapest gun in the rack. Very few people wanted one. I wish I would have known then what I know now. That old gun has never failed me once. When steel shot became necessary, I retired it for ducks, I still use if I go after pheasants.
Times were different back in the old days, and they weren't all that good always. I wouldn't trade them for anything either. We were all in the same boat, and just did the best we could.
Just a note on the L.C. Smith. When I bought that double barrel a Stevens model 311 cost $70. The reason the L.C. Was so cheap is because the company was gone, no parts were readily available, if something was wrong you would more than likely have to have the part handmade. Therefore a L.C. Smith was the cheapest gun in the rack. Very few people wanted one. I wish I would have known then what I know now. That old gun has never failed me once. When steel shot became necessary, I retired it for ducks, I still use if I go after pheasants.
Times were different back in the old days, and they weren't all that good always. I wouldn't trade them for anything either. We were all in the same boat, and just did the best we could.
When I was a kid, in the 50's and 60's, bolt shotguns were pretty popular. A lot of "po'folk" had them. They were a step up from a break barrel single shot. Most of them came from Sears-Roebuck or Western Auto.
They might not have been very good for wing-shooting, but those people simply "pot hunted." If it ran, walked, or flew and would fit into, or be cut up, it went into the pot.
When I got my mother to order a new shotgun when I was about 16 years old, I was torn between a Sears Bolt Action and a Sears Double. I went with the double.
They might not have been very good for wing-shooting, but those people simply "pot hunted." If it ran, walked, or flew and would fit into, or be cut up, it went into the pot.
When I got my mother to order a new shotgun when I was about 16 years old, I was torn between a Sears Bolt Action and a Sears Double. I went with the double.
QUOTE: "...with a little practice, I can cycle the second shot about as quick as a pump gun."
QUOTE: "You need to practice more with the pump..."
QUOTE: "Nope... Oh, ye of little faith. Properly used a bolt gun can be cycled very rapidly..."
I don't need to walk on water to know that there's no way on God's green earth that any bolt-action comes close to rivaling a pump when it comes to rapidity of subsequent shots. Pump guns come close to autos in trained hands in terms of speed.
You might be faster with one bolt-action than someone else using another bolt-action but you will never approach the speed of a pump with a bolt-action.
QUOTE: "You need to practice more with the pump..."
QUOTE: "Nope... Oh, ye of little faith. Properly used a bolt gun can be cycled very rapidly..."
I don't need to walk on water to know that there's no way on God's green earth that any bolt-action comes close to rivaling a pump when it comes to rapidity of subsequent shots. Pump guns come close to autos in trained hands in terms of speed.
You might be faster with one bolt-action than someone else using another bolt-action but you will never approach the speed of a pump with a bolt-action.
Cycle
Dgl: you are, if course, correct about the speed with wch a pump shotgun can be cycled:
Love those Pat Flanigan videos:
https://youtu.be/BYfqu-llMbU
A bolt gun can be cycled pretty fast - not Flanigan fast but still fast:
https://youtu.be/BRZZcNCTFyQ
Note the time to operate the bolt for one shot ---forget the aiming, just the bolt cycle.
Dgl: you are, if course, correct about the speed with wch a pump shotgun can be cycled:
Love those Pat Flanigan videos:
https://youtu.be/BYfqu-llMbU
A bolt gun can be cycled pretty fast - not Flanigan fast but still fast:
https://youtu.be/BRZZcNCTFyQ
Note the time to operate the bolt for one shot ---forget the aiming, just the bolt cycle.
The shotgun in the video was Winchester with speedpump. It could be even faster if a bump fire shotgun was used.
In the mad minute match, shooters held the bolt knobs with thumb and index finger, and pulled the trigger with middle finger. This technique required a smooth cycling action with correct position of the bolt knob relative to the trigger, such as Lee Enfield cock-on-close. A normal bolt shotgun probably won't work. And you don't want to hold a gun like that when you hunt anyway.
Bolt action is much stronger than pump, and it is an over kill for shot shells. It sacrifice a needed feature, speed, for unneeded performance, strength.
-TL
In the mad minute match, shooters held the bolt knobs with thumb and index finger, and pulled the trigger with middle finger. This technique required a smooth cycling action with correct position of the bolt knob relative to the trigger, such as Lee Enfield cock-on-close. A normal bolt shotgun probably won't work. And you don't want to hold a gun like that when you hunt anyway.
Bolt action is much stronger than pump, and it is an over kill for shot shells. It sacrifice a needed feature, speed, for unneeded performance, strength.
-TL
Bolt action shotguns were not stronger than a pump. Every pump I have seen has the bolt lock into the barrel or forward portion of the receiver in some fashion. The bolt shotguns relied on a squared off handle boss that was welded to the bolt to keep the action closed, and the action/ barrel was even two piece.
Bolt action high power rifles for the most part are very different animals.
Bolt action high power rifles for the most part are very different animals.
Bolt
Understand that I agree that the pump is a faster action. About the shooting prone vs a field position....for extended shooting, one cannot disagree. For one shot, though, a quick manipulation is quite doable. The shooter manipulates the bolt in a manner very much like a straight pull bolt: the first shot is fired, the hand shifts back (maybe) and the top edge of the hand slides under the bolt knobat the same time the shooter rotates the edge of the hand up and back. It is not necessary to grasp the bolt.The fired shell ejects and the hand rotates forward catching the bolt with the thumb, driving it forward and chambering the next shell....a flick up and back.
Understand that I agree that the pump is a faster action. About the shooting prone vs a field position....for extended shooting, one cannot disagree. For one shot, though, a quick manipulation is quite doable. The shooter manipulates the bolt in a manner very much like a straight pull bolt: the first shot is fired, the hand shifts back (maybe) and the top edge of the hand slides under the bolt knobat the same time the shooter rotates the edge of the hand up and back. It is not necessary to grasp the bolt.The fired shell ejects and the hand rotates forward catching the bolt with the thumb, driving it forward and chambering the next shell....a flick up and back.
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My dad bought me my first new shotgun in 1975. It was a Mossberg 20 gauge bolt action.
He got it for me to go on my first pheasant hunt.
I'm left eye dominant so I always shot long guns left handed. With a little practice I got to where I could shoot double clays with it quite well, and had no problem getting my share of birds in the field at 14 years old.
He got it for me to go on my first pheasant hunt.
I'm left eye dominant so I always shot long guns left handed. With a little practice I got to where I could shoot double clays with it quite well, and had no problem getting my share of birds in the field at 14 years old.