Blue Press Publishes Rebuttals to "Why the .45 ACP Failed" Article

wayne in boca said:
I was told there wouldn't be any math on this test.
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It is easy math.

11.5 X 22.8 X 7 = 1835

9 X 19 X 11 = 1881

So 7 rounds of 45 ACP roughly almost equals 11 rounds of 9mm. That is why we have two caliber war threads open now.

But when you throw the economics of bulk ammo in to play

11 X $.13 = $1.43

vs.

7 X $.46 = $3.22

The 9mm is the clear winner.
 
dgludwig said:
Most anything is possible but I very much doubt that people who choose larger caliber bullets for self-defense are "likely" untrained shooters. It's just as possible (if not likely) that a person who doesn't train enough will often choose a smaller caliber because they think it will make up for their lack of skill in terms of handling heavier recoiling pistols. Deciding on caliber size is not necessarily a reflection on the degree of training one might have.
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It can go either way; a person has to purchase a firearm in order to have it to use (usually).

Someone inexperienced may decide to go into a LGS, and present his 'desire for home defense' to the guy at the counter, who is probably a salesman. That salesman isn't going to suggest a smaller caliber, unless he's trying to steer him towards a compact pistol. If the buyer says no, I want a bigger gun, they're going to go up the ladder in caliber too.
If you're inexperienced, you're probably not thinking of recoil characteristics. You want a hand cannon to protect your castle.
 
Personally, I only like shooting .45 acp in a 1911 pistol, fits my hand and soaks up the recoil great. However, I'm not going to carry one on my hip all day when I can carry a pistol that's half the weight with double the capacity in 9mm.
 
MTT TL said:
It is easy math.

11.5 X 22.8 X 7 = 1835

9 X 19 X 11 = 1881

So 7 rounds of 45 ACP roughly almost equals 11 rounds of 9mm. That is why we have two caliber war threads open now.

But when you throw the economics of bulk ammo in to play

11 X $.13 = $1.43

vs.

7 X $.46 = $3.22

The 9mm is the clear winner.
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Not sure what you're trying to calculate. That's neither the area nor volume of a cylinder. If it's tongue in cheek I guess I missed the joke.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
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So, the 9mm killed the 40 and the 45 in one week.

Shouldn't there be an investigation into the 9mm behavior? Maybe a trial?

Seems strange that the puny 9mm is such a rogue killer!
 
dontcatchmany said:
So, the 9mm killed the 40 and the 45 in one week.

Shouldn't there be an investigation into the 9mm behavior? Maybe a trial?

Seems strange that the puny 9mm is such a rogue killer!
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The lesson to be learned here is not to mess with the 9mm. Soon all guns will be 9mm. Rifles, shotguns, airguns and even potato guns too.
 
Where's the links to the original articles?

I'll wait for the investigation by the Ukrainians and the Chinese. The impeachment of the 45acp as America's caliber will let us know.

These debates are never about caliber. They are about whether more power helps or makes no difference. They are about better shot placement and speed. Some believe that standard 9mm jhp ammo is all ya need and others (like the Army and the FBI) argue for the use of +P and +P+ ammo. "No one has proved that one works better than another in real world gunfights" etc. and think that argument actually means something.

Elmer Keith and Jack O'Conner both passed away arguing the 30-06 vs the 270. The thing is both work.

Thing is most folks wisely choose a pistol based on what they want to do with it and the caliber that goes with the mission.

tipoc
 
Everyone knows a fmj 45 will knock down a 200 lb man by just hitting him in the finger. And a hollow point 9MM will bounce off his belt buckle. If you don't believe it just ask some guy behind the gun counter at Bass Pro!:eek:
(Actual quotes I've heard there!)
 
"9mm VS .45 ACP" has kept the assorted gun rag writers employed for eons. It made Jeff Cooper famous too.
"...It is easy math...." There is no math.
"..."most troops in the sandbox"..." No troopie anywhere gets a choice. Handguns in the military are primarily status symbols anyway.
"...a pistol that's half the weight..." A BHP weighs 2 pounds 5 ounces, loaded. A 1911A1 weighs 2 pounds 7 ounces empty. You wouldn't notice the difference until the end of the day.
 
Cheapshooter said:
….a hollow point 9MM will bounce off his belt buckle. If you don't believe it just ask some guy behind the gun counter at Bass Pro!:eek:
(Actual quotes I've heard there!)
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Normally I would throw the Bullchips flag but if it was a Texas belt buckle I might believe it.
 
My suspicion is that the validity of that claim hinges more on the credibility of a particular gun counter clerk at a particular Bass Pro than it does on the type of belt-buckle involved.
 
I was just reading the article in the Blue Press by Duane Thomas. It reads as if it was written 20 years ago. Titled, "Why the 45 acp Failed". A title designed to irritate folks. The main point seems to be that 45acp is less popular than it used to be. As news it's 10 years old at least.

He explains that 1911s will not feed jhp ammo because it is shaped like a truncated cone bullet and 1911s choke on that shape. He's discovered that the folks who build bullets use ballistic gelatin to teest such. Thus modern 1911s are less reliable, he says...

Mistakes have been made in ammunition design,
contributing to the .45 ACP’s waning popularity as a
defense round. There’s now a serious emphasis on
designing bullets that expand reliably in ballistic gelatin. While that’s great per se, it’s led to most .45 hollowpoint loads today having a truncated cone bullet
shape, because, compared to a more generously
rounded, hardball-like ogive, with the same-size hollow cavity, with a TC profile the bullet walls are thinner. Unfortunately, the 1911 is notorious for not reliably feeding TC bullets
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He says that that currently 230 gr. ball is moving at 900 fps and the recoil is so strong that you lose the benefit of the moderate recoil of the 230 gr. at 830 fps. So the modern 1911 is less reliable and modern loads too heavy. This has taken the 1911 out of contention.

He has also discovered that a 1911 weighs more than a Glock 17.

It's an article written to attract attention, draw criticism and a response, and in that way get folks to read the mag. Same as putting a woman in a swim suit and a gun on the cover.

tipoc
 
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It's an article written to attract attention, draw criticism and a response, and in that way get folks to read the mag.
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I agree. And while I'm not a big fan of that approach, it's hard to argue that it's not effective for its intended purpose.
 
Dillon Precision is the organization that publishes the Blue Press which is primarily a catalog for their reloading products and shooting accessories. I'm inclined to give them a little leeway... :D
 
Blue Press

Right, the Blue Press is a catalog basically. The articles generally are short. The content is informational and superficial. How much detail can you cover in two pages? The information on the products is very good. That's the purpose of a catalog. Take what you need and leave the rest.

Addendum: Got into the most recent large issue of Blue Press. There is a rebuttal to the other article that was so controversial. My feeling are that Blue press is becoming a gun rag. Let's see how that plays out. When I read the rebuttal it was the having the feeling of being there before. I liked the Doc's portion. Still take what you need and leave the rest.
 
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