Bob Barr Enters Presidential Race as Libertarian

Will you consider voting for Bob Barr for President?

  • Yes

    Votes: 64 45.4%
  • No

    Votes: 77 54.6%

  • Total voters
    141
RP thinks he's going to take over the GOP convention and oust McCain. Yeah right. He's got what, 40 some odd delegates? Yeah, I see that happening.

Something Significant Happened in Spokane
Posted April 22nd, 2008 by Goodbytes
Something Significant Happened in Spokane

Despite the siren call of the warm spring weather last Saturday, a record number of hopeful Republicans turned out for the 4/12/08 Spokane County Republican Convention held at Lewis & Clark High School. Though disappointed that I was unable to participate as a delegate due to a prolonged, out-of-state work commitment during our February Caucus, I knew it would be instructive to see first-hand how the process worked and so I volunteered at the Ron Paul information booth. I figured that even if I couldn't sling a ballot, at least I could show up to discuss the issues with the curious and uninformed - and maybe even help sway a vote or two.

With people arriving at 7:30am and some staying past 9pm to finish counting the ballots and conclude the work, few could have predicted that this event would turn into the marathon that it did. Approximately 540 delegates showed up to vote for 111 delegates and a platform to take to the upcoming WA State convention. There were many young people in attendance and amazingly, over half of the delegates were first time participants which is a promising sign of renewed participation in our political process. It is a common story that many new people decided to get involved after years of apathetic inaction. They cite an escalating sense of alarm and frustration over the Iraqi War debacle, unprecedented deficit spending, porous borders and a general sense that we have lost control over our party and our country.

Listening to the morning speeches from WA State gubernatorial candidate Dino Rossi and others was both informative and reassuring that we’ve got some talented people running for various offices. One of the highlights of the morning was a rousing speech by Rob Chase that echoed the themes of Ron Paul’s candidacy. Yet as the day wore on and the platform was debated and voting ensued, it became increasingly apparent that what I was witnessing was something far more significant than what I expected. This was no ordinary, pre-ordained, rubber-stamp-the-party-line-and-get-out-before-lunch kind of an affair. What was unfolding through the arduous and combative convention process was nothing less than a stunning GRASSROOTS REVOLT!

It was obvious from the beginning that the McCain campaign came prepared to win by trying to dominate the event. In the basketball stadium where we met, one certainly couldn’t miss their HUGE 40'x10' McCain For President sign that took up half of a wall and dwarfed all other signage from other campaigns (I wonder how much that must have cost?). Even though they brought in professional hired guns in the form of well-paid staff (that nobody seemed to recognize as being from our community), the day was carried by the passionate, well-organized and extremely dedicated Ron Paul campaign.

In the 6th District meeting that represented the largest delegate total, it was decided that each delegate publicly declare their preference for a Presidential candidate before the voting could actually began (not sure which camp asked for that). Throughout the day we witnessed the McCain team doing everything within their power to try to dominate the agenda and sway the voting (as expected). Their tactics were both subtle and overt as they tried to confuse the newbie Ron Paul conventioneers by quoting obscure rules and procedures. At other times, they used heavy-handed, authoritative sounding directives and gamesmanship in attempts to promote their chosen delegates and derail the Ron Paul delegates and positions. At one point, Yoko managed to prevent one of them from trying to steal an unattended Ron Paul delegate list.

Also notable in the 6th District meeting, the McCain people employed a multi-media projector that prominently displayed on the front wall exactly which (McCain) delegates they expected everyone to vote for. After another round of protests and debate, their projector was eventually turned off (almost by force) and their subsequent attempts to dominate the process were systematically beaten back as we fought steadily throughout a very long and exhausting day of arguing, motioning and voting. This meeting eventually concluded well into the evening after three time consuming rounds of voting and hand counting.

In the 3rd District meeting, a female delegate became disruptive which temporarily brought activities to a halt while a search ensued for the Sergeant-at-Arms to bring the meeting back to order.

In several of the instances mentioned above, the only thing that saved the day were some alert Ron Paul people who were willing to display some intestinal fortitude by literally standing up and questioning authority and/or challenging the status quo. Courage is what it takes to be successful in a political process where the war of ideas can inflame emotions and sometimes manifests as a verbal boxing match. Convention politics is a forum where big egos try to dominate the discussion and silence dissent. Small, organized groups promote their agendas and sway the votes through a Byzantine set of rules that few people know and understand. Those in powerful positions don’t hesitate to use those rules to their advantage, even squelching debate at times.

So the fact that the upstart Ron Paul camp was able to pull it all together in a relatively short period of time to upset the status quo and soundly defeat the McCain contingent was an astonishing achievement. We should all be extremely proud of this recent success, as it is the latest and most tangible example to date of how far we have come in taking back our party.

Still, we would do well to remember that much of the drama was primarily an expression of multiple passionate viewpoints. This cathartic process strengthens our local Republican Party and proves to the skeptics that we have a vibrant and evolving, non-monolithic group of thoughtful people that is capable of self-reflection and change.

Here are some of the most important accomplishments that came out of this Convention:

1) 107 out of 111 delegates were elected who favor Ron Paul and his positions. Only 4 delegates were elected who favor McCain. This was a HUGE and unexpected upset that surpassed the wildest expectations of everyone in our group.
2) Perhaps the most far-reaching and controversial platform position originated from the grass roots organization. It was a statement under the National Sovereignty And Defense heading, “Limiting the executive privilege of committing troops to police actions to a duration of 180 days, without a Congressional Declaration of War” (as the Constitution mandates). The McCain people fought this plank VERY hard and tried to add an amendment gutting the intent of this position by changing the language to a simple statement to "support our troops". After approx. 30 minutes of back and forth arguments, motions and multiple votes, the McCain amendment was soundly defeated 280 to 170. As stated in the Spokane Spokesman Review, "The platform statement on the use of troops didn’t specifically name Iraq, but County Chairman Curt Fackler and representatives of the McCain campaign agreed it was essentially a repudiation of the current war policy and the course that McCain has said he would take if elected".

3) The overwhelming nature of our victory suggests the strong possibility for future changes in our local area. Indeed the groundwork has been laid to influence future leadership and platform direction as we have successfully outmaneuvered and overturned the status quo in our County and helped shape the debate moving forward.

We have proven once again that a small group of dedicated, organized and tenacious people can make a huge difference, the end result of which was a dramatic tipping point that happened right here in our own backyard. If similar stories can successfully play out in other parts of America, it would mark the beginning of the end of the Neo-Con grip on the Republican Party and a chance to return to the traditional core values and principles that made our country great.

John Zimmerman
Spokane, WA

This is happening all over the country.:D
 
Rant!

In short, any vote for Barr is also a vote for the Dems. I am all for people's right to choose, but it just seems like some are just being stubborn. If you vote for this spoiler, you will not be throwing away your vote, you will be voting for the Democratic candidate!

I agree that the choices are not the best in this election, but to those who vote for Barr over McCain - don't start complaining when your rights get taken away. If you don't want to vote for a viable candidate, fine, don't vote at all. That would be better than actively electing Obama or Clinton.

End of Rant.
 
In short, any vote for Barr is also a vote for the Dems. I am all for people's right to choose, but it just seems like some are just being stubborn. If you vote for this spoiler, you will not be throwing away your vote, you will be voting for the Democratic candidate!

I agree that the choices are not the best in this election, but to those who vote for Barr over McCain - don't start complaining when your rights get taken away.

stubborn?, You seem just like the main stream media, Telling Ron Paul and Bob Barr and other candidates that there to blame if McCain loses the election.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO-6WzKDVGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fSg5Fq0dxU
Hannity is an #$%#:mad:
 
am all for people's right to choose, but it just seems like some are just being stubborn. If you vote for this spoiler, you will not be throwing away your vote, you will be voting for the Democratic candidate!

Utter nonsense. You seem to be all for people's right to choose, as long as their choice accords with your own. Not duty, not honor, not morals, not conscience, not love of country - none of these obliges me to vote for whichever unflushable turd the Republicans throw at me. McCain has already made a mockery of his oath of office on repeated occasions. No thank you. Let the Republicans nominate a worthy candidate, not McCain/Feingold/Kennedy/Kyoto John, and then, perhaps, I'll vote "R." Until then, I will vote for the candidate duty, honor, morals, conscience, and love of country do oblige me, presuming such can be found.
 
So far off base. Barr will be seen as a spoiler by those who will vote for anyone with an R next to their name. But, by traditional conservatives, he will be viewed as the only conservative on the November ballot.

I hope you know you're not speaking for all traditional conservatives. You definitely aren't speaking for this one.

Stunts like this one are why the Libertarians don't get my vote. They are trying to play the political game, and doing a horrible job at it.
 
The 1992, 1996, and 2000 elections were decided by a strong 3rd party candidate (not so much in 2004). I acknowledge the right of these candidates to run. I really was hoping the Reform Party would turn into something good, but it fizzled. I have voted Libertarian for president. But this time, I will vote for the least-bad candidate who has a chance at winning: McCain.

Lee
 
Utter nonsense. You seem to be all for people's right to choose, as long as their choice accords with your own. Not duty, not honor, not morals, not conscience, not love of country - none of these obliges me to vote for whichever unflushable turd the Republicans throw at me. McCain has already made a mockery of his oath of office on repeated occasions. No thank you. Let the Republicans nominate a worthy candidate, not McCain/Feingold/Kennedy/Kyoto John, and then, perhaps, I'll vote "R." Until then, I will vote for the candidate duty, honor, morals, conscience, and love of country do oblige me, presuming such can be found.

+1
 
Silver Bullet said:
We need third parties that split the Democrat vote.
Do Socialists and Communists and Greens have their own serious candidates this election, or are they on-board with Obama and his version of "Change?"

talonap said:
In short, any vote for Barr is also a vote for the Dems.
If you're going to be a Republican apologist, at least get the math right. The proper (although still semantically questionable, since it assumes the status quo is a vote for Republicans) statement would be, "Any vote for Barr is 1/2 a vote for the Dems."
Vote for McCain: Dems +0 Reps +1
Vote for Obama: Dems +1 Reps +0
Vote for Barr, or no vote: Dems +0 Reps +0

Almost nobody seems even remotely interested in fixing the voting system so that "3rd-party" votes are not "wasted votes." Even if the general electorate were interested in fixing/improving the voting system, Congresscritters wouldn't tolerate it. So where do we go from here? Are we doomed to an eternal sequence of degenerate 2-party races, with 3rd parties relegated to being "spoilers?"
 
"Almost nobody seems even remotely interested in fixing the voting system so that "3rd-party" votes are not "wasted votes." Even if the general electorate were interested in fixing/improving the voting system, Congresscritters wouldn't tolerate it. So where do we go from here? Are we doomed to an eternal sequence of degenerate 2-party races, with 3rd parties relegated to being "spoilers?""



Good post. Here in OK the Republicrats and Democans do not want us to have the option of a third party. People on this board are telling folks like me that i should hold my nose, retch and gag while voting for McCain because he is a Republican. Nonsense!!! Ain't drinking the RNC Kool Aid.
 
I love this pie in the sky political mentality that people have in which they have to continually tell themselves that they are doing the 'noble' thing by voting for a non-candidate.

The sooner people start realizing that the only thing that matters are the numbers (something which the dems figured out long ago) the sooner we start winning elections.

You can't push your agenda through if you're not in power. People like Ron Paul have a far better chance of getting things through with a McCain presidency and a republican congress than they do with a Hillibama presidency.

Voting for Barr or any other political reject is only shutting all the doors available to conservatives. But as long as it makes you feel good... :rolleyes:
 
Voting for Barr or any other political reject is only shutting all the doors available to conservatives. But as long as it makes you feel good...

It does

You can't push your agenda through if you're not in power. People like Ron Paul have a far better chance of getting things through with a McCain presidency and a republican congress than they do with a Hillibama presidency.

Nice try.........not!
 
Stage 2
I love this pie in the sky political mentality that people have in which they have to continually tell themselves that they are doing the 'noble' thing by voting for a non-candidate.

The sooner people start realizing that the only thing that matters are the numbers (something which the dems figured out long ago) the sooner we start winning elections.

You can't push your agenda through if you're not in power.

So according to your philosophy, if we had a Hitler running against a Stalin, we should vote for one of them because we are powerless? Is there any candidate your "party" could put forth that you would not vote for? Or, will you vote for whoever they put forward regardless of their political positions?

stage 2
Voting for Barr or any other political reject is only shutting all the doors available to conservatives. But as long as it makes you feel good...

Let me get this straight. You believe that voting for a liberal (McCain) is better than voting for a conservative (Barr). I guess that is fine if you are a liberal, but not fine if you are conservative. Stage 2, your logic makes my head want to explode.
 
I would like to vote for Barr on principle, but everyone here learned their lesson with Perot. That will not soon be forgotten. Obviously McWeasel knows it.
 
In short, any vote for Barr is also a vote for the Dems.
I am Oh, so tired of this stupid argument. Let us look at this intellectually.
Assume that at this point that the vote totals are thus:
Dems: 0
Repubs:0
Libertarians:0

Now, I am the first to vote. I vote for the Libertarian. The totals are now thus:
Dems: 0
Repubs:0
Libertarians:1

See, there are NO, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, votes for the dems.
If we assume your argument, then if I were to change my mind and vote for the Dems, they should now have 2 votes right?
Can we now let this horribly stupid argument die an ignoble death?
 
Can we now let this horribly stupid argument die an ignoble death?

Maybe if you actually understood the meaning behind it :confused:

The premise that a vote for a third party is a vote for the Dems or Obama is explained this way...listen closely, I'm gonna learn you something :cool:

Ok, say I am a third party supporter, my support is only because I can't stomach the other potentials. If I vote for the third party, instead of one of the two MAIN (read that viable if that helps) candidates of which one will win guaranteed, then I have taken away a vote I would have cast for the Republican because I surely wouldn't vote for Obama, he is too liberal.

Hence the equation should read this way:

Before anything happens

Obama - 0
McCain - 0
Barr - 0

If I choose to vote for the lesser of two evils then my vote would be this

Obama - 0
McCain - 1
Barr - 0

This gives McCain a one-up on Obama, now combine this with the other millions of voters and it keeps the margin closer than the below example

If I choose to vote for third party because I am crying about the choices, here is how I affect the results

Obama - 0
McCain - 0
Barr - 1

Barr will still lose, but I have in essence not helped Obama, but hurt McCain, because now the margin between the votes is in his favor. See????

On a small scale when you are looking at one vote it may not matter, but when you combine that with the other third party supporters out there, it can swing an election.

Surely, you knew this right? This isn't news to you.

Let's talk in common sense terms, not with irrational, emotional, I am voting my conscience talk. Elections are important and as such require us to do our duty to steer this country in the way it should go (aligned with our views individually). That doesn't mean we just bury our head in the sand and vote for someone who doesn't stand a chance just to prove a point to the Republicans, we could care less about you loons, but in the same sentence, I am going to tell you, you loons can impact an election. Not for who YOU want, but to screw the Republican party a little more.

Give it up, your vote is wasted, cast for Obama, etc. whatever you want to call it, if you vote for Bob Barr or any other third party candidate.
 
Give it up, your vote is wasted, cast for Obama, etc. whatever you want to call it, if you vote for Bob Barr or any other third party candidate.

That's B.S If mcCain was really that great he would win hands down. But with your logic. I am going to get a sure win If I vote for obama. I mean since you say I am throwing my vote away on a third party.

Does my vote for Obama count as 2 if I vote for him instead of a third party?

I imagine with your logic, you would be happy as hell If I was going to vote for Obama but changed my vote for Paul or Barr.

It's the sniveling from some of you that is getting old......I am America, I decide who I am going to vote for.:D
 
After the MS congressional election, we'd better hope that Heller comes through with stronger constitutional precedents for the 2nd Amend. The GOP looks like toast.

And we can thank all the folks who mindlessly supported GWB's failures because he was the LEADER.

The man had the opportunity to be proactive legislatively on the 2nd and instead chose to support the AWB (or be a liar) and have his DOJ stab Heller the back - as eloquently explained in the new SWAT.

Then his various policy fiascos screwed the pooch. Now he dances on the White House porch like an idiot waiting for his time to come to an end.
 
I imagine with your logic, you would be happy as hell If I was going to vote for Obama but changed my vote for Paul or Barr.

I would...see, now you are getting the political process. Any small government, pro 2A Democrats who are out there are more than welcome to switch their vote for Barr, that would be helping McCain.

Historically, research supports this, the ones who vote for the third party candidates are more right-leaning than not. Again, not 100% of the time, but more often than not its the norm.

That's B.S If mcCain was really that great he would win hands down. But with your logic. I am going to get a sure win If I vote for obama. I mean since you say I am throwing my vote away on a third party.

Nothing is for sure, that's why we have to try and convince people voting third party may not help or hurt either candidate in the overall process, but having a third party candidate historically takes away Republican votes. Don't hate the messenger bringing facts into it, just learn to play by the rules.

Does my vote for Obama count as 2 if I vote for him instead of a third party?

Little less noise and a better grasp of the political environment we live in would surely help you answer your own question.

It's the sniveling from some of you that is getting old......I am America, I decide who I am going to vote for.

Agreed, but I would say from you guys :D
 
An additional wrinkle: Here in California, in the presidential election, a vote for anyone not a Democrat is a vote for well, it just doesn't matter, it's entirely wasted since the Dem will win, and all of California's electoral votes go to the winner. So, by some twisted logic, since the conclusion is not in doubt, I should vote Dem so as not to waste my vote. Thanks for making that clear to me.

My future bumper sticker:
Don't blame me, I didn't waste my vote!
 
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