Best use of Pistol Powders at Hand

[Frankly]

Which burn rate chart?

The chart I have been using generically comes up in any Google search. I hadn’t even thought about its origin until you raised the question, but my impression from its dominance has been it was the “go to” chart. Upon further research, I see it's based on Hodgdon's chart.

Your point is well taken that powders could potentially share the same spot on a numeric burn rate sequence, thus the importance of a horizontal axis. Hadn’t thought about that either. I pulled up the Western Powders chart you recommended and immediately got a broader perspective. I am not so sure they have their comparative data right though. By all accounts, Silhouette IS the discontinued Winchester Action Pistol (WAP), yet their chart shows them at staggered levels of burn rate.

The Western Powders chart shows SOME powders at starkly different comparative burn rates than the chart I have been going by. This explains why you were grouping powders together that I was seeing as grouped differently.

Time to start loading.

Yes, I am ready—well, sorta. Still gotta get my loading station set up. For my bench, I have a sturdy old desktop with a formica finish. I bought some 4x4s and cut them to about 42 inch length for legs, so I am looking at a standing height station unless I use a bar stool. Any sage advice on choosing a location, or is it simply “any location the wife allows is a good one?” Any other caveats (things I will look back upon and wish I’d done different) in the initial setup of my loading station?

 

[sawdustdad]

I've enjoyed the exchange between Nick and Frankly, and learned some stuff in the process. Thanks to both of you for taking the time to ask and answer so many good questions. We all learn when such knowledge is shared.

Any sage advice on choosing a location, or is it simply “any location the wife allows is a good one?” Any other caveats (things I will look back upon and wish I’d done different) in the initial setup of my loading station?

Setting up a reloading bench is a very personal thing. I like to sit in a comfortable chair, at normal sitting height, with enough clearance to keep my legs out of the way of the press handle. This puts me a little off to the side, but must be able to feed the press from both sides--brass and bullets.

This means the bench/table height needs to be 29-30 inches--normal office desk height.

I tried a standing bench, (36 inch height) but I find it tiring to stand for an hour or more and my back doesn't like the bending to actuate the press. Maybe a taller bench, say 42 inches, would help, but I haven't tried that.

A tall stool is not at all comfortable for more than about 15 minutes, as my ample backside exceeds the diameter of the stool seat. I find the best seat is a stenographer's or typist's office chair--one without arms, so I can swing my legs off the side to avoid the press arm.

As to location, it needs to be conditioned and comfortable--heated or A/C'd--so that you can focus on the work and not distracted by the temp. If using an electronic scale, the area needs to be draft free. In my workshop, my bench is underneath a ceiling air register, and if the air handler is running it disturbs the scale.

My workshop has a concrete floor, and making a mess is not a concern-if I were in the house, I'd be looking for a basement office/workroom location without carpet. I'll listen to the radio or stereo but I don't watch TV while loading. My only company is my German Shepard dog, and an occasional few minutes of attention to him is my only distraction. He never criticizes my technique or asks me to clean up my mess. The wife almost never enters the shop. She's allergic to sawdust.

Of course, we all have to make do with the situation we have. YMMV.

 

[Jim Watson]

1. I would not brag about my powder inventory locally. You have more than most fire codes allow without a dedicated magazine.

2. There is a tremendous overlap in powder applications. You would do better to look at actual tested loading data than poring over arbitrary burn rate charts. Understand that burn rate charts are ordinal. Powder no 99 may be 1% slower than 98 but 20% faster than no 100. Or the other way around.

I have recently rediscovered Bullseye. I use it mostly for midrange .45 ACP but it is usable for a lot of other loads. If I go through the 700X left over from my shotgunnning days and my remaining HP38 before HP38 supplies are resumed, I had just as well standardize on Bullseye, of which I have a fair supply.
I only ever loaded one can of Unique, finding Win 231 (HP38) better for my uses.
HS6 gives good velocity and easy metering but it is the only powder I have ever had to coke up a gun to the point of malfunction in one day's shooting.

I have no experience with Silhouette.
A friend bought CFE-P when 231 got scarce and does ok with it at similar velocity.

 

[Nick_C_S]

This is my load bench - wedged in the garage (per the wife's direction ). 8.4 sq/ft of pure freedom. It's very modest, but it's portable and does its job well.

When I first started loading (June '84), my press was mounted on a picnic table. As you would imagine, that didn't last long. With the help of my cousin we built this bench in July '84 - and I'm still using it.

It was made with a single 8'x4' sheet of 1-1/8" tongue-n-groove plywood - cut into thirds. Two of the three sheets were bound together for the top. The remaining sheet was used for the deck below. The framework is mostly a hodgepodge scrap wood of 2"x 4", 2"x 6", 4"x 4", and 4"x 6". To this day, I still can't believe I did so well designing it, as a novice-loading 22 year-old arrogant punk. Fast forward 30 years, and I still wouldn't change a thing about it.

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(Pic is about two years old.)

 

[Frankly]

I would not brag about my powder inventory locally...

Point well taken. Hadn’t thought about that, so thanks. Guess once I figure out which ones I will use most, I should sell some off, eh?

You would do better to look at actual tested loading data than poring over arbitrary burn rate charts.

At this stage, it is useful to look at both. I perceive that burn rates and loading data are inextricably linked as they give context to one another. If your more salient point is that burn rates are imprecise and insufficient by themselves in gauging the relative usefulness of different powders, yes, I picked up on that more than a few replies ago. My focus now is on fine tune my understanding of it all…

I have both the Lee and Lyman books and have studied load data from online sources as well. Do you have any recommendations for additional sources of load data?

I have recently rediscovered Bullseye. I use it mostly for midrange .45 ACP but it is usable for a lot of other loads.

As someone else said, .45 seems to be the wild card. I would just as happily load it with the more economical Bullseye if it produces rounds appropriate for SD. Does it?

A friend bought CFE-P when 231 got scarce and does ok with it at similar velocity.

In what?

 

[Jim Watson]

As someone else said, .45 seems to be the wild card. I would just as happily load it with the more economical Bullseye if it produces rounds appropriate for SD.

Look in Lyman. A top load of Bull will get a 200 gr Gold Dot to 942 fps, which is about all the fun I want and all the defense I think I need. Note that HS6 will deliver a whopping 9 fps higher velocity and Unique is actually slower, as is Win 231 which I normally favor for medium loads.

I think the bulkier Unique will be safer for the beginner because a double charge will be immediately obvious, but you can do a lot more with Bullseye than some people think.


The guy I referred to shifting from W231 to CFE-P is loading mostly 9mm with it.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Bullseye has a long kinship with 45 ACP. The two together is a bit like chocolate n peanut butter. In 45 ACP, Bullseye can push bullets into some respectable velocities.

(Unique is) safer for the beginner because a double charge will be immediately obvious

Unique will definitely have more fill volume and a double charge will be more obvious. And I understand this conventional wisdom. But being a study in human nature, I know it is the tenured loader who is more likely to let a double charge go unnoticed. The beginner loader is the one who tends to be more conscientious and not skip safety steps.

Complacency is the devil who brings with it the dreaded double-charge; not inexperience.

 

[Frankly]

Nick, just to let ya know, I'm taking a break from building my bench as I type this... will send pics when it's done. So far the only parts I've had to buy are the redwood 4x4s for the legs. Everything else is stuff I had laying around from abandoned projects, so it might look kinda hodge-podge when it's done, but hey... right?

 

[Nick_C_S]

Hodgepodge is just fine by me. My hypocrisy only goes so far

 

[sixgunluv]

REloading

Still on the topic of reloading... I found some "Zero" brand bullets for the 9mm. Have been looking for something cheaper than XTP's and wanted a 147 that was JHP and not FMJ HP like MG's. Anywho i didn't know much about Zero's but from what i read they are a jacketed bullet and many shooters seem to like them. Looks similar to a Winchester White Box 147 gr JHP to me.
So....i loaded up a bunch. Here's some of my loads.
147gr MG CMJ, 115gr MG FMJ EB, 147gr Zero JHP, 147gr XTP, 115gr MG FMJ HP
All loaded with HS-6, CCI primers and a single stage RCBS Press. The far right round is the only fresh case...Starline Brass, loaded up nice and purdy just for looks.
The CMJ's i don't really care for, the next round MG 115 FMJ EB is my go to practice/plinker. The others are for SD...or just to look at. ('.')
[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sixgunluvr/media/IMG_0384.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[Nick_C_S]

sixgunluv: Did you notice your 147 XTP - the fourth one from the left - has a case split?

And yes, HS-6 is right at home in 9mm - especially with the heavy bullets.

 

[sixgunluv]

pic

Nick CS,
Case isn't split.....just looks that way in the lighting of the pic(it's actually just a very light scratch from chambering). You know how generic pics are, and this was taken on my phone. Cases are all good shape.

 

[sixgunluv]

Reloading

Checked my specs with this new bullet....first thing i did was push it into a fired case and push down in to my barrel and measure(my version of plunk test). I got 1.20 and approx magazine limit of 1.15 So instead of loading at 1.125-1.13 like i normally do, i decided to load long after hearing many people try to start long. I finalized on 1.135 Other factory 147 JHP i had mic'd at 1.12-1.125 I still don't fully understand why many recommend loading long other than to try to have lower pressure. Anywho my final load is ready for the range.
Comments on reason for starting long....anyone.
1.135-1.139 OAL
Zero 147 gr JHP
HS-6 Powder 4.6 gr

 

[skizzums]

sorry, I will admit that I didn't read the whole thread. but hs-6 makes an awesome power for 147gr 9m, extremely accurate. it also tops for velocity for lightweight 9mm defensive rounds, really incredible velocity, although case capacity can be an issue.

as long as your 9mm has no issues setting off mag primers, I recommend using them with a full case of hs-6 for more reliable ignition and better consistency shot to shot, and a moderate crimp

 

[Frankly]

I like it when materials can be repurposed rather than recycled...

I bought the redwood four-bys of course for this project, but the other items were leftover. The reinforced plywood squares were part of a project long abandoned and had been taking up valuable real estate for several years...

Connect it all together...

And this is just a mock up. I salvaged this old desktop years ago thinking I would have use for it some day. Right now it's just sitting on there. Not sure whether I want to center it as pictured or align flush to front (leaving about 8 inch overhang to the rear). Advice?

BTW: desktop dimensions are 3' by 6'... support top dimensions are 4' by approx 30 inches... as currently mocked up, distance from floor to desk top is 43 inches... any suggestions before I finalize the assembly are more than welcome...

 

[sawdustdad]

Frankly, looks plenty strong. Only thing I'd add is some diagonal bracing to prevent racking. Maybe a flat panel between the legs across the back, and a mid-shelf to round out the project. The flat panel between the rear legs will significantly increase the rigidity.

 

[Frankly]

hs-6 makes an awesome power for 147gr 9m, extremely accurate

For my 9mm needs, I've stockpiled something like 9,000 124 grain Nosler JHPs... that's what I will be loading for the foreseeable future. Would you say HS-6 is a top notch powder for that bullet in terms of accuracy?

PS... maybe it was 7,000. It all becomes a blur...

 

[Frankly]

Maybe a flat panel between the legs across the back

Didn't have anything like that on hand, so I went this route:

I still need to beef it up under where the press will be mounted... still thinking about the shelf idea; of course, I could always add that later.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Looks good Frankly. Lookin' good.

 

[Frankly]

My wife decided the desktop would be put to better use as the sewing table she says I am going to build for her.

So this is what I ended up with, a few embellishments later.

Thanks everyone for feedback on my original post. I now have some new questions but will start a new thread for them.

My best,
Frankly