Body armor considerations: Poll, how many wear body armor?

In gun-taboo California it is illegal for anyone not LEO or military in the performance of their duties to posess a vest. Felony subject to many many years in the stockade.

Strange place California - you can open carry a gun but you can't have the ammo/clip on your person (or in the passenger area of a car or within arms reach otherwise). If you do it's an irrebuttable presumption that you're carrying a concealed weapon even if it's on your hip and in plain sight. However, if you're transporting the weapon to/from a legal shooting place the weapon MUST BE hidden in a locked container complete with the ammo even when you're carrying it (the container) in your hand.

As an aside, if you DO open carry an empty firearm, you'll be sure to receive extra attention from every local LE officer in the county one-after-another all day, every day that you carry. Betcha you'll even get to visit the graybar hotel too. Even though it's "legal".
 
A couple of things.

- I thought kevlar degraded in sunlight and the thinner lower level vests had a short service life?

- I think your more likely to get shanked then shot and a level 2 I dont think would stop a tanto etc.

-If your not on the job then your not thinking clearly enough if your planning on being in areas where your actually gonna try that thing out...

-you know if wont matter much if you get cranked in the head huh

If I lived in a neighborhood where I needed to wear a vest day in and day out. I would move. I think you have your scenarios to planned out...more than likely if a gunfight occurs, youll have little warning, and the smart thing should be to find cover prior to firing back..I dont think you can plan these things out, If you do have enough advance warning, wouldnt it be safer all round to just leave and vacate the area?..Im not even gonna comment on wearing a vest to a range..if you range needs them..I dont want to shoot there. I looked into buying one a few years ago, strictly to wear on the job.
 
I understand that Kevlar has a life of at least 10 years under normal use. It degrades faster under water, not sure about sunlight but mine is concealed so it's not an issue.

Two primary attack concerns, gun and knife.

I'll address the gun first. If someone draws a gun on me and robs me, I'll cooperate completely until the threat stops paying attention and I can draw, the threat is satisfied and flees, or the threat appears to be ready to shoot me despite I cooperated. If my cooperation was insufficient, I'll draw and hope for the best. I'm a good shot and have a vest and carry a man-stopping caliber. But that's where the vest comes into play. At that point, unless he hits my head, the survivability is almost 100% from any common "thug" handgun round (ie .38, 9mm, or .40). It's unlikely he'll hit my head or an artery causing me to bleed to death.

Knife threats are also dangerous. I'll cooperate with anyone that draws a knife on me similarly to the situations above. For most people, even thugs, it's harder to stab or cut someone than to pull a trigger. There's just something psychological about it I suspect, but knifiings against cooperating people would probably be unlikely. And, as soon as I can I'll distance myself and draw and I'll have the immediate advantage. Further, a vest offers SOME protection against a knife, or better than nothing and probably equal to a heavy jacket or leather jacket.

As someone mentioned, vests are also excellent in car accidents. Since I drive about 70 miles per day, it's a great investment.
 
I have to agree with axslingerW. If you are wearing a gun and using it as a confidence builder, maybe you have a chance at getting shot at. I had my days of wearing vest and toting an iron. After wearing one every day to work, that is about the last thing I want to do. I think a good pair of sneakers would be better. If I can run faster and jump higher, maybe I won't get shot.

As for the vest and it's ability to be penetrated, They are good but not perfect. Years ago, yes I am an old fart...We took a spare vest and pulled the pannels out of the jacket and laid them over some rubber tires and proceded to shoot at it with everything we had. Some bullets would melt into the fabric, some would dent it and then drop to the ground and some would flatten the material but not go through. We used .22, 30-30, .44 mags, .357/.38 etc. with all kinds of jacketed and lead bullets and even deer slugs all at about 10 yds.

Then we took a light weight (35# draw as I recall) recurve bow and shot a cheep razorblade hunting arrow at it.........Zing.......right through the vest like it was not there. So if you see a cowboy with a .45 Colt, you may have a chance. If it's a bow hunter...ya better run! Now this was maybe 25 years ago and the vest have come a long way, but I bet they will still not stop a hunting arrow...Be careful!
 
Vests are hot. I can't stand hot. I some times wear mine to the range in cold weather. If I heard something go bump in the night I would put it on. For normal wear outside of winter conditions forget it.

As far as knives go, yes, I understand that vests "can" be penetrated. I suspect that in most cases with most knives they would not be. they should provide extremely good defense against a slashing attack. Of course, 18 layers of burlap would provide a good defense against a slashing attack.

If you don't believe me about the knife, take your favorite stabber and stick it into a pile of corrugated cardboard. Even a sharp pointed, heavy blade will only penetrate a short way. By the time a blade penetrates 18 layers of kevlar, it is probably not going to go too deep into flesh.

This is my opinion, not the result of any scientific test.
 
I prefer to tape on about 14 inches of ballistic geletin over my body as most handgun rounds won't penetrate that deep, and I find it weighs less than most vests and keeps me cooler. Plus I can always pluck the round from the gel and send it over to CSI for identification to see who was shooting at me.

Really though...as a civilian, you'll probably never need a vest. And if you do, you either need to stop looking for trouble, or you need to move away from it.
 
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16.htm

Armor vs. bullet testing.

Handgun rounds and shotgun slugs and buckshot are stopped, but they leave one heck of a dent in the clay backstop. Some of these dents are the size of a baseball or softball!

Rifle rounds go right through and leave a very aweful hole.

I cannot imagine how terrible it would be to be shot, even with a vest.
 
OUCH! Look at those cavernous pockets! Thats gonna leave a MARK! I think I'd rather be SHOT - it will probably hurt less!
 
Deciding to carry a gun is a bit of a lifestyle change. I can get used to 2# of steel on one side of my hip. I can get used to checking my pockets before I walk into an airport or courthouse.

Wearing a ballistic vest under my shirt in 90 degree weather is just too much of a lifestyle change for me.

"If you don't believe me about the knife, take your favorite stabber and stick it into a pile of corrugated cardboard. Even a sharp pointed, heavy blade will only penetrate a short way. By the time a blade penetrates 18 layers of kevlar, it is probably not going to go too deep into flesh."

At least one person has been killed with a stab through a ballistic vest. I read about a Russian who was killed while betting his ballistic vest was knife-proof. He lost the bet. I think I saw it in the Darwin awards.
 
I always wear my vest at work, and never wear it off duty. I do have an older vest I keep next to the gun cabinet, just in case. However, if I thought I needed to wear a vest every time I left the house, I'd probably never go out.
 
My comments come from walking the earth for 62 years, several of which were spent in LE.

If one was to remove from the stats the people actually shot or assaulted while in neighborhoods that are dicey or engaging in behavior that puts one in harms way, (being a gangbanger for instance, or a drug seller, or a general run of the mill nitwit that beats his wife and annoys his neighbors squared) I would believe that one would be more likely be hit by a double stroke of lightning than having the need to wear body armor.

While being skilled in the use of handguns is a worthy thing, (I shoot very well with either hand) and carrying concealed is something that I do more often than not, and believe strongly in teaching firearm use and safety to kids, I am in no way paranoid enough to even consider buying tactical clothing as my primary wardrobe. There is being aware and prepared and then there is fringe behavior that causes muffled laughter. Buying and wearing body armor while engaged in and living an ordinary, day to day life is making me want to place my hand over my mouth and snort.

Sorry, no slight intended, just my life experience .02 cents.
 
by the way, should you get shot in the vest, i'm pretty sure you won't be up to returning fire, and when your attacker sees you arent bleeding out he/she might just put one in your head.
 
spaceman..thats not correct. while you will end up with a nasty bruise from a typical service caliber handgun.......it will not knock you down or keep you from returning fire.....in fact it hurts just enough to really piss a person off.
you need to do a bit more research(not TV) before making statements like that.......one off the demos Rich Davis used to do is shoot himself with a .44mag and then without skipping a beat....shoot several bowling pins off the table to show just what you are say is not correct.....I wear the stuff , I have been to classes on it, been saved by it, and and I am a member of the IACP/dupont kevlar survivers club.
people dont dent like clay.
 
making me want to place my hand over my mouth and snort.

Well Grampy, thats a new one for me ..... I may want to use it sometime if you don't have a copywrite on it! :D
 
in fact it hurts just enough to really piss a person off.
Click to expand...
do you say that having been shot while wearing a vest? unless there are the trauma plates inserted, the wearer will very likely have some broken bones or even damaged organs. quality soft body armor flexes up to two inches when hit.

tell you what, you go out there and you shoot yourself with a 44mag, a 45, a 357mag/sig, and you come back and tell us what you could do immediately afterwards.

rich davis made a great product, no doubt about that, but i wonder about his mental condition when i see his demos.

besides this is all academic for me anyways. i just ordered a cloaking bodysuit so the bad guys wont be able to see me. i could have spent an extra $19.99 and got the cloaking balaclava as well, but i gotta eat this week.
so i guess i'll just weird people out when they only see my neck/head bobbing along.
 
And once again...you have failed to F'in do any real research into the subject
and are clinging to some very incorrect conclusions.
 
Spiff, I could see it now the invisable man sprouts a head.

Anyway, for a little medical advice from a nurse. The vest will save a life, but could just prolong death. If you took a 12 slug or 00 buckshot to the chest. you could very likely suffer some serious internal injuries. The aortic arch is an area in the chest right above the heart that is poorly supported. A very hard blow to that area of the chest could cause a tear or rupture in that vessel. And that will lead to death fairly quickly. If shot over the spine you could break the vertabre and potentially damage the spinal cord. Of course there is an excelent chance you'll break ribs receiving such a strong blow in the side. This is from shotgun blasts. The handgun rounds will bruise and maybe break a rib or two. All will cause tissue damage. The extent will vary on the weight and velocity of the rounds. The 12ga slug could rupture the spleen or lacerate the liver. Kidney rupture is also possiable if hit in the lumbar area. Of course all these are better than haveing a 124, 165, 180, 200, 230gr bullet or shotgun slug go ripping through you. Well have fun with the rest of the discussion.

Oh, I don't wear a vest. :D
 
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