Black Person, Black Hoodie = Reasonable Suspicion?

I cannot get past the Dominion's force field - the lasers were set to destroy old Hondas with dented hoods and 256K miles on them.

San Antonio - joke. :D
 
I think it's kinda funny how there are are double standards in life. If a black guy dresses like what we perceive a thug should dress like according to what we see on TV, then its their fault for dressing that way. Then why do we get our dander up when some of the black community voice their opinion about distrusting the cops when a lot of cops they see on TV/ news clips are beating up black Americans? They are getting their info from the same place we get ours. Odd.
 
So there was a robbery. I remain of the opinion that, while there may have been sufficient justification for the initial stop, the perp was a MALE. The driver the cops thought was a male wearing a hoodie was a FEMALE. Once that was discovered, I can see no justification for what followed.
 
I wasnt there so I can only assume, but the woman probably wasn't dressed like a thug. Also, when theyre looking for a man, and its obviously a woman, more problems. And a felony stop where the cops DIDN'T call for back up? If it walks like a duck...
 
icedog88, black or white, or Asian, hoodies and baggy pants evoke thug. It isn't racially specific.

Skinhead tends to get more attention when worn by white teen and twenty-somethings. More of a racial factor, but not against people of color.

I'm sure if I said "dressed like trailer trash" you would also conjure an image that would fit.

Should style of dress matter? Maybe not. Does it affect how people perceive somebody? Most definitely.

Edit: in this specific case, I don't know how the woman presented aside from the hoodie, and the officer's actions seem suspect.
 
Lol, I'll have to remember to wear my suit to the gym instead of my sweats next time!:eek:

My point is that manner of dress is forced upon us visually through media outlets so we have a preconceived notion of what "thugs n gangstas" wear. Just like a preconceived notion that cops constantly harass blacks. We get that through the media as well. Doesn't make it right or for that matter, true. It "evokes" thug only because that's how we want to perceive it because it meshes with what we see on TV and that's comfortable.
 
Bernie Madoff wore a suit, should I assume every business man is going to defraud me of everything I own? I mean, following some peoples logic...

I think actions and mannerisms are far more indicative of a persons character. I wear baggy jeans and hoodies all the time, as well as usually having a buzzed hair cut. I'm also a law abiding citizen who is saving up to pay for the class to get my CCW permit. Can't always judge someone by how they look.
 
I was doing some antenna work for my Amateur radio station and had a really dark skinned individual helping me. He was wearing a dark hoodie and way down in my back yard.

One of my neighbors called the house to ask me if I knew there was a black man leaning against my walnut tree down in the back and wanted to know if I wanted him to shoot in the general direction to run him off.

I told him to wait until we were through working and I'd see if I could get the guy to run around back there to make it more interesting.

When my neighbor realized the guy was helping me he was flustered.

My really dark skinned friend didn't think it was very funny but the other guy helping and I thought it was a hoot.
 
No, i don't dress casually in times that don't call for it, but I also don't overdress when its unnecessary. There's a huge difference between not dressing for an appropriate situation and being judged based on casual appearance.
 
Ignoring the roots of your fashion choice is your option. But I bet you wouldn't wear what might be mistaken for colors in a hostile neighborhood.

Similarly, if your preferred style of dress matches that of the meth heads and street dealers where I live, don't be surprised if you start at a social disadvantage in the neighborhood.

Edit: FWIW, a lot of my friends in high school were punk fans and metalheads. Several in college were goths. They dressed as they did KNOWING that people would look at them in certain ways, and for them that was part of the fun.

They didn't try to claim people shouldn't notice; that would have been hypocritical.
 
I dont go out of my way to look thuggish. I wear clothes that are comfortable. By baggy I mean not straight leg or boot cut. I don't sag, or wear "colors" (do a little research, gang tactics regarding colors aren't the same as it was years ago) and i also avoid known bad areas.

Your peers who made the decision to stand out in their dress are completely different from me, as I'm not deviating from societal norms in my attire.

I'm 23 years old, and i live in the inner city. I dress in what I feel is comfortable and reasonably fashionable (i don't keep up on the latest trends, but I wear things most other people my age would). If someone thinks a young person wearing young peoples clothes automatically means said person is somehow gang affiliated or a thug, well excuse me but its high time they get a glass stomach so they can actually see with their head shoved that far up their own...
 
The NatureBoy said:
Black Person, black hoodie = reasonable suspicion? In America, yes unfortunately.
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No, not in America. Not legally, despite the truth of the statement that it happens. I already listed the criteria established by the Supreme Court. In order to initiate an investigatory stop, an officer must have a reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed. In a vacuum, despite the fact that robbers often wear hoodies, the fact is that other people often wear hoodies, too, so a hoodie could not be a sufficient "clearly articulable fact" to justify a stop.

The case in the original post, however, is different. It appears it was NOT in a vacuum. There actually had been a crime, right in the same area, and the robber was a black man wearing a black hoodie. Under those circumstances, stopping a black man who is wearing a black hoodie WOULD be justified under the Supreme Court guidelines.

But that's just the stop. The suspect was a black male wearing a hoodie. As soon as it was seen that the person the officers thought was a black man wearing a black hoodie was actually a woman, their justification evaporated. They made the stop. The person did NOT fit the criteria, so there was no "clearly artuculable fact" that could possibly have justified pulling her out of the car and handcuffing her.
 
The situation being discussed has nothing to do with gang colors from what I see. Nor has it to do with being in the "wrong" part of town. There are differing opinions on how people should or should not dress and how it's perceived. This is by itself a different topic. Yes there are times and places for certain dress. To assume someone dressed in baggy clothes is a thug is imo, short and narrow sighted. The same way flannel shirts and cammie hats shouldn't indicate trailer park folk. This "logic" is obviously flawed and at it's core, stereotypical, which hints at the mild base of some "isms". Black people, in a black part of town dressed as everyone else does, is not an indication of gangstas. Period. It's exactly that type of thinking that leads to profiling which, most people here acknowledge as wrong. Those who think this way, see nothing wrong with the stop.
 
I'm 23 years old, and i live in the inner city. I dress in what I feel is comfortable and reasonably fashionable (i don't keep up on the latest trends, but I wear things most other people my age would). If someone thinks a young person wearing young peoples clothes automatically means said person is somehow gang affiliated or a thug, well excuse me but its high time they get a glass stomach so they can actually see with their head shoved that far up their own...
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People are the beneficiaries of millenia of evolutionary development that rewarded humans whom noticed differences and were suspicious of the unknown or unfamiliar. While such a response does not always turn out to be warranted, it is still often a sound survival mechanism.
 
This does remind of a scanner call the other night. (police in our area still use open air waves)

Someone called in that three black men were driving through town.

That is someone called 911 for that. True no black people live in my town, however to call the police because some were driving through strikes me as crazy.
 
Based on the woman's statements, an internal affairs investigation is warranted ... for horrendously bad procedure.

When she drove to the side of the road, the police unit stopped behind her vehicle. After a few minutes, she said, the officer used a loudspeaker to tell her to put her hands outside the window.
...
She said an officer handcuffed her hands behind her back, and asked if anyone else was in the vehicle.
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With "a few minutes" between stopping an armed robbery suspect and giving instructions to the suspect, any officer who was not brain-dead would call in the stop, request backup, and run the vehicle's tags.

After being parked behind a suspect's vehicle for "a few minutes" any officers (there were two) who had not looked for other occupants in the vehicle would be certifiably brain-dead.

As to the woman's statement that she was unable to identify the officers by name or badge number, did they get in their cruiser and speed away in reverse so that the woman and her husband could not see the vehicle number or license plate?
 
stop

Not defending bad policing BUT 2 sides to every story. Not every mistake is a white on black crime or conspiracy. So they knew for absolutely sure that it was a man. The call said it was a man with a hoodie. Witnesses with guns pointed at them are the most reliable of all right? Was there any type vehicle described? Obviously the cop thought he saw someone with a hoodie as he pulled them over. When he got the suspected armed robber out it turned out to be a female. Had she been wearing a hoodie? was there one in the car? without looking would you be sure? Do you just say excuse me did you just rob someone and ditch your hoodie? What the hey? So you just relax and turn around and walk off. Maybe to be shot by the partner. They were doing their job. The best way maybe not- They had just stopped someone they suspected of committing an armed robbery and were prepared to do what was needed to bring them in .. oh, and hopefully go home afterwards.

No radio call. Anyone ever listened to a hot call on something like that when the bad guy/gal is suspected to be in a particular area. 127 we're in , 45 pulling down, 185 responding, check 185 .. 127 pull to main and 3rd, ..2nd, kilo 7 are you in route to stop on Marlboro,
When you look at the above look right after 127 pull to main and 3rd - see .....2nd could that have been the "bad call" where 145 "the bad call cops" called in they were out with 2 in gray sedan at king and 2nd.
 
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