Best shotgun shell for self defense in an apartment.

what shotgun shell would you use if you lived in an apartment?

  • 00 Buck

    Votes: 56 35.9%

  • #4 Buck

    Votes: 49 31.4%

  • Turkey Shot

    Votes: 14 9.0%

  • #4 bird shot

    Votes: 37 23.7%
  • Total voters
    156
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Super-Dave

New member
Ok guys. I have to move into an appartment. I have never done so before and I am not sure what to have in my shotgun.

What do you recomend I keep in my shotgun to minimize any damage to the neighbors in case I have to go "John Wayne" on some thug.
 
I'm moving into a new apartment in August, and after research, i decided i'm going with number 4 buck since theirs neighbors on either side of me.
 
Hey, How confined is your apartment nickmc? you might want a handgun if you have too many corners to swing that barrel around or too many doors to let a hand off your 2-handed weapon for split second to open a door.
But then again it could be pretty roomy and you would want the firepower.
 
I have a Taurus Judge loaded with #00. Granted, it is a .410, but it will not severely damage what is on the other side of the wall. Just my humble opinion.
 
For apartment use, you might want to get off the buckshot bandwagon and go with some trap loads with #6 or 7 1/2 shot. You have to be concerned with penetration. Apartment walls ain't nothing but 2x4's and sheetrock. At least a low powered load has the least chance of overpenetrating and nailing your neighbor, yet at ordinary room ranges will definitely penetrate the BG. In fact the shot will still be in the wad. Even a .410 is quite adequate inside a room. Besides, when you point a shotgun at the BG he will probably have a fecal hemorrhage and collapse so you won't even have to pull the trigger. Here endeth the epistle. Goatwhiskers the Elder
 
TexasMan I'm now moving into a more open concept apartment, I'm going with the third floor (best view and no neighbors above me:)). The only doorway is coming out of my bedroom, so it's not like I have to sweep and clear several rooms, just hole up and wait. I have handguns, but i'm cautious of shooting 9mm inside the apartment, the walls are too thin and I don't trust it. #4 buck should do fine, it could penetrate the walls of course but beyond the wall, the lethality will deminish, (don't miss). And i'm not going to blast up the complex with my AR, so #4 buck out of a 20 ga will be fine for me.
 
I wish I could remember where I read it, but somebody had a sig line that said something along the lines of:

Anything with enough penetration to stop the BG also has enough penetration to go through all walls of your dwelling, exit your home, travel around the world, enter the Vatican and kill the pope.
Click to expand...

If it was me, I believe I'd do a little homework to check out the option of sticking with 12-Gauge 00, but moving from lead to frangible pellets.

http://secondarmored.com/police/productdetail.aspx?catid=194&pid=1737
 
Yeah overpenetration should be your biggest concern, because no matter what you intended whatever you shoot your responsible for it.
 
For your shotgun to live up to its reputation for versatility and do a proper job for you, it is critical that you load it with the correct ammunition for the given task.. Birdshot is, as its name implies, best suited for shooting feathered food, though it is also appropriate for small game such as rabbits and squirrel within range, and for shooting produce-stealing varmints such as woodchucks at across-the-garden distance.

With smaller pellets, such as the tiny #8 or #9, birdshot will take small birds like doves without destroying the meat. Larger lead pellets will bag wild turkey, and large steel or bismuth pellets are the ticket for ducks and geese. (Lead birdshot pellets are forbidden for hunting migratory waterfowl, since spent shot collects at the bottom of bodies of water where the birds may swallow it, causing lead poisoning.)

Moving up from birdshot, the next progressive step on the shotgun ammo ladder is buckshot. The implication of its name to the contrary, this is not the best ammunition to use for deer unless local law in densely populated areas demands it. The most popular load, 00 buckshot (“double-ought”) comprises nine .33 caliber plain lead or copper jacketed pellets when loaded in a 12 gauge shell. I have seen deer that were strafed from stem to stern with 00 buckshot from full choke (longer range) shotguns, with the pellets merely stuck in their hide where they lodged without penetrating into the animals’ body cavities. Buckshot is a very close range proposition. It is actually at its best as an antipersonnel load, favored by the military for jungle warfare and embassy guard duties (it proved horrendously effective in the trenches during WWI), and by police. This writer uses buckshot as a home defense shotgun load, with #1 Express (full power) buckshot in the semiautomatic 12 guage. This delivers 16 .30 caliber pellets that strike with optimum penetration for erect bipeds, and with optimum pattern saturation at distances from close range to 15 yards. These pellets will normally stay inside the assailant’s body with a front to back shot, reducing danger to innocent bystanders who might be located unseen behind a violent criminal. ~ Massad Ayoob
Click to expand...

I think #1 buck is probably best if you're looking to kill but not overpenetrate.



Here's the link to the article: http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob031221.html
 
anyone with experiences with the penetration of #4 buckshot in a 20ga?

edit: not human penetration but wall penetration
 
Honestly since over penetration is your biggest worry in an apartment I'm going to say stick with something around turkey shot. Most buckshot can tear right through apartment walls and still have plenty of force to plow through one or two more. Turkey shot will be able to penetrate a wall as well but will lose a lot of energy and probably won't go through a second wall (probably being the key word).

At ranges you'll be dealing with in an apartment most any 20 or 12 gauge shell will stop an intruder. If the first round doesn't then the second or third will.

Another idea would be to place a bookcase as a backstop to a kill zone. In my apartment there is a hallway that must be traversed to get to my bedroom. At the end of the hall way opposite of my bedroom is a bookshelf filled with books and old magazines. That is usually enough to catch shot and stop it from penetrating through a wall.
 
I could swear I remember reading in a magazine that at the close range, like in a room of a house. Average bedroom or so. Bird shot will move with close to the same energy, and density as a 12 gauge slug. It takes a bit for that huge mass of Shot to spread out.

So if you ask me, for a close range home defense situation, like an apartment. Bird shot would be great.

Because it will work as well for close range,
Have less penetration through walls and floors
Cheaper to shoot, and generally a lighter and more controllable load
No one wants to get shot with a 12 gauge full of bird shot!
 
When I did live in an apartment, I kept my scattergun stoked with #7 birdshot, but there were reasons.

First, there was a long hallway (15 feet) between the front door and the rest of the apartment. I figured that gave me a chance to send atleast 2 rounds towards the BG before he made it into the apartment proper.

Secondly, the walls that seperated me and my next door neighbor ( who was a city cop) were made with 2x4's studs sandwiched between 5/8" sheetrock, with a little insulation in the gaps. If you don't hit the stud dead center, even # 7 birdshot will penetrate 2 sheets of wallboard. Buckshot will go through much more.

Even with poor shot placement, it takes a real tough son of a gun to take a couple pops from a low brass birdshot load and keep coming. And in the end, I'm just as happy if the BG takes a few pellets in the thigh and groin, and limps away fast as he can as opposed to die and bleed on the carpet.
 
you can loose your damage deposit

if the BG bleeds all over your carpet! LOL
While a short barrel shotgun may be the best of the best in the area of stop-a-bility that doesn't make it always the best choice of firearms primarily due to it's length even in a short barrel version. Living in an apartment I find a handgun to be the preferred piece to grab when something goes bump in the night and when I answer my door at night (could be a neigbor knocking), if some gang bangers were trying to get in that's a different matter and due to the tight pattern of buckshot at close range, unless your targets are all stick men I don't see all these loose pellets flying around (in close quarters of an apartment), if you think you'd miss completely, well then you'd probably miss completely with a handgun as well and I'm not sure which passes through multiple layers of sheetrock and wall insulation the best, a 45 FMJ or buckshot. And the Federal low recoil buckshot as I recall, claims a tighter pattern, point being less or no buckshot pellets not hitting the target, I would think.
 
Last time I was living in an apartment (a few years ago), I had 00 buck in the magazine and Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddle, just like now. The job was the same as now (stopping BGs), why would I change ammo?

FWIW, the shotgun was a Remington 870 Express Turkey gun bought used (and cheap, because $$$ were tight), with a 21" VR barrel, and an ImpCyl choke tube in place. Good shooting gun, I still have it. The only handgun I had then was a Glock 19. Everything was locked up in one of the little Homak steel gun cabinets when i wasn't home, laid flat on its back on the floor in the closet and so loaded down with ammo it was almost impossible to move.

lpl
 
So if you ask me, for a close range home defense situation, like an apartment. Bird shot would be great.
Click to expand...

Birdshot does not typically penetrate enough to hit anything important, not sure about turkey shot but I wouldn't expect the difference to be more than an inch or two. I know the idea is to not overpenetrate but you want something that will get at least 8" of penetration while not exceeding 12". Use a lighter buckshot load like #1 thru 4. Look at what the military and police are using for manstopping rounds. I know the military uses 00, I would be highly surprised if you found any police departments using anything less than #4 buck. I wouldn't. If you're REALLY worried about overpenetration use #4 buck, but I would think #1 would do just fine. Remember, while it's preferable that it stops in the BG its OK if it stops in your wall.
 
00 Buck...Just be sure you have a target BEFORE you pull the trigger...There is no question it's a man-stopper and that's your main concern...Tell your neighbors to do the same.
 
Super-Dave. I'm in exactly the same position you are, and was researching the exact same question for the same reason. Hey - great minds think alike, huh?

I came across an article / post (sorry, can't remember where) from a former law enforcement officer and military veteran who suggested loading the shotgun with progressively more potent shells. For instance - assuming you have an 8 shell capacity magazine:
First two shells = #6 or #7 birdshot. Second two shells = #4 buckshot. Third two shells = #00 buckshot. Last two = rifled deer slugs.

I'll probably try that. My thinking being, God forbid, if I ever have to put more than the first two shells into anyone and they keep coming / or if there's more than 1 intruder, the subsequent shots will definately stop them. I have a wife and child to protect as well as myself, and I am the last line of home defense as my wife refuses to learn to shoot. However, at that short a distance, I can't see the #6 birdshot not settling the argument. I may be wrong.

The most important thing is practice, practice, practice and get to know your shotgun, and how it handles different loads. Be safe and good luck with the move.
 
I have seen # 8 bird shot almost completely penetrate the chest of a human. You guys who keep telling everyone that bird shot won't stop someone have no idea what you are talking about. I have cut down small trees with a magazine of birdshot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top