BG's yell "POLICE!" as they kick down your door...

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Red Bull

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I was just watching "Cops" (the TV show) in Atlanta and they went on a call for "10 black males with shotguns in process of a home invasion".

The Police arrived after the BG's left (imagine that!). The victims were beaten severely. They said that the BG's yelled "POLICE!" at the front door and kiced it down. Then they beat the old lady, and held one gun to the young son and another gun to the stomach of a pregnant woman in the home, as they demanded all the valuables in the home.
Fortunately no one was killed.

It seems that it is becoming very common for BG's to imitate the Police dynamic entry methods and yell "POLICE!" as they kick down your door.
I have been hearing about this becoming more and more common since the Police are introducing these methods to the public. So far, this is the third State that I have heard of this happening, so it seems to be a widespread method of crime.

It has become so common for Police to kick down doors, often mistakenly the wrong house, that when someone yells "POLICE!" at your front door, you think it is really them, and you hesitate (your natural instinct as a good guy is to comply totally with Police).
This gives the BG's a distinct advantage as you hesitate and they gain control of your home in a matter of seconds.


What are we to do to combat this kind of thing?

If someone yells "POLICE!" and kicks down my door, do I have any choice but to assume that they are BG's first, and defend my home by instinct?

How is a good guy like me supposed to know the difference between a BG yelling "POLICE!" and a good police officer yelling "POLICE!"


Is there any choice these days in this situation but to shoot first and ask questions later?


I'll say this much: this has really made me rethink what I use for home defense. If PACKS of armed bad guys are going to be kicking down my door, suddenly the investment in a hi-capacity magazine for my home defense gun is a good idea. Seems like 14 rounds of .45 woul dbe a good thing to have at that moment, just to fight my way back to something bigger.




[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
More like a street sweeper or a class III weapon like a tommy gun or an M-16 perhaps.

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"The more perfect
civilisation is, the less occasion has it for government." Thomas Paine The Rights of Man 1792
 
You wouldn't want to ask Ismael Mena about this subject. Considering he's dead because of a skrooed up "No Knock" raid on his home.

What happened was a multitude of illegal acts, a lazy justice system and an idiot mayor.

First, an officer falsified information on the warrant for the raid, then they raided the wrong house; pounding in the door and seeing Mena holding his pistol up. Upon this sight, they opened fire on the man, killing him.

But, the sickest part about this atrocity was this:

Denver's mayor Webb said, "If Mister Mena didn't have a gun, he would be alive today."

NO! If the police had done their jobs correctly, Mister Mena would be alive today!

Sickening!


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Going Nowhere? Join Me There! Enjoy your stay!

[This message has been edited by Randall Flagg (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
Just one more example of the myriad problems with the "no-knock" method of law enforcement.

I'll go around with the LEOs on this board forever on this issue. No-knocks ought to be an extreme case where all the procedures have been followed to a T and all other methods have failed. Really bad criminals warrant this kind of action, but low-level crack dealers do not.

There was a story out of Denver where that PD had executed over 300 no-knocks in one year. End result, 2 convictions of low-life dips who were already involved in "the system" (one on probation and one on parole. Why not just have the parole/probation officer pick up a phone and say "come in, we need to talk"?) and one dead homeowner who thought his house was being broke into. Turns out they had bad info.

Yah, I feel LOT'S safer.
 
AND, not to mention the fact that reports of corruption, "Missing (Stolen)" money, drugs and firearms from the evidence lockers, and a slew of other questionable things that seemed to pop up after Mena's murder.

Someone once said, "Corruption always starts at the top."

Oh, mayor Webb, it's time to get your lazy butt out of that office!

Did I mention that right before Columbine, Webb used $6,000.00 of taxpayer's money to place a full-page ad in the local paper stating his sorrows and fears if a statewide concealed carry bill went into effect?

Did I also mention all the times his criminal SON was busted for burglary, assault and robbery?

Yep! it "Always starts at the top."

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Going Nowhere? Join Me There! Enjoy your stay!
 
Let's get back to the topic at hand for a second. I agree that no-knock warrants have very little place in law enforcement. But the fact remains, that police will continue to use these kind of tactics, and so will the bad guys.

So what can we do, in a tactical sense?? Are there any useful cues to distinguish a fake raid from a real one? Perimeter defenses?

Anyone have any input??

Thanks,
Chris

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"TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box
 
If some wants to come into my house, all they have to do is knock on the door. I'll let them in if they do, provided they're in uniform.
These so called "dynamic entries" are uncalled for and put everyone involved at risk unnecessarily.
 
To back up G50AE's post:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[/quote]

A no-knock is as unreasonable as it gets. Period.
 
Well, being that I'm deaf...all I'm gonna hear is the door crashing open, shaking the house and some yelling...especially if it's at night or I'm in another room. I will start shooting and taking evasive action.

They wanna arrest me or look for somethin? Knock on the door and when I answer tell me the problem. I always co-operate when someone is cooperating back.

Who is it on the board that says "Go Ugly Early"?

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Satanta, the Whitebear
Sat's Realm: http://SatantasRealm.tripod.com/Entrypage/entrypage.html

My Disability petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/DisbHelp/petition.html
 
The Question is 'What to Do'.
My answer: Since neither I nor anyone domiciled with me has ever broken any laws, there could be no justification for any attempt by police to enter my home by force: THEREFORE, I assume that any and all such attempts are felonious, and will be answered as such, with force major.
One of the advantages to being an old fart with an empty nest and not a hell of a lot to lose, is that you can make choices like this, and damn the outcome.

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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
 
I don't give a rat's tail if you yell "GOD" when you're breaking down my front door. If I'm awake "it's hammer time"! Everything I've got's loaded and waiting for just such an occasion. If you are a legit LEO you will knock and produce a search warrent. If you don't, I may go to jail or be killed, but you better pray you aren't the first few to come through the door. My home is my castle, I take home invasion seriously and have hearing loss. I will exercise my rights as a Citizen of the United states. This goes for anyone stupid enough to break into my house. NC law allows me to shoot you while you are breaking in. THAT'S THE LAW!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Christopher II:
Let's get back to the topic at hand for a second. I agree that no-knock warrants have very little place in law enforcement. But the fact remains, that police will continue to use these kind of tactics, and so will the bad guys.

So what can we do, in a tactical sense?? Are there any useful cues to distinguish a fake raid from a real one? Perimeter defenses?

Anyone have any input??

Thanks,
Chris
[/quote]

Jack Booted Thugs, or Home Invasion artists a threat (same thing anyway) ?

No problemo!

Think Dogs, Shotgun, and Claymores.

Dont ask questions first , they sure as hell dont!

Better to be tried by 12, then carried by 6.
 
I keep a 75 round drum of 7.62x39 just in case of such a breaking and entering situation. They will come in as a pack and leave as a pack. I have a few LEOs as friends and they all know that if they bust down my door for any reason, if I don't immediately recognize them I will shoot them, and shoot them a lot. I will use bullets their vests and helmets cannot stop, and I won't be wrong in doing so. I respect the LEOs that respect me, and I believe in this country. They all know with a little respect I will cooperate fully. There are some cases where a no knock warrant should be issued, like where a suspect is quite likely to flush drugs at the scene, but frankly in such situations there are other options they could exercise but don't, such as sewer monitoring. I think it should take a jury issued warrant to do a no knock raid.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
The truth is, there may be no way to tell. They might have the same snazy vest that say POLICE on them. Only YOU can decide what to do.
May you decide correctly.
 
Good to hear form you RED.

Gotta go with slabesides there is no reason to be entering my residence and especially a no knock.

Solution is to insatll a spiked pit trap inside your front door with the activation lever down the hall like I have in my place. ;)
 
As many critters buy a less-than-100-dollar band uniform and gain entry to a house that way, as do the ones that kick in the door yelling, "Police!", you just don't hear about the ones in full dress uniform on the Nightly News.

LawDog
 
This topic is continually coming up on TFL and I wish we would get off it. The answers that some people post are perfect fodder for the media to portray all gunowners as lunatics waiting to shoot someone. Guys, this is not helping us.

Some guys keep posting on these threads if you want to arrest me or search come and knock on my door and talk to me/show documentation. I have a news flash, not everybody in our society is going to do this. Some will hide/run/barricade/shoot through the door etc.
 
Like I said mrat, there are SOME cases in which a no-knock is ok, but I think a 6 man jury should make the decision, even if they are a professional jury....

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
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