Best use of Pistol Powders at Hand
- Thread starter Frankly
- Start date
New wrinkle: On my way home from work today, I stopped by Sportsman's Warehouse and left with an 8-pound jug of Unique. They are playing the limits game and said they would be putting more out tomorrow. So I am wondering... is this just more of what I already have, or will this better suit some of my calibers? Hoping to get some quick recommendations on whether I should try to get more tomorrow... thanks in advance. 
Umm, yes; insomuch that it is a medium speed powder. Like HS-6, I have extensive experience with it. Heh - I go down this road with serious trepidation
: it is a lot like HS-6, except it is a little more energetic. It also doesn't meter as well. It has a reputation of running dirty - some even call it "flaming dirt" - which I find rather amusing 
It just so happens that I spent some time at the range today. I was chronographing some production level competition rounds for my Model 67 38 Special. After chronoghraphing, I shot a box (50) of some 158 LSWC's with 5.2gn of Unique under them. It's a +P level round that has a really nice thump to them. Sure were fun to shoot - and accurate. Great round. I loaded them a year ago (exactly a year ago, actually 2/9/14) and kinda sorta forgot about them. Found 'em in the closet, so I took them to the range - just for the heckofit. I'll be loading more of those.
Anyway, on the good side, you'll be hard pressed to find a more versatile powder than Unique. I'm very pleased with the stuff. It does particularly well pushing 125's in 357 Magnum. They're a little short of full power, but still have plenty of roar to them.
Sounds like sound advice… I will try to get more.
But simply to say its a medium speed powder seems a broad statement. Obviously there are no precise dividing points between fast, medium, and slow...
I see a pattern in that each company has its own series of powders, and, assuming they are not duplicating purpose within their own product line, their powders are spread across the burn rate chart in groupings along with all their competitors...
HP-38/w231, Unique, Universal, etc., comprise one such grouping, as I am seeing it. HS-6 and other powders from its competitors seem to comprise yet another distinct grouping, with its center about a dozen spots lower on the chart. Should I not take away from this that categories of powders are more finely delineated than just to say they are fast, medium, or slow?
You seem to be putting HS-6 and Unique in the same category, and I am wondering whether they may be more distinct... ?
Just trying to get a grasp on how to categorize powders... or am I still looking at this all wrong?
One more question. I spoke with some reloaders (customers) while I was at Sportman’s Warehouse who told me 2400 would be a better choice than H110 for high end magnum loads as H110 doesn’t like to be loaded anywhere below max while the 2400 gives you some range and forgiveness… Any thoughts on that?
As usual, thanks for your insights!
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It is. I had a few more helpful thoughts for my last post, but got pulled away and had to wrap it up. I'll try to expand a little now.
I think most loaders categorize powders in their minds. Speed range is the most important attribute; and thus, the most common way to categorize them.
I have "fast" "medium" and "slow" in my mind. Of the 10 powders I use (own/load/shoot only pistol) they go like this, in order of speed, based on my experience:
Fast: Nitro 100, Bullseye, W231/HP-38, AA#2.
Medium: AA#5, Unique, HS-6, Power Pistol.
Slow: AA#7, W296.
I also view them in terms of "semi-auto" or "revolver" powders - but this is much more gray and there is a lot of crossover. Basically, because of the large cases of the revolvers I shoot (38/357, 44S,44M), easily ignited powders tend to be better suited for revolvers. For revolvers, that would be Nitro 100 (new to me; only use for 38 target), Bullseye, Unique, Power Pistol. W296 is hard to ignite, but I use it only for full-power magnum rounds where the powder fills the case and a magnum primer is used - so it is just one of many exceptions. I prefer to use AA2 or semi-autos, but it makes excellent 38 target rounds too.
For semi-autos, I use AA2, AA5, HS-6, & AA7. But again, these can also be used for revolvers in the right conditions. I also sometimes use Unique and Power Pistol for semi's. Bullseye (one of my "revolver" powders) makes great 9mm ammo with light bullets; and it approaches legendary status in 45ACP. Speaking of 45ACP, I use my "revolver powder" W231 for it more than any other. Like I said, exceptions abound.
This is all just a sample of my thinking based on 3 decades experience. But it kind of illustrates how powders can be loosely categorized.
I do in terms of speed range. They are both "medium" speed powders in my mind. Unique is a little faster though. But the biggest difference is that Unique is big and fluffy and likes to ignite; and HS-6 is thick and dense and doesn't like to ignite. That why I tend to use Unique for cavernous revolver cases, and HS-6 for tight semi-auto cases.
I think that they are correct insomuch that 2400 is a little more versatile than H110/W296. So their logic is basically correct.
But. . .
When I go to load ammo for this purpose (full power magnum) there is no need for versatility. I'm going full-power. Once you get into that realm, go big or go home; and W296 is second to none in this application. If I want to load "slightly-off-full-power," and I do sometimes (for magnum level rounds, but better suited for shorter barrels), I reach for Power Pistol (due to it's high-energy), or Unique - if the bullet being used is light. (AA7 would be a good choice too, but I reserve AA7 for hot 10mm Auto rounds.).
So that's my loading style and logic behind it. I also freely admit to being a "fast powder centric" loader. I try to use the fastest powder possible that will serve the application. The beauty of being a handloader is you get to pick and choose your loading style. And learning is half the fun. Enjoy the ride. It's fun and rewarding.
Consider this grouping on the burn rate chart:
13. Alliant Bullseye
14. Hodgdon TITEGROUP
Then this one:
28. Hodgdon HP-38
29. Winchester 231
31. Alliant Unique
Then this one:
42. Hodgdon HS-6
44. Ramshot Silhouette
45. (From all I have read, I believe CFE Pistol would reside hereabouts were it not too new to appear on the chart at all.)
I am confused that you put Bullseye and HP-38/Winchester 231 in the “fast” category, but relegate Unique to the “medium” category alongside Hodgdon HS-6. Unique is right beside Hp-38/W231 in burn rate, while Bullseye and HP-38 are not even close to one another on the chart. When you say "speed," you do mean burn rate, correct?
Full power magnum loads are not something I would shoot for (pardon the pun). Factory bear loads are a bit agonizing after a couple dozen rounds, and given the factory's need to err on the side of caution, I doubt those are anywhere near full power. I don't expect to face any enraged elephants, so there's no point loading any stouter than those brutal factory loads...
By the way, the plot thickens. On my way home today I stopped by Sportsman’s Warehouse hoping to get some more Unique. Unfortunately, they had no more of it—but I did come home with an 8-pound jug of Bullseye… now I have some “fast” powder, no?
Thanks again for your insights… soakin’ it all up… keep it comin…
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Ask 100 people to categorize 10 powders by speed, you'll get 100 different answers. How you have your powders listed are close enough from my observation to not dispute it.
Indeed you do have some fast powder now. Without a doubt. Considering what you already have, I would say you did better than bringing home Unique.
Tough to beat Bullseye for good, consistent burns in a whole bunch of applications. You're not going to set any bullet speed records with it, but it can make a ton of different light-to-medium power rounds for many chamberings. I use it for competition 38 target rounds - where it absolutely positively must sail through the target dead center. Whether loaded light or loaded up a bit, it seems to always burn complete and consistent. Neat stuff.
On the down side - it's "residuey." It leaves a lot of super fine, almost "oily" in texture residue. It cleans up easy enough, but it kinda makes a mess of things. Oh well. I'm good with it.
Indeed you do have some fast powder now. Without a doubt. Considering what you already have, I would say you did better than bringing home Unique.
Tough to beat Bullseye for good, consistent burns in a whole bunch of applications. You're not going to set any bullet speed records with it, but it can make a ton of different light-to-medium power rounds for many chamberings. I use it for competition 38 target rounds - where it absolutely positively must sail through the target dead center. Whether loaded light or loaded up a bit, it seems to always burn complete and consistent. Neat stuff.
On the down side - it's "residuey." It leaves a lot of super fine, almost "oily" in texture residue. It cleans up easy enough, but it kinda makes a mess of things. Oh well. I'm good with it.
Sent my wife back and she got the remaining 4 1-pounders, so make that 12 pounds of Bullseye. Wish I'd had your opinion before yesterday. They had the Bullseye then and I could now be sitting on more than 20 pounds, but I went for the Unique because another customer advised me to...
[QUOTEO]On the down side - it's "residuey." It leaves a lot of super fine, almost "oily" in texture residue. It cleans up easy enough, but it kinda makes a mess of things. Oh well. I'm good with it.[/QUOTE]
Our guns get a bath in CLP after every shooting, so I don't concern myself with that sort of thing. Until you've cleaned my son's S&W .22 revolver following a trip to the desert, don't talk to me about "dirty." When the shells won't eject anymore or the lead starts breaking apart on its way through the crudified barrel--fun's over.
Our guns get a bath in CLP after every shooting, so I don't concern myself with that sort of thing. Until you've cleaned my son's S&W .22 revolver following a trip to the desert, don't talk to me about "dirty." When the shells won't eject anymore or the lead starts breaking apart on its way through the crudified barrel--fun's over.
Yeah, that'd go over well at my house. I can't even imagine what the look on my wife's face would be if I told her "Sweetie go to Sportsmen's and get the last 4lbs of Bullseye for me, okay?" Heh. Yeah-no.
That's a lot of Bullseye. About 28,000 rounds of 38 target ammo
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WVMountaineer
New member
You've got what you got. You can use it. Her's my way of classifying things for my simple mind. It is a generalization but, it is pretty much accurate in everything and a good guideline for me. It might help next time you come across powder and have no way of confirming load data before buying.
The bigger bore stuff needs a slower powder with the heavy bullets, due to the case dynamics, to maximize velocity and the effectiveness of the round. Just the opposite in the smaller calibers. Faster with the lighter bullets is where maximum is. So no matter how you break it down or which brands you use, to maximize each cartridge, there are no three best choices for the options you have. Because fast powder under heavy bullets exceed Spec pressure while not reaching maximum velocity's.
If you are looking for an example of one or two powders to work well in all the cartridges you have, Unique or Power Pistol is going to be hard to beat. Both work well for the 38 , you can even use them for 357 Mag loads and 44 special loads. Both do well with the 9mm and 40 cal too. And in the 45 acp.
I realize these powders aren't the ones you have. But, they are what I'm very familiar with. You have some of the same diversity in the selection of powder you currently have if you are flexible enough to diversify bullet weights. Meaning shoot lighter bullets in the bigger bores and, heavier for caliber or ideal bullet in the smaller bore stuff. and realize that it is going to take this sacrifice to get the most bang for the buck that you have already spent.
It is all about bullet weight and cartridge dimensions when you are trying to load 6 or 7 things with three or four powders. You are going to sacrifice the most ideal bullet weights or velocity's in some to be able to load them all with such few choices. It is just the way it is. I hope you find the loads you want with what you have. If you don't, take the powder you can't use to a gun show and trade or sell it. Then buy more appropriate stuff for the calibers you aren't willing to sacrifice the best all around loads. God Bless
The bigger bore stuff needs a slower powder with the heavy bullets, due to the case dynamics, to maximize velocity and the effectiveness of the round. Just the opposite in the smaller calibers. Faster with the lighter bullets is where maximum is. So no matter how you break it down or which brands you use, to maximize each cartridge, there are no three best choices for the options you have. Because fast powder under heavy bullets exceed Spec pressure while not reaching maximum velocity's.
If you are looking for an example of one or two powders to work well in all the cartridges you have, Unique or Power Pistol is going to be hard to beat. Both work well for the 38 , you can even use them for 357 Mag loads and 44 special loads. Both do well with the 9mm and 40 cal too. And in the 45 acp.
I realize these powders aren't the ones you have. But, they are what I'm very familiar with. You have some of the same diversity in the selection of powder you currently have if you are flexible enough to diversify bullet weights. Meaning shoot lighter bullets in the bigger bores and, heavier for caliber or ideal bullet in the smaller bore stuff. and realize that it is going to take this sacrifice to get the most bang for the buck that you have already spent.
It is all about bullet weight and cartridge dimensions when you are trying to load 6 or 7 things with three or four powders. You are going to sacrifice the most ideal bullet weights or velocity's in some to be able to load them all with such few choices. It is just the way it is. I hope you find the loads you want with what you have. If you don't, take the powder you can't use to a gun show and trade or sell it. Then buy more appropriate stuff for the calibers you aren't willing to sacrifice the best all around loads. God Bless
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LOL -- well Nick, I could spin a yarn about my little lady's sense of duty that would make Brian Williams proud, but the truth is any time I get her to do something she doesn't see as a benefit to herself, it involves some sort of exchange of value. There is often chocolate involved, sometimes physical acts---this time some of both... I chose not to tell you the whole story.
Machineguntony
New member
A really good use of any remaining pistol powder would be to sell them to me.
powders
HS-6
"Because it's a low-energy propellant, HS-6 has the desirable trait of being very forgiving. Its pressure curve is predictable and is not "spikey" like a high-energy propellant would be (like Power Pistol, for instance). This characteristic fits well with a novice loader. In short, HS-6 is great for beginner loaders. Nick CS "
I concur.......HS-6 is my favorite for 9mm and .44 magnum.
HS-6
"Because it's a low-energy propellant, HS-6 has the desirable trait of being very forgiving. Its pressure curve is predictable and is not "spikey" like a high-energy propellant would be (like Power Pistol, for instance). This characteristic fits well with a novice loader. In short, HS-6 is great for beginner loaders. Nick CS "
I concur.......HS-6 is my favorite for 9mm and .44 magnum.
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So I now have these five powders in order of their position on the burn rate chart:
13. Bullseye
31. Unique
42. HS-6
44. Silhouette
45. CFE Pistol
My observations:
Bullseye is about the fastest powder on the chart without getting into the dedicated shotgun powders. Unique is waaaay below it, so seemingly in a completely different category. The remaining three are at least one full “group” down from Unique in burn rate so they are in some way distinct from Unique in their intended use.
My current understanding:
Bullseye is great for ultra low velocity target loads in pretty much any of my handgun calibers. Probably not a good choice for SD loads because it would lack sufficient velocity for appropriate penetration and expansion. Bullseye is, by far, the most economical of the powders within the limits of its uses.
Unique will work well in just about ANYTHING, but only up to moderate loads. Has potential in SOME calibers, but not others, for SD loads.
HS-6 is lazy, which is a good characteristic in high pressure applications such as 9mm, 40, and 357/44 magnum…
Silhouette and CFE Pistol are nearly identical powders. Nobody here has witnessed to any personal experience with them, so I can only go on the manufacturers’ claims. Apparently they are recommended for 9mm, 40, and 45acp. I don’t understand why 45acp, as it is a low pressure round versus the other two being high pressure... seems to contradict the theory that certain powders are better for low pressure rounds while others are preferred for high pressure rounds. ?????
Okay, so the takeaway from all this is still convoluted in my mind. Clearly I can load 38 and 48 special “plinking” rounds for the rest of my days with my current stash of Bullseye. I presume where the Unique best fits in is for SD level rounds in those same calibers? The HS-6 then becomes my preferred choice for moderate magnum rounds. The Silhouette/CFE seem to be intended for 9 and 40. I am still lost on which of these powders would be best suited for SD rounds in 45 acp…
The best powders for maximum magnum rounds are at the slow end of the burn rate chart and very uneconomical to load. That's fine. I really don't need maximum magnum loads so I won't even go there....
I look forward to hearing where I have it wrong/right so far…
Thanks all.
13. Bullseye
31. Unique
42. HS-6
44. Silhouette
45. CFE Pistol
My observations:
Bullseye is about the fastest powder on the chart without getting into the dedicated shotgun powders. Unique is waaaay below it, so seemingly in a completely different category. The remaining three are at least one full “group” down from Unique in burn rate so they are in some way distinct from Unique in their intended use.
My current understanding:
Bullseye is great for ultra low velocity target loads in pretty much any of my handgun calibers. Probably not a good choice for SD loads because it would lack sufficient velocity for appropriate penetration and expansion. Bullseye is, by far, the most economical of the powders within the limits of its uses.
Unique will work well in just about ANYTHING, but only up to moderate loads. Has potential in SOME calibers, but not others, for SD loads.
HS-6 is lazy, which is a good characteristic in high pressure applications such as 9mm, 40, and 357/44 magnum…
Silhouette and CFE Pistol are nearly identical powders. Nobody here has witnessed to any personal experience with them, so I can only go on the manufacturers’ claims. Apparently they are recommended for 9mm, 40, and 45acp. I don’t understand why 45acp, as it is a low pressure round versus the other two being high pressure... seems to contradict the theory that certain powders are better for low pressure rounds while others are preferred for high pressure rounds. ?????
Okay, so the takeaway from all this is still convoluted in my mind. Clearly I can load 38 and 48 special “plinking” rounds for the rest of my days with my current stash of Bullseye. I presume where the Unique best fits in is for SD level rounds in those same calibers? The HS-6 then becomes my preferred choice for moderate magnum rounds. The Silhouette/CFE seem to be intended for 9 and 40. I am still lost on which of these powders would be best suited for SD rounds in 45 acp…
The best powders for maximum magnum rounds are at the slow end of the burn rate chart and very uneconomical to load. That's fine. I really don't need maximum magnum loads so I won't even go there....
I look forward to hearing where I have it wrong/right so far…
Thanks all.
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Which burn rate chart? Burn rates are inexact and charts vary. Myself, I like the one on Accurate's site for two reasons: 1), I like the way it's not just numbered 1 through whatever. It is two dimensional with relative speed (burn rate) vertically; but it also has like-speed powders horizontally. 2), It seems to most closely depict my personal observations over the decades. But that's just my personal preference. Other loaders have others. Try not to get too wrapped up in burn rates, charts, etc. They are a guideline. Variables abound. Powders will behave differently in certain applications. Nothing is solid and tangible when it comes to burn rates.
Yep. And speaking of "dedicated shotgun powders," I have been experimenting with Nitro 100 (NF) for 38 Special target rounds, and the early results are promising to say the least. I would be reluctant to use it in anything but a large case cartridge (i.e. 38/44 Special). Because it is THE fastest powder on any burn rate chart I've seen, I am reluctant to use it in a tight quartered semi-auto case. Pressure spiking being my concern.
Yep. Unique is clearly in the "medium" speed range. Although it tends to run a little faster than most of its medium speed peers. (I find Unique and AA5 to be really close to each-other; then HS-6 and Power Pistol to be a little slower. But that's just my anecdotal experience.)
Yep. Although Bullseye can get up into medium velocity territory in your lower pressure chamberings, if you want to go there.
Yep. Probably lends to its popularity. That, and its ignition consistency.
I'll go with that. It does quite well with 110g & 125g 357 Mag SD rounds. They're not full power; but plenty spunky for SD use. Unique has a big "wheelhouse," but 357/125g is smack in the middle of it. Unique's two biggest drawbacks is that it doesn't meter well; and it can run dirty if you load it too low for its speed range (at which point, a faster powder would better fit the application).
Yep. Does best in small volume case cartridges - like 9mm & 40 (10 mm too). It will also serve well in the magnums if you stick with heavy bullets and load it up good n warm; otherwise, it'll run filthy. HS-6 is great for novice loaders because it speaks to you. It'll tell you when you're not using it right.
45 ACP is a bit of a wild card when it comes to loading characteristics and behavior. It doesn't always follow the rules. Its large caliber may be a factor for all I know. What I've observed in my years is that shotgun powders (Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, HS-6) tend to do better in 45 ACP than other chamberings. Overall, it kind of behaves like it's a higher pressure cartridge than it really is. That's one way to look at it.
Yes. Fast powders for low pressure; slow powders for high pressure. Okay, that was waaay oversimplified, but the basic point remains. All else being equal (and it never is) as you move into slower burn rate powders, more pressure is required to keep them running clean and consistent. There's a lot of variables and dynamics going on here, so things aren't always going to make sense. We're handloaders, not scientists. Some things we just accept and move on.
Yeah. No doubt about that whatsoever
I'll go along with that.
Fair enough. That's a common application for HS-6 with me.
Do your work-ups and let us know your results.
Yep. And I still recommend W296/H-110 for this application.
You're on the right track. Time to start loading.
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