Best use of Pistol Powders at Hand

[Frankly]

Hello all,

I have a question for the experienced reloaders.

I made the commitment to get into reloading about a year ago. I bought all the equipment, books, bullets, casings, primers--- everything I need except powder, which has been all but impossible to find up to now.

Scheels recently has been getting pistol powder and I have been hoarding whatever I can. I am now sitting on good stashes of three different powders: Ramshot Silhouette, Hodgdon CFE, and Hodgdon HS6.

I am set up to load 44 special, 44 magnum, 38 special, 357 magnum, 45 ACP, 40 S&W, and 9 Luger.

Having done countless hours of reading in online forums, I have gotten a pretty good sense of people's attitudes toward these three powders, and I have a sense that any one of them would work fine for anything but the magnum loads.

I would be most appreciative of your expert opinions-- note I said "expert" meaning I am talking to those of you who actually know what you are talking about from your years of experience with these powders and calibers... and I don't need any advice on what powders I should have bought instead--- I have what I have, which is the whole point of my post. The question is, given the three powders I have stocked up on and the calibers I am going to be loading, which of the three powders would YOU use for each of the calibers I have listed, and why? (I am talking about both target and defensive loads.)

Your thoughtful insights are most appreciated!

 

[Pathfinder45]

Welcome to TFL. My experience is primarily with 45 Colt. So I will refrain from specific comments except to say that you will probably find useable loads for all with the HS-6. In these days of shortages we often have to learn to make do with what we can get. Others will chime in with better help; I just wanted to say welcome.

 

[Frankly]

Thanks for the Welcome note, Pathfinder.

It sounds like you ARE experienced with HS6 then, correct? Is it a preferred powder for your 45 Colt loads, or just one you'll use if that's all you can get? (I am presuming 45 Colt loads will be real similar to 44 Special, which is what I plan to load a whole bunch of...)

 

[Nick_C_S]

Welcome to TFL. Welcome to the world of handloading.

(I have) Ramshot Silhouette, Hodgdon CFE, and Hodgdon HS6.

You have three usable powders. Nice start by current standards.

I have no experience with Ramshot Silhouette. But I understand that it is an excellent flash-suppressed powder well suited for many handgun cartridges. It's a medium speed powder that "leans" slightly fast, as I understand it. About the same speed as Unique (but otherwise, much different). I have no doubt you'll get good results with it. I have chosen not to use Silhouette only because I have no need for a flash suppressant.

I have never used CFE - can't speak to it at all.

I have extensive experience with HS-6. In general, it's a medium speed, low-energy, rather lackadaisical propellant that doesn't like to burn. Now I know those adjectives don't sound very flattering. But it's actually one of my most used powders.

The trick to using HS-6 is to load it up real good. It is a notoriously foul burning powder that leaves lots of crud behind. And that's true - if you don't load with it properly (and many loaders don't). For starters, it's best in high-pressure low-volume cartridges. You'll have the broadest, most consistent results with it with your 40 cal and 9mm. It will also do good in your magnum loads too. But because of the large case space, you'll want to use magnum primers (CCI 550, & 350), and heavy bullets (158's & 240's). Amazingly, it works well in the relatively low pressure 45ACP too - but it's best at the top end of the load scale where the pressure is up where it likes to run. Again, heavy bullets work best; but I have also made it work well with 185g HP's. Gotta load it up though.

I have had the worst luck with 38 & 44 Special. The case is just too big, and the pressures are just too low for it to run right. In a pinch, I guess you can use mag primers and heavy slugs, and results can be decent. I gave up on HS-6 with the Special chamberings.

Because it's a low-energy propellant, HS-6 has the desirable trait of being very forgiving. Its pressure curve is predictable and is not "spikey" like a high-energy propellant would be (like Power Pistol, for instance). This characteristic fits well with a novice loader. In short, HS-6 is great for beginner loaders.

 

[Unclenick]

I see I was composing while Nick posted. My experience with HS-6 is similar. I've used it in +P .45 Auto Loads, but it's really still a little slow for that. Burns dirty and fiery. It wants a combination of higher pressures and smaller expansion ratios (longer cases so the moving bullet can't double the volume as quickly, while it's still building pressure). It'll do some good work in the .357 and .44 Magnums for you, though just not as good as H110/296, and certainly not up to the newer Alliant Power Pro 300 MP. So it won't reach the potential of these guns, but can make some very good medium level (as magnums go) loads for them. The Specials are just too low pressure for it.

I've not tried the new CFE Pistol, but the data makes it look very similar to Silhouette in terms of performance achieved. Both should be good powders for making near maximum performance loads in your other pistol cartridges. Neither is likely to be good for light target loads, as, in general, the slower the powder the higher the pressure you have to load it to for clean burning, consistent ignition and low velocity spread. For light target loads you'll want to keep your eye peeled for the usual suspects (Bullseye, HP38/231, Universal, etc.).

 

[Frankly]

Some good insights on the HS6 and the characterizations are helpful. I wish someone could provide similar characterizations to compare with the other two powders. They all fall around the same place on the burn rate chart, but I doubt that speaks to characteristics such as "energy level," correct?

I have a (perhaps silly to you) followup. When you say a particular powder is good for "target" loads, what unspoken distinction are you making? How would/should a so-called target load be any different from the loads I carry for SD? I ask because I had anticipated working up the "best" loads in each caliber working with the powders I have at hand. As hard as it is to get any powder, I don't see using multiple powders within one caliber to serve different purposes, nor would that make sense in my mind even if all the different powders were available. For Conceal Carry, conventional wisdom is you carry the same rounds you practice (target shoot) with. To me, "target" shooting is practicing for the real thing. Maybe I am missing something, and I probably am. Please help me to understand.

 

[454PB]

A "target" load to most handloaders is a low to medium pressure round that we feel comfortable shooting for hundreds of rounds in a session. For some, that might be a .44 magnum round featuring a 240 grain bullet at 1000 fps., for others it might be a .38 Special featuring a 148 grain wadcutter at 750 fps.

Only you can decide what a "target" load is. As to a SD round, whatever power level you pick needs to be one that you can handle comfortably and accurately, and hopefully shoot for extended practice sessions.

Personally, I shoot a lot of high energy, high recoil handguns, but generally use both a 9mm with a 17 round magazine full of 115 grain HP handloads and a double action .357 magnum as home protection. That doesn't mean I lack confidence in one of my .454 Casulls as a defense weapon, but something of that power is really impractical and actually dangerous when there's a possibility of penetrating multiple walls.

As to HS6, I too have used buckets of that powder, and it is especially useful in 9mm, .357 magnum, 40 SW, and even "Ruger only" .45 Colt. I've found it works best where pressures exceed around 20K PSI.

 

[jrobin3360]

Welcome to TFL.
I'm only loading for 38 spec, 9mm & 45ACP. Out of three powders you mentioned, I've only used CFE Pistol. I don't know if your at all familiar with Power Pistol powder. It works very well for creating velocities needed for 9mm & 45ACP SD loads (comparing to factory SD loadings). I've had VERY similar (almost identical) results with CFE Pistol & it's easier to find. Haven't tried it for 38 Spec...yet, but I'm expecting similar results.

 

[jrobin3360]

Welcome to TFL.
I'm only loading for 38 spec, 9mm & 45ACP. Out of three powders you mentioned, I've only used CFE Pistol. I don't know if your at all familiar with Power Pistol powder. It works very well for creating velocities needed for 9mm & 45ACP SD loads (comparing to factory SD loadings). I've had VERY similar (almost identical) results with CFE Pistol & it's easier to find. Haven't tried it for 38 Spec...yet, but I'm expecting similar results.

As far as "target loads", that's any cheap, FMJ or lead round used just for target shooting. I've managed to clone those using CFE & some other powders I like better.
SD loads tend to have higher velocities and that can't be achieved with just any powder.

 

[Nick_C_S]

We're having a discussion about our generally accepted nomenclature among loading/shooting enthusiasts.

A "target" load is generally accepted to be a round that is of low power and its only purpose is to go really straight (accurate) and punch a hole in paper or cardboard. Usually, fast powders are used to make these, since a quick, efficient burn is optimum and velocity is of little importance.

A "self defense" load is usually one that is loaded up to full potential. Further, a hollow point bullet design is commonly used to get maximum expansion to deliver energy into the target.

A "self defense practice" or "recoil practice" load is loaded up to full potential to emulate a self defense load, but the bullet used us usually something more economical than an expensive hollow point.

There's other terms, of course. And we don't all follow these terminologies consistently. But hopefully that'll kind of give you a feel for it.

 

[Frankly]

Most helpful to see this from the handloader’s perspective. In the world of factory ammo, the word “target” on the box means little more than it has a cheap round- or flat-nosed bullet. In my experience, the rounds labeled “target” shoot no softer than same-weighted SD rounds from the same company, they just cost a whole lot less. I even got curious one time and took one of each apart to compare volume and appearance of powder. No difference in volume, and the powder looked identical, even under my son’s microscope.

Back to the main topic, I am of the impression that all three of my powders are excellent choices for 9 and 40. I am getting mixed views on 45acp. I am hearing these powders are okay but not great in magnum loads, but completely ill suited to the Specials… are these pretty much the collective views?

Looks like I won’t be cracking open the two boxes of new 44 special brass any time soon…

 

[Nick_C_S]

Frankly, be on the lookout for some fast stuff. Bullseye, W231/HP-38, AA#2, and others. The shortage seems to be easing, so one of these will present itself to you soon.

Once you get a fast powder, you can load a lot of 38/44 Special and 45 ACP.

45 ACP really likes fast powders. I've propelled 230g slugs to over 800 fps no problem with W231 - and with phenomenal consistency. (Full size 1911)

Are these pretty much the collective views?

It would seem so, yes. You've got the medium speed range well covered. Now you need some fast stuff.

 

[Frankly]

With a total of 56 pounds of this medium burn rate stuff at hand, looks like my grandchildren are gonna be using more of it than I will.

Sounds like what works well for 44 special will also work well for 45acp, yes?

The only round I will be loading solely for target shooting is 38 special, and only because I have tons of brass. I would rather load that caliber as 357 magnum for SD...

The 44 magnum is overkill (pun intended) for SD against 2-legged threats. So I will be loading and shooting very little of it. When I do load 44 mag, I will want to load it to the max because its only use to me would be protection against bears and such while out in the wild.

The .44 Special is my dream load. I have 2,000 new cases from Starline Brass and a whole bunch of inexpensive lead hollowpoints from Hornady. I want to work up loads near the high end that will be suitable for both SD and fun shooting... so advice in particular on the best powder to watch for with that in mind would be helpful. I see Hodgdon refers to H38 as a target powder. Is there any reason max loads with that powder would not yield best results for SD as well?

 

[Frankly]

Nick,

Looking at the load data in the Lee book, I am confused.

Lee lists loads in order of velocity. HS6 is the third highest listing for 44 special 240 grain lead bullets with 917 fps performance at the high end and 13000 psi. HP38 appears in the lower half of this list (several powders above bullseye, which I see a lot of folks raving about) and shows 858 and 13,200 at the high end (lower velocity at higher pressure as compared to the less energetic HS6).

So it seems the higher energy (faster burn rate?) powders inherently produce lower velocities at their maximum loads than the slower burning powders? And if HS6 is not a good powder for 44 Special, how is it that it produces the third highest velocity, according to Lee's data? The ones that are considered better powders for this caliber, according to what I am hearing from you guys, produce lower velocities for this caliber... Please help me make sense out of this.

 

[Nick_C_S]

With a total of 56 pounds of this medium burn rate stuff at hand, looks like my grandchildren are gonna be using more of it than I will.

Wow. Really? I have exactly half that and feel well stocked. However, mine is spread out over 10 different powders. I have the full spectrum, from Nitro 100 to W296. 16 of those 28 lbs, btw, is fast stuff. I load a lot of target level ammo.

Sounds like what works well for 44 special will also work well for 45acp, yes?

Mmm, the fast answer is "yes." But 44 Special has a SAAMI max pressure spec of 15.5Kpsi, and 45 ACP is 21Kpsi. 44 Special has a large volume case; and 45 ACP, not so much. All else being equal (and it rarely is), the larger the internal case volume for the powder, the slower the powder's burn rate - i.e. the same powder in a smaller volume chamber will burn faster. So for everyday basic shooting ammo, yeah, the two are virtually interchangeable. But when you get into high pressure (by their standards) rounds, the 45 ACP will do better with slightly slower powders than the 44 Special - this is where your HS-6 comes in for 45 ACP.

The only round I will be loading solely for target shooting is 38 special, and only because I have tons of brass.

Then you definitely need some fast powder. Like 44 Special, 38 Special has a cavernous case volume. This is also why 16 of my 28 lbs of powder is fast stuff - I load/shoot more target 38 than any other. The two to look out for are Bullseye and W231 (aka HP-38 - their the same powder under different labels). But others will work well too. I'm experimenting with new-to-me Nitro 100 NF (the fastest smokeless powder of them all) and getting excellent results so far. AA2 is another great choice. AA2 is designed for semi-auto duty (think 9mm 115g bullets), but it has delivered for me outstanding target 38 ammo. I suspect it would do equally well in 44 Special. Red Dot is another good choice. It delivers consistent burns in low pressure applications, but it also has a reputation of not running real clean - it's a shotgun powder. And there are others; but nothing I can speak to from personal experience.

I would rather load that caliber (38 Special) as 357 magnum for SD...

If you mean load 38 Special brass up to 357 Magnum pressures; yes, you can do this. But there comes with it serious safety concerns. First, do not load to 357 data. The smaller 38 case volume will raise the burn rate to much faster levels than the 357 published data anticipated. We're talking very dangerous territory here. You'd have to start with 38 data and work up. Many loaders have done this. Personally, I recommend against this practice. There is also the concern of mis-identification. A 357 Mag pressure level round in what appears to be a 38 Special round can also be disasterous if it is fired from a small frame 38. This topic is a full thread all in itself. I would get some 357 Mag brass for your 357 Mag SD rounds.

In terms of powder, yes, your medium speed powders will work well for 357 Magnum. But you won't quite achieve maximum velocities (as Unclenick said re HS-6). Depending on the barrel length of your gun(s), they will get you to 80-90% maximum velocity. How fast do you really need to go? Myself, I load a lot of 357 Magnum in this range. They are good potent "well balanced" SD rounds for my 3" & 4" bbl 686's. With HS-6, through my 3" bbl, I'm pushing 158's past 1100 fps, and 125's well past 1300 fps. Is that max velocity? No. Is that sufficient velocity for SD? Absolutely yes.

When I do load 44 mag, I will want to load it to the max because its only use to me would be protection against bears and such while out in the wild.

If you're loading 44 Mag for bear, then you want to go full max and use 240g slugs. This is where slow powders come in. You'll need to find W296 (my personal choice) or the like. Fortunately, slow powders are getting pretty easy to find these days. You'll have little trouble getting some.

The .44 Special is my dream load. I have 2,000 new cases from Starline Brass and a whole bunch of inexpensive lead hollowpoints from Hornady. I want to work up loads near the high end that will be suitable for both SD and fun shooting... so advice in particular on the best powder to watch for with that in mind would be helpful.

See paragraph 2

I see Hodgdon refers to HP-38 as a target powder. Is there any reason max loads (with 44 Special) with that powder would not yield best results for SD as well?

Define "best results." If you mean maximum velocity, then a medium speed powder might do you well - if you're going for maximum velocity. I've never loaded for this application (full power 44 Special for defense), so I can't give much guidance here. When I load 44 Special, the application is target. If I want more umph, I load magnums. If I were to guess, I'd say your Ramshot Silhouette would be the best choice. HS-6 may do it too, but I suspect it will run dirty. But since it seems you have a lot of it, it may be worth a try. Besides, powder crud isn't the end of the world - it cleans up

 

[Nick_C_S]

Lee lists loads in order of velocity. HS6 is the third highest listing for 44 special 240 grain lead bullets with 917 fps performance at the high end and 13000 psi. HP38 appears in the lower half of this list (several powders above bullseye, which I see a lot of folks raving about) and shows 858 and 13,200 at the high end (lower velocity at higher pressure as compared to the less energetic HS6).

Pressure and velocity yield are not directly linked together. This is the very essence of powder selection. A fast powder delivers its payload (pressure) quickly. All else being equal (and it rarely is) a slower powder will deliver its payload over a longer period of time (we're talking milliseconds of difference). Now we're getting into physics here, and variables abound, but when a powder delivers its payload, that pesky bullet is resisting against the expanding gasses. It's a momentum thing. If you push the bullet over a longer period of time, there is more potential to get it moving faster. So a fast powder delivering a higher peak pressure, may not necessarily yield the most velocity. In fact, it most likely won't.

So it seems the higher energy (faster burn rate?)

"Energetic" and "burn rate" are two different things, and have no relation to one-another.

It's not useful to look at powders of different burn rates in terms of how "energetic" they are. When I refer to HS-6 as being a "low energy" powder, I'm speaking relative to its medium speed peers (against Power Pistol for instance, which is highly energetic). To compare it to the faster burning HP-38 in terms of how energetic it is, is an apples-n-oranges comparison.

Low energy powders tend to be tame and predictable, but tend to run dirty; and high energy powders tend to be spikey, but tend to run clean and deliver the most velocity. That's really all a loader needs to know - it's a generalization. And it's hardly even a consideration in most applications.

If HS6 is not a good powder for 44 Special, how is it that it produces the third highest velocity, according to Lee's data?

Because when I said "it's not a good powder" for 44 Special, I didn't mean it can't deliver good velocities. I meant that it tends to run dirty and inconsistent. It was not to mean it should not be used necessarily. I personally only load 44 Special for target applications. And in that application, HS-6's pressure is too low to burn clean - not even close; it's filthy, actually. HS-6 may behave differently when it's loaded up more for a SD application (give it a try ). Also, load data just gives velocity - they make no mention of how clean or consistent they run.

The ones that are considered better powders for this caliber, according to what I am hearing from you guys, produce lower velocities for this caliber... Please help me make sense out of this.

It think this is because we're defining "better" as clean and consistent running; and not necessarily higher velocity. Experienced loaders tend make "balanced" rounds - that is, ammunition that is right for the application, and delivers consistent, predictable results - batch after batch. Velocity is often not the primary consideration.

 

[Frankly]

But when you get into high pressure (by their standards) rounds, the 45 ACP will do better with slightly slower powders than the 44 Special - this is where your HS-6 comes in for 45 ACP.

I don’t see Hodgdon recommending HS6 for 45 acp, but I do see the CFE and Silhouette being expressly recommended by the manufacturers for 45 acp. So, absent any specific advice from the forum on that, I will probably reserve the HS6 for 9 and 40, while using one or both of the other two for the 45. Does that seem a logical allocation?

If you mean load 38 Special brass up to 357 Magnum pressures

No—I didn’t mean to suggest I would use 38 brass for 357 loads. I have plenty of once-fired 357 brass for the magnum loads and certainly will use that.

An interesting aside this brings to mind. My local FFL guy who handles my interstate transfers told me I should use magnum cases for all my 44 loads, even the special loads. I rejected that advice on its face and bought the Starline Brass in 44 Special. Even for a newbie, it seemed common sense to me that using 44 special load data and substituting a magnum case was not going to deliver the indicated velocities and pressures. Also, please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding has been that case fill is a consideration and that some powders don’t like a lot of empty space in the case—yes? I don’t doubt that a person can work up effective 44 special-level loads for a magnum case, but is there really any advantage to reinventing the wheel when you can fire 44 specials from a magnum revolver? Is my FFL guy’s advice sound, or am I right in rejecting it? I know… this question too could be its own thread.

If you're loading 44 Mag for bear, then you want to go full max and use 240g slugs. This is where slow powders come in.

I will be using nothing but 240 grain slugs in 44, whether special or magnum. I have plenty of inexpensive 240 grain lead hollowpoints (Hornady) to serve all my subsonic needs, and I have Nosler 240 grain jacketed softpoints that will serve in my max magnum loads for defending against angry Moose or Bear here in the Rockies. So are you of the opinion that one or more of the powders I already have would be better than just “okay” for such max Magnum loads? I've noted that the faster burning powders take a lot more powder in the magnums and some are even compressed loads...

Define "best results." If you mean maximum velocity…

Well that’s just it. I am getting the impression from your (and the other folks’) replies that the target load is distinguished from a SD or hunting load as being a lower velocity load. But to me that just doesn’t square. For SD against 2-legged critters, I am of the understanding that “best” is defined as maximum expansion of a hollow point bullet while achieving optimum penetration. Too much velocity can defeat the purpose, causing the bullet to not expand while traveling clean through the target. For 4-legged SD (or hunting) purposes, you do not want a hollow point, particularly for bear of other large critters with thick hides because the bullet would expand prematurely and not even penetrate. Thus the heavy (240 grain) soft point bullets.

So, to me, it seems that when you are talking about target (soft-shooting) loads in a 44 special, you are also talking about loads that will propel a hollow-point SD bullet at sufficient speed to both penetrate and expand as intended, no? After all, the 45 acp was designed for stopping 2-legged critters and the velocities are about the same with a similar weight of bullet…

A fast powder delivers its payload (pressure) quickly. All else being equal (and it rarely is) a slower powder will deliver its payload over a longer period of time…

Hmmm… based on that, would the relatively slower powders I already have be actually preferred for pistol calibers shot from rifles?

I ask because I have Henry lever action rifles in both 44 mag and 357 mag. Should my loads for these rifles follow a different thinking than my loads for the revolvers in same caliber?

Low energy powders tend to be tame and predictable, but tend to run dirty; and high energy powders tend to be spikey, but tend to run clean and deliver the most velocity. That's really all a loader needs to know…

According to load data I cited however, the opposite is true about velocity, with the higher energy HP38 showing lower max velocities than the lower energy HS6… so it still seems confusing…

Also, how does one find data that compares the relative energy of all the powders? All I see is burn rate charts…

Experienced loaders tend make "balanced" rounds - that is, ammunition that is right for the application, and delivers consistent, predictable results - batch after batch. Velocity is often not the primary consideration.

This is completely consistent with my expectations and learning objectives… Thanks for all your priceless insights!

 

[Nick_C_S]

I don’t see Hodgdon recommending HS6 for 45 acp, but I do see the CFE and Silhouette being expressly recommended by the manufacturers for 45 acp. So, absent any specific advice from the forum on that, I will probably reserve the HS6 for 9 and 40, while using one or both of the other two for the 45. Does that seem a logical allocation?

Yes. That's logical. HS-6 does well in 9mm and 40 Cal. I use HS-6 for some 45 ACP recipes, but not nearly as much as W231.

My local FFL guy who handles my interstate transfers told me I should use magnum cases for all my 44 loads, even the special loads. I rejected that advice on its face and bought the Starline Brass in 44 Special.

Good move. I would have done the same.

Even for a newbie, it seemed common sense to me that using 44 special load data and substituting a magnum case was not going to deliver the indicated velocities and pressures.

You're right. It wouldn't. Not even close. There are loaders who use Mag brass for Special velocity loads. But they have to use more powder to compensate for the larger case volume. I don't like this practice on its theory - it's best to avoid a lot of extra space inside the case. Inconsistent ignitions, and thus, inconsistent results are possible. I'd rather just avoid the potential problem altogether.

Also, please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding has been that case fill is a consideration and that some powders don’t like a lot of empty space in the case—yes?

Yes. Although some handle case space better than others. Bullseye and W231 seem to operate very consistently with a lot of excess case space, for instance. AA5 too - for a medium speed powder. Generally, the faster the powder, the less difference it seems to make.

I don’t doubt that a person can work up effective 44 special-level loads for a magnum case, but is there really any advantage to reinventing the wheel when you can fire 44 specials from a magnum revolver?

It can definitely be done - and has - lots of times. The advantage is all one size case to deal with during brass reconditioning and prep. And also (and maybe more so), the longer case won't leave the fouling that the shorter Special case can do in a magnum revolver. During a range trip, if you shoot a bunch of Special rounds, then follow up with Magnum rounds, the fouling can make the Mag cases hard to insert. Some people don't like this and thus, avoid using Special cases. Personal preference, I guess.

So are you of the opinion that one or more of the powders I already have would be better than just “okay” for such max (44) Magnum loads?

I'm not sure, as I only have experience with HS-6. But I would definitely try HS-6. You won't get to top-end velocities; but I believe they will still be fairly stout. Only a chronograph will tell you which powder that you have will be the best ("best" being defined, in this case, as maximum velocity). I can almost guarantee however, that none of them will match the performance of a slow powder like W296/H-110, IMR 4227, 2400, AA9, etc.

For 4-legged SD (or hunting) purposes, you do not want a hollow point, particularly for bear of other large critters with thick hides because the bullet would expand prematurely and not even penetrate. Thus the heavy (240 grain) soft point bullets.

I tend to agree. I don't hunt or spend time amongst bears. But if I were loading my 44 Mag for bear or boar, I would consider a soft point bullet too. First and foremost, you gotta make a hole, so to speak. But that's a whole 'nother thread. If this is the load you're trying to make, then you may well define "best" as the one with maximum velocity; not the most consistent. That's the beauty of loading our own, we get to purpose build them. And "best" changes, depending on the purpose.

I ask because I have Henry lever action rifles in both 44 mag and 357 mag. Should my loads for these rifles follow a different thinking than my loads for the revolvers in same caliber?

Well, this gets into barrel length. Slow powders are best suited for long barrels. I don't have any lever rifles (I plan on it some day though). But if I did, I'd use almost entirely W296 to load for them. I would definitely want a slow powder for them and specific application would make little difference (if any) on my powder selection.

higher energy HP38 showing lower max velocities than the lower energy HS6… so it still seems confusing…

I don't know that HP-38 has more energy than HS-6. Because of the differences in burn rate between the two, the comparison is apples n oranges, so to speak. When I referred to HS-6 as a low energy powder, I was comparing it to its speed range peers (AA5, Unique, Power Pistol) - not against a powder of an entirely different speed range like HP-38. I mentioned HS-6's energy only because of how that characteristic makes it behave in low pressure environments. Not for any other reason, such as, to compare its velocity to other powders.

Lots of good questions. You're keeping me occupied on this rainy, soggy day here in California

 

[Frankly]

if you shoot a bunch of Special rounds, then follow up with Magnum rounds, the fouling can make the Mag cases hard to insert. Some people don't like this and thus, avoid using Special cases.

Heard/read that rationale before. But those folks are doing things backwards IMHO. I have always fired my magnum rounds first then followed with the specials (if I am lucky enough to have any). That way the theoretical fouling issue (which I think is grossly exaggerated anyway) does not exist. I subscribe to work smart, not hard. Right down to the most mundane task as pouring a cup of coffee. Some folks pour the coffee first then add cream and/or sugar—then they have to dirty a spoon (which they will have to clean) and go through the tedium of stirring it all up. But if you put the cream and/or sugar in first then pour your coffee over it, the whole thing stirs itself...

Slow powders are best suited for long barrels.

This was my thinking. The CFE pistol powder was a followup to the original CFE that was developed for military use in long guns. Since my long guns are chambered in handgun calibers, I would speculate that the CFE pistol powder would be a good fit… I will load some when I get set up and find out…

When I referred to HS-6 as a low energy powder, I was comparing it to its speed range peers

My bad, as the kids today say. You had told me that before and somehow it didn’t sink in.

Which brings me to the other question I still have: is there a source for comparative data of “energy” levels or other key characteristics within, or even across, burn rates—or is this just something you have to learn from direct experience with the different powders?

 

[mchapman]

You said that you also had CFE Pistol, if that is right then it will work great in 38 spcl. and 9mm and 45acp, this is from my personal use. I shoot 3-500 rounds a week doing steel challenge and uspsa type shooting, and I've found that CFE Pistol and Auto Comp both work well for me. I would say from my outlook of these powders is that they are the "NEW" replacement powders for Bullseye and Unique. I'm not saying these are direct replacements for these powders, but that they will work across many caliburs like the other two did, as a side note both CFE and Auto Comp both seem to do better on the upper side of the load range. They both burn cleaner when loaded on the upper end , much cleaner than BE or Unique. I have not used Silhouette so I can't speak about it.