Body armor for instructors

When do you wear body armor?

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recreational shooting is a safe sport, given proper discipline, procedures and knowledge
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Even so, as an instructor, you are dealing with people trying to gain proper discipline, procedures, and knowledge...they might not "get it" yet!

Many Driver's Ed cars have brakes for the instructor. Students make mistakes.
(Everyone does, but those just learning tend to make them more frequently.)

I don't understand how using protective equipment goes against teaching discipline, procedures, or knowledge for recreational shooting.
 
I've seen a student point a gun down the line of about 15 students. Looked like the Rockettes stepping backwards.

Saw a student draw his gun and throw it down range about 10 feet.

One of my beginning instructors wore armor. I wasn't insulted.
 
If you are that concerned about fashion try this...

http://www.smartmoney.com/spend/dumbmoney/the-4000-bulletproof-polo-shirt-1337188343468/

Saw a student draw his gun and throw it down range about 10 feet.
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Saw a 44 AutoMag fly downrange at a handgun silhouette match. The owner was removed and kicked out of the gun club.

I'd wear a vest on the training range. I've been exposed to a lot of "professionals" that do unsafe things all the time. Familiarity breeds contempt and complacency.
 
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Seems to me that if the instructor needs to wear body armor, then the students should too. After all, if a student makes a mistake and is apt to shoot the instructor, he is just as apt to shoot the other students.
 
I've never once, in my years of teaching, even come close to feeling like I needed any kind of armor. I don't have the answer for the rest of you.

Tell me this, though: when one of your students does one of these things, what does that imply to you?

What does it imply to you the second time?

The third time?
 
I think you're implying that those students are going to make the same mistakes over & over. I don't see that, I see new and exciting ways to make me **** my pants all the time.:eek:

I suppose I should've been clearer in the OP. I'm not really that concerned about the fashion sense. When I HAVE to wear it, the other instructors do too so no one stands out. I'm more interested in the etiquette for those other situations. Even taking it out of the red carrier and wearing it concealed, armor is never THAT concealed (maybe in winter.) I'm also thinking of starting to wear my old plates during my workouts.
 
I have a vest, ugly cream color thing, but have never worn it training a new shooter.
But … there have been a couple times I would have been more comfortable with the heavy, hot, thing on … a particular 80+ yr old lady with deceased hubby’s .32 auto comes to mind. Here’s a quote : "Here’s Stanley’s pistol. I suppose it’s loaded. He always kept it loaded." … This during a surprise pull out of the purse and that itty bitty muzzle seemed to be pointed everywhere on me at once, and with that bony little finger on the itty bitty trigger the whole time.:eek:
Hubby had been dead for years and the pistol lived in her night stand all that time. Before the actual lesson, I had dropped off copies (old versions, been a while) of the NRA basic pistol book, home firearm safety book, an orientation flier (my own version), and a cover letter. The flier and letter both had 16 point boldface instructions to NOT bring a gun to the first lesson, also had told her this in person (pointed it out on the flier, in fact) and twice over the phone…. Yep, it was loaded, severely gunked up, but functioned just fine.

What does not kill us is a chance to learn. Never trust a newbie.

The red vest … careful washing the outer … though pink might be more attention -getting. :cool:
 
I teach gun safety every time I'm on the range too, and I very rarely am working with "new" or inexperienced shooters. But I don't even try to fool myself that everyone will follow the rules and be safe. I certainly wouldn't trust a class of full new students that much. If I had a vest and was acting in an official capacity in some way, I'd wear the vest.

I've had to physically control a handful of guns/ shooters already to prevent a gun from being waved down the line. I've also had a deputy drop a hot AR on the deck before... It is not a warm and fuzzy feeling.

There should never be a "third time" if we're talking about safety violations.
 
No, what I was implying was relatively straightforward, and perhaps slightly naive.

My classes start in a classroom. My classes start with lectures, and move on to demonstrations. Then my students handle first training weapons and then "safe" weapons, and finally weapons.

One at a time, with me, in the classroom. One at a time, so everyone can watch every mistake. With me, so I can make corrections that everyone can hear. In the classroom so I don't have to shout through hearing protection.

I wasn't implying that the students were going to make the same mistake over and over. I was implying that the instructor IS making the same mistake. Over and over.

The overwhelming majority of students, in my experience, will take correction and apply it, provided it is given professionally.

If one of your students sweeps the line, it could be the student.

If it happens a second time, with another student, it's not the students.

Methods can be adjusted. Methods can be added. More time can be taken. Different approaches tried.

When one of my students sweeps the line, they do it with a blue gun, and everyone sees it. Not only does that student get corrected, but the entire class sees and hears it. Then they have two more chances to get it right before we move to the firing line. By the time we get to the firing line, no one is going to sweep the line, no one is going to throw their weapon downrange or any of the other drama I've been reading about.

That works for me.

I'd urge any instructor reading this to find a way that works for them. It's what we get paid to do.

Consider this list of facts:

  • They can do anything we teach them to do.
  • They will do anything we teach them to do.
  • They're doing something wrong.
Now. Given that list, who and what really needs to change?

My answer is "not body armor".
 
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"If it happens a second time, with another student, it's not the students."

I would have to disagree with this. It's muscle memory that keeps the finger indexed and the gun under control. Students just don't have that yet. They're thinking about the million other bits of information that we, as instructors, take for granted. I could stomp on the offender as hard as possible, making an example. And two minutes later someone else will sweep because he dropped a magazine. I see 10 year USPSA Master shooters sweep the crowd. Handle a firearm enough and we all do it. The best instructor, following the most conservative of lesson plans, will still get more than one sweeper.

"Consider this list of facts:
They can do anything we teach them to do.
They will do anything we teach them to do.
They're doing something wrong."

I wouldn't call them "facts."
Not every student can do what we teach them, exactly as we teach it. Most people have smaller hands than I do. They can't physically manipulate the gun like I do.
They can only take what we teach them and apply it to the knowledge they gain from other instructors. I don't want clones of me, I would hope that they would end up better shooters.:D
Students aren't the only ones who make mistakes on the line, instructors get tired, distracted, complacent, bored, etc. because we're human.
 
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If you have the vest and want to wear it, that is an option for you. Not saying it is wrong to wear the vest. It sounds like you may need more qualified help on the range.

One thing I believe is vital for a class is having enough qualified instructors and range officers to assist the shooters. The instructors and range officers need to understand that when they are on the range, their job is to assist the shooters and help ensure a safe and productive range session. Chit chat with other range help can be done when they are off the range.

I do understand what Jammer Six is saying. I have worked with many shooters, and not once did they point the muzzle at me or another person on the range. They are given instruction before they ever get to the range and instruction while on the range. I watch them very closely and can address a potential problem quickly if necessary.

Some may consider the following to be overkill, but it was worked very well for me and the shooters I have assisted.

When possible, I have them shoot from the side of the range that is opposite of their strong hand. Example - if they are going to be shooting right handed, I start them to the left side of the range as long as the shooters to the right have good muzzle control and safety discipline. A right handed shooter will have a tendency to have the muzzle pointed to their left - especially when inserting/removing magazines, cartridge or casings.

When possible, I avoid the shooting lane next to the wall. We don't want the bullet from one of their shots to hit the wall. The lane next to the wall can also be intimidating for many shooters. Put the experienced and accurate shooters in the lanes next to a wall.

The muzzle is ALWAYS parallel to the shooting lane/floor/ceiling. If they start to break this rule, they are corrected well before the muzzle would sweep someone else.

I have them start out by dry firing and loading/clearing the firearm with snap caps. This lets them learn how to handle and operate a firearm in a less stressful situation.

I then have them load and shoot only one cartridge at a time for several minutes. This gives me time to watch their muzzle control, trigger finger control (trigger finger on the frame until the muzzle is on target), how they are able to handle the recoil and other safety disciplines. Many shooters lose their muzzle control when they remove/insert a magazine from the mag well or cartridge/casing from a revolver cylinder or when they are bringing the firearm on target. Most people have a tendency for that dreaded cowboy arc you see in most movies or TV shows. Starting out with one cartridge at a time also gives them practice loading and clearing the firearm. I allow them to load more than one cartridge in the magazine or cylinder when they demonstrate they have good muzzle control, trigger finger control and other safety disciples.

I take the shooter through progressive steps. Moving to another step helps them feel good about their progress. It also helps to reduce or relieve their fear of firearms. We want them to understand and respect firearms not be fearful of them. If a shooter understands what is required of them in advance by classroom time and demonstration on the range, they are very likely to be able to follow instructions when given proper instruction on the range. It is very gratifying to see a shooter handle a firearm safely and be able to shoot accurately.
 
I do understand what you're saying, and in my experience, new shooters do tend to be more cautious. But I also see experienced shooters break the rules that they KNOW are sacred.

We're getting off topic though... There's no question about wearing the armor when I'm working, we all do. That's why we're getting it issued. I'm wondering who wears it outside the job.
 
The only time I wear mine is when going into an elevated risk area or situation. .. such as collecting rent or handing out eviction notices … if the area or tenant is questionable. It was given to me by a cop friend that thinks I need it because of the areas I go into for work. The vest stays concealed when wearing it, of course.

Giving gun safety/use courses is a hobby/personal mission for me and almost exclusively with older ladies… Usually 1 student at a time and often I have an assistant (sometimes my wife, and formerly with another certified instructor until he died recently). The shooting is done at a private range or the local police range. The 1 on 1, or 2 on 1 approach makes it where I don’t have nearly the problems that you pros have to contend with. The most we taught at one time was 5. The "second instructor" is also to help the student be more comfortable.
 
FWIW, as a student I wouldn't take offense if my instructors wear armor. One more safety element, and I really don't think it makes trainees any more complacent on the range.
 
Jammer Six - it is amazing that your students are not like the rest of humanity when it comes to making mistakes.

I have seen such by students under the tutelage of some of the best instructors we have.

It is not drama and frankly, I don't think your experience can generalize. Your attitude that your instruction can program out human factors errors is not really that believable.

Your continued insinuation about the seeming incompetence of other instructors is not welcome.
 
I wear mine every time I go to the range, noobs rapid fire, bullets criss cross maybe, and could hit you. Gun blow and your chest is ripped. Always wear.

Do you wear a seat belt when driving?
Do you wear a life vest boating?
Why not wear a vest shooting?
 
Glenn, I never imagined that it would be "welcome." Furthermore, I tried to make my point obliquely, but you, among others, would have none of it.

I've considered your version of teaching and rejected it. I guess we're going to disagree.

Anyone can get better. Anyone can improve. Teachers can become better teachers. I don't blame my students for their mistakes on the firing line.

The vest is a symptom of that state of affairs, and certainly isn't a solution.

Be that as it may, I've made my point, and am content with where it stands. None of this is intended to offend, none of my posts are intended to be personal.

I assume you are speaking as a moderator when you say my comments here aren't welcome, and I would suggest that as a moderator, you consider allowing criticism.

Carry on.
 
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To me, it is part of the instructor "uniform" as much as the badge is to the uniformed officer on the street and the cap that says "Coach" on the Little League team.

It also emphasizes to the students that a firearm is a deadly weapon. Far from making students complacent (as was suggested in one post) I think it makes them less complacent. A silent reminder that training and target bullets can kill just as dead by accident as self-defense hollowpoints can on purpose.

Yes, wear it proudly and prominently.

Lost Sheep
 
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