Blackwater...
- Thread starter Epyon
- Start date
They were used as domestic law enforcement after Katrina, which violates just about every belief of the founding fathers I can think of.
People who fight and kill for money have nothing in common with people who do so when necessary for love of country. Especially if they'll work for other governments as well.
People who fight and kill for money have nothing in common with people who do so when necessary for love of country. Especially if they'll work for other governments as well.
DonR101395
New member
A pretty good group of guys overall, but they have some knuckleheads just like any other business.
They're the Halliburton of security contractors. One of the 21st century robber barron's, getting rich off government connections and contracts. Without the government pouring cash into their operation, they'd be just another rent-a-cop company.
What we citizens will do about them once they're not authorized to kill anyone they wish in a foreign land will be a future problem.
I've gone back and forth on this issue, I have a hard time trying to pin it down. On the one hand I worry about having an armed para-military force being given authority over the rest of us when they are first and foremost answerable to their employers, not to us as the police are (supposed to be). I also worry about the standards of behavior when out of the country. People elsewhere don't care that they're a private security force, they see more Americans with guns and their actions represent all of us.
On the other hand I don't really know how they're behaving. I figure if these guys can provide trained, disciplined security for a reasonable price why not let these guys put their skills to use?
I'm not sure either way but I think it's better to be safe than sorry in this case. Private military organizations just put a bad feeling in my stomach.
Hey, here's an RKBA question.
So when we discuss what qualifies as "arms" someone inevitably brings up the question of tanks and warplanes. Can a company like Blackwater buy their own Abrams? What about an old Tomcat? Can they truly arm themselves as a military would or are they limited to the stuff the rest of us can get our hands on? That would certainly have an impact on my opinion of the issue.
On the other hand I don't really know how they're behaving. I figure if these guys can provide trained, disciplined security for a reasonable price why not let these guys put their skills to use?
I'm not sure either way but I think it's better to be safe than sorry in this case. Private military organizations just put a bad feeling in my stomach.
Hey, here's an RKBA question.
So when we discuss what qualifies as "arms" someone inevitably brings up the question of tanks and warplanes. Can a company like Blackwater buy their own Abrams? What about an old Tomcat? Can they truly arm themselves as a military would or are they limited to the stuff the rest of us can get our hands on? That would certainly have an impact on my opinion of the issue.Well, the Blackwater mercs wandering around after Katrina most certainly had "da switch" on their rifles. They're also a contractor for the Grizzly APCs that they're going to use in Iraq, so they definitely have them. Look at their website. Those are there...and they've toned the site down a bit. Look at it through the Wayback Machine from a couple years ago, and they were boasting of themselves as a "turnkey solution for fourth-generation warfare". 
I've always found it disturbing that a civilian private mercenary army is somehow exempt from laws prohibiting possession of Destructive Devices, and can parade around one of our cities with Class III weaponry. And, of course, due to being a corporation, all that, import new Class III, something absolutely forbidden to the average citizen.
That's not right.
I've always found it disturbing that a civilian private mercenary army is somehow exempt from laws prohibiting possession of Destructive Devices, and can parade around one of our cities with Class III weaponry. And, of course, due to being a corporation, all that, import new Class III, something absolutely forbidden to the average citizen.
That's not right.
They are a private corporation and as such should be allowed to operate while within US territory as they see fit within the limits of our laws.
If they choose to operate outside our territory and somebody has a beef with them take it up with them directly. I really don't care what they do as long as they are not violating US laws inside US borders. If somebody wishes to make a living as a mercenary then let them, it is none of my business. The path of hired gun, sword, club and rock is just about as old as that of hired "company".
If they choose to operate outside our territory and somebody has a beef with them take it up with them directly. I really don't care what they do as long as they are not violating US laws inside US borders. If somebody wishes to make a living as a mercenary then let them, it is none of my business. The path of hired gun, sword, club and rock is just about as old as that of hired "company".
And if one of the companies gets a little too zealous in their personal war on terror and blow up a mosque killing a bunch of civilians and muslim leaders...and it leads to another attack on our soil, what happens then?
No one outside of the US will give a damn that they are private contractors. They will be seen as a part of the American military because they will be more Americans with guns.
No one outside of the US will give a damn that they are private contractors. They will be seen as a part of the American military because they will be more Americans with guns.
Freedom_1st
Multiply registered, multiply banned troll.
US servicemen get taken care of too, the only people I know who fight for free are the guerilla/insurgent types who are ideologically motivated.
And even most of them get "paid" if they win. Revolutionary governments are full of revolutionaries.
The privitization of the American military seems to me like the natural trend for a government that does not properly pay or care for its troops. When Blackwater offers a considerable salary, decent benefits, and top of the line equipment, all the best fighters are going to migrate to Blackwater. The American military is left with the untrained masses.
I will also add:
If I am on public property or on my own property within the United States, and a Blackwater merc tried to order me to do something, I have absolutely no reason at all to comply.
If they attempted to coerce me with threat of deadly force, I would consider that criminal threatening with deadly force, and would react as I would to any criminal threatening me with a deadly weapon.
I suspect a lot of other people feel the same way.
If I am on public property or on my own property within the United States, and a Blackwater merc tried to order me to do something, I have absolutely no reason at all to comply.
If they attempted to coerce me with threat of deadly force, I would consider that criminal threatening with deadly force, and would react as I would to any criminal threatening me with a deadly weapon.
I suspect a lot of other people feel the same way.
You'd be surprised by the level of education and experience those untrained masses have, even before they joined the military. I realize it's all the rage to declare the military as being filled with the unintelligent, uneducated, socioeconomically disadvantaged downtrodden, but it's not the case. It hasn't been for a long time.
As for contractors, not all left the military to do this gig. Some left long ago and this is their way into the "big show." Others are on temporary leaves of absences from their normal jobs doing this to help others, help themselves, or both at the same time.
These PMCs tend to do the same jobs now as they did when they were referred to as executive protection or private security forces. They do it (for the most part) with the gear necessary to survive in the environment they find themselves in.
There are various laws that apply to them, regardless of who they work for, by virtue of their status as US citizens. So, the inference that they'll do anything for anyone anywhere isn't justified.
And loyalty to a paycheck rather than the country is a trait that is more and more seen in professions other than contractors. That's why we hear of individuals enforcing illegal or unconstitutional laws and who justify their actions by saying "it's my job to enforce it, not to determine it."
And loyalty to a paycheck rather than the country is a trait that is more and more seen in professions other than contractors. That's why we hear of individuals enforcing illegal or unconstitutional laws and who justify their actions by saying "it's my job to enforce it, not to determine it."
Black ops
They are mercenaries, and they took peoples weapons in Katrina from even the elite and retired LEO's during their house to house sweeps. Those people have not gotten those weapons back. I'm with manedwolf on this, if they ever come down our street, they will be fair game. I will defend the 2nd.
They are mercenaries, and they took peoples weapons in Katrina from even the elite and retired LEO's during their house to house sweeps. Those people have not gotten those weapons back. I'm with manedwolf on this, if they ever come down our street, they will be fair game. I will defend the 2nd.
Well, to be fair, that was mostly CHPs that took the guns from the NO citizens, but there there indeed blackwater mercs "keeping the peace" in public areas, and apparently intimidating people, especially around some of the shelter camps.
But yes, if they're ever used to try to coerce people on public property or out of your own home, they're criminals.
But yes, if they're ever used to try to coerce people on public property or out of your own home, they're criminals.
Our own police and National Guard were used to violate our rights after Katrina, should be disband them as well?
I don't know if it happenned but I would think the local authorities were able to deputize who they thought they needed. Did this happen with the Blackwater people? It would give them some legal authority (to abuse).
I don't know if it happenned but I would think the local authorities were able to deputize who they thought they needed. Did this happen with the Blackwater people? It would give them some legal authority (to abuse).