Best cheap milsurp rifle for SHTF???
- Thread starter MosinNOUGAT
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the possum
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Honestly, your best bet is to browse on Gun Broker, and see for yourself what's available in your price range. It's quite possible that you may find a nice gun in perfect working order with a few cosmetic scuffs that bring the price down.
i would lean towards a good .22 rifle, not much noise to alert any one your in the area and ammo is light and could feed you for a long time with a brick or two of .22 ammo and in a pinch could be used to defend your self. i have killed all species of small game and a few deer with head shots useing the .22. forget about being rambo and try to stay hidden. eastbank.
Pathfinder45
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I have to concur with Eastbank here. Feed yourself with a 22LR and walk away from trouble.
MosinNOUGAT
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Thanks everyone! (I just posted this yesterday and I only expected maybe 2 replies?) I really enjoyed your suggestions. Just for future notice, I already have an Ar-15, a .22 LR, a G17, and a Mossberg 500 (and of course, the mosin 91/30). Also, how good do you guys think an Ishapore 2A1 would be in .308 for this type of situation.
Thanks for the heads-up, I changed it to "survival rifle" to avoid this.
Thanks for the heads-up, I changed it to "survival rifle" to avoid this.
MosinNOUGAT
New member
and some people are saying zombie stuff is bs, which I said if you read the full description. Zombies will NEVER happen. It doesn't even make sense. Mostly I was asking about a gun that combines the ability to hunt, defend myself, and to be able to be abused without failing (with care and regular cleaning).
Thanks
Thanks
About any gun you choose will serve the purpose and with reasonable care last a very long time. I think the biggest damage to guns comes from those who work on them that have no business working on them. Clean, lube and use quality ammo and you should be good to go for a long time.
Model12Win
Moderator
Finn M39:
Very accurate, powerful, easy to obtain round, stupid rugged and reliable, and once again an inexpensive rifle since many have flooded the market. This gun is the reason why Finland is not a part of Russia right now. They will do the job of combat (obviously) and are also tremendous hunting rifles. Can be reloaded fast with stripper clips. You cannot go wrong.
MosinNOUGAT
New member
Nice MN (i think?)! I like the stock, where did you get it?
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Although powerful enough, because you list "self defense" as a requirement I cannot suggest a 10ft (intentional exaggeration) rifle as viable in a country that is overran with Glocks and AR15s.
If you get ahold of a milsurp in good shape, you probably won't want to beat the crap out of it.
If you get ahold of a milsurp in good shape, you probably won't want to beat the crap out of it.
MosinNOUGAT
New member
This one is mine:
What do you think?
What do you think?
armoredman
New member
Does that thing convert the rifle into a war club?
BTW, by changing the rules, in your original request, I would have to say an over and under 223/20g might be best for absolute reliability, I would hazard the guess, especially keeping the price point down. You asked about the ishapore Enfield? Common caliber, but I wouldn't want to find spare parts when the internet is down for the next 8-12 months and UPS isn't running.
BTW, by changing the rules, in your original request, I would have to say an over and under 223/20g might be best for absolute reliability, I would hazard the guess, especially keeping the price point down. You asked about the ishapore Enfield? Common caliber, but I wouldn't want to find spare parts when the internet is down for the next 8-12 months and UPS isn't running.
Josh Smith
Moderator
I think the rifle's nice.
The mace... not sure what you'd use that for. Walking dead, maybe?
Regards,
Josh
The mace... not sure what you'd use that for. Walking dead, maybe?
Regards,
Josh
jaytex1969
New member
That, as any experienced Mosin Nagant owner would know, is the bolt assist tool, used to combat "Sticky Bolt Syndrome!
(Call off the dogs! I have and love Mosins, as well!)
OP, the best one, from cap gun to cannon, is the one you get competent and confident with using.
If you think its too big/small/ugly/complicated/simple/undesirable, it is. Grab one you like and want to shoot, then shoot it.
TruthTellers
New member
The most important thing is going to be the ammunition; if you can't feed the gun, it's useless.
So, that leaves you the most used cartridges of:
.223/5.56
7.62x39
7.62x54R
.308/7.62x51
There are other milsurp cartridges like .303 British, 7.5x55 Swiss, 8mm Mauser that are somewhat common, but nowhere near as common as the above, thus unless you can get a THOUSANDS of rounds for it for a good price, don't bother.
With that said, your options for the Russian guns are going to be the Mosin and its many varieties, the SKS, and the cheap AK's.
I wouldn't bother with the Mosin because it's an antiquated design that is inferior to the most inexpensive modern made bolt guns. The SKS is a decent option, but for the prices they sell for today, they're not as good a value as they were 15 years ago.
The AK is A-okay. *Yeah, that was bad.* but to make it as tacitcal and accurate, you'll have to spend lots of money on accessories. I like the Zhukov stock that Magpul makes, it allows the AK to have a steady, sturdy folding stock that you can still make accurate shots with and not have an uncomfortable wire stock to put your cheek on.
I don't view the AK platform as one that works well with optics, so using the irons is the best imo. The sight radius is really short on AK's, so I'd buy a Tech Sights AK upgrade. It replaces the dust cover on the AK and moves the rear sight all the way to the back of the dust cover and nearly doubles the sight radius.
It's worth paying the money for. It will make the AK more accurate, but not as accurate as an AR.
If you were willing to spend less than two hundred bucks more, you could get a really decent S&W M&P15 or Ruger AR15.
For .308, there's no real semi auto rifle I can think of that will fit your budget other than the Century C308, which will be more than the S&W and Ruger AR's I mentioned above.
What you can get in .308 is a budget bolt gun meant for hunting like the Savage Axis, Mossberg Patriot, or Ruger American. Those go for under $400.
Out of all those, I'd go with the Ruger American Predator model which has a heavier barrel, which means it will hold its accuracy while using during prolonged firing.
But combat is likely not going to happen as often as hunting for food will. I don't think .22 caliber is a good cartridge for bear or moose or other larger game, which you could come into contact with just walking in the woods depending on where you live. In that regards, the 7.62x54R and .308 is best. It gives you a longer, more effective range to work with.
Really, coming across such large game will likely be rare, so you're more likely to be hunting deer and small game like rabbits and squirrels. For that, I think the .327 would be the best all around rifle. The .327 will have enough power to take a deer at closer range, while the weaker .32 S&W will kill small game without blowing them apart.
So, that leaves you the most used cartridges of:
.223/5.56
7.62x39
7.62x54R
.308/7.62x51
There are other milsurp cartridges like .303 British, 7.5x55 Swiss, 8mm Mauser that are somewhat common, but nowhere near as common as the above, thus unless you can get a THOUSANDS of rounds for it for a good price, don't bother.
With that said, your options for the Russian guns are going to be the Mosin and its many varieties, the SKS, and the cheap AK's.
I wouldn't bother with the Mosin because it's an antiquated design that is inferior to the most inexpensive modern made bolt guns. The SKS is a decent option, but for the prices they sell for today, they're not as good a value as they were 15 years ago.
The AK is A-okay. *Yeah, that was bad.* but to make it as tacitcal and accurate, you'll have to spend lots of money on accessories. I like the Zhukov stock that Magpul makes, it allows the AK to have a steady, sturdy folding stock that you can still make accurate shots with and not have an uncomfortable wire stock to put your cheek on.
I don't view the AK platform as one that works well with optics, so using the irons is the best imo. The sight radius is really short on AK's, so I'd buy a Tech Sights AK upgrade. It replaces the dust cover on the AK and moves the rear sight all the way to the back of the dust cover and nearly doubles the sight radius.
It's worth paying the money for. It will make the AK more accurate, but not as accurate as an AR.
If you were willing to spend less than two hundred bucks more, you could get a really decent S&W M&P15 or Ruger AR15.
For .308, there's no real semi auto rifle I can think of that will fit your budget other than the Century C308, which will be more than the S&W and Ruger AR's I mentioned above.
What you can get in .308 is a budget bolt gun meant for hunting like the Savage Axis, Mossberg Patriot, or Ruger American. Those go for under $400.
Out of all those, I'd go with the Ruger American Predator model which has a heavier barrel, which means it will hold its accuracy while using during prolonged firing.
But combat is likely not going to happen as often as hunting for food will. I don't think .22 caliber is a good cartridge for bear or moose or other larger game, which you could come into contact with just walking in the woods depending on where you live. In that regards, the 7.62x54R and .308 is best. It gives you a longer, more effective range to work with.
Really, coming across such large game will likely be rare, so you're more likely to be hunting deer and small game like rabbits and squirrels. For that, I think the .327 would be the best all around rifle. The .327 will have enough power to take a deer at closer range, while the weaker .32 S&W will kill small game without blowing them apart.
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try humping around carrying the bare equipment you think you will need and then add 1000 or 500 rounds of ammo for your rifle of choice and think about how easy it will be to resupply the ammo. and then the .22 rifle starts to look realy good, most places you may break into most likely will have .22 ammo (.22 shorts-longs-l.rifle) over the other calibers. we are not talking about rambo here, and what good will a dead moose-elk do for you, if you are moving you will only be able to carry so much. eastbank.
What you have, depending on how you set up the AR and Mossberg, should be good.
You said hunting, defense, and handle some abuse... for under $400. That last part is your hardest requirement.
The problem is that those requirements also lend themselves to much different rifles. Hunting... what are you wanting to kill? Small game, like rabbits or squirrels, would be fine with a .22. Deer, you can take with a 5.56mm... but it is kind of under powered for the task. Personally, I'd opt for a .30-30 or larger for that.
Defense, ARs are the way to go. If your jurisdiction allows it, five 30 round magazines would be enough to get you away from most threats. It isn't going to be a Rambo style war, and if you meet a sizable threat, you are likely going to die duking it out with them. If you don't feel comfortable with 30 rounds, toss a Magpul 60 round drum in your gun to start, and deal with the weight.
The AR has flexibility with upper conversions... but that is a lot of weight with uppers, magazines, and ammo. Even just an AR... with a basic load out, is going to be more weight if you are carrying what you need to survive.
I have a Ishapore 2A1... and it is a great gun. It is a No 1, Mk III... in .308, with a 12 round magazine (not something you are going to get extra magazines and swap it). Very easy to clean.
But the bad is that it is a No 1, Mk III. They were used for some time in India, along side the FAL, but bolt actions aren't really the best for military situations. They are heavy, and even if you have stripper clips, the load out weight is going to be a bit much. Not to mention... it is a long gun (few inches shorter than a 91/30).
I really don't recommend rifles for these threads, being I think the chances of it going down the way most people think it will are remote... and also, I have most of the guns mentioned so far. No need for me to decide... because if I need something, I'll just pull it out of the safe.
A Garand works, but if you don't have an adjustable gas plug, you are stuck with M2 ammo. Most commercial.30-06 will bend the op-rod (shooting an amount of them... one or two rounds would be an issue). But if you maintain the gun, and watch what loads into it, it will last for a while. Over your price range... even at CMP (best source of them).
An SKS is a good choice, but it is usually a ten round gun... or modified for more capacity. With the latter, make sure it functions. Just over your price range, as they dried up fast.
Mentioned the AR, but an AK is just a cheaper cousin. Very good rifle, just doesn't have the convertibility of the AR. Even in AWB states, you still see people shooting compliant models... so, they span the country like an AR. You can find WASRs in the price range to a hair over... but most others go above.
The M1A is nice rifle. Gives you .308 power, with repeatability of a semi auto. Mounting a scope is a pain/costly. Not to mention, M1As are expensive. You can find deals... but deals with them are a early 1990s NM rifle (built off USGI parts), for $1,700... which had less than 50 rounds through it.
A .30-30 or comparable lever action would be a good choice, and give you the ability to fire a round or two further away (LeverEvolution ammo, and figure out what it does ballistically) if you need to get out of the area. Can find one under the price range... if you look used.
A budget hunt rifle works, and can be found at most hunting stores. If you wait for it, you usually can get one during a sale for dirt cheap. Accuracy is dependent on the gun/ammo, but usually can get an ok scope (they usually don't have iron sights) and do minute of deer out to 200 yards. Probably can do one with scope at or slightly above your price range. These are the only ones I don't own, being I have rifles that can fill the void.
While it was out of your range, I did find a nice Remington Model 7 that my FFL picked up used. Yanked the Leupold 2-7x off and added a Leupold 4.5-14x. You find decent rifles at gun shops... usually lightly used hunting rifles that were sold off because the owner got something better, didn't hunt with it and got rid of it, or died and the spouse/kids didn't want it.
I'd say, buy a gun you want... not one preparing for a situation that might not come. If you want an SKS... put money away until you can buy a good one. If you want a M1A, save up for a little bit longer, and get one. Ishapore rifles can be found at about your price range... but why get a bolt action .308 that was made in the 1960s if you don't want it? I really don't recommend compromising in this situation.
Hunter Customs
New member
Which is exactly what I figure I'll have to do and the older I get the lighter I prefer the load I have to carry to be.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
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