Best caliber for self defense
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The Verminator
Moderator
Maybe I should have dropped a caveat--I respect the wisdom of the FBI in choosing the 9mm..........which may be the only thing I can think of.
Their choice of the 9mm is wise for their situation........it may be the best all around choice that can work well for most people.
The Verminator
Moderator
Reminds me of my old Swedish grandma who used to say "There's no such thing as bad weather--just bad clothing."
The Verminator
Moderator
Where do you live that you witness so many gun battles?
1972RedNeck
New member
Join your local ambulance crew and you might be surprised at the number of gunshot wounds in your area.
The Verminator
Moderator
Of course.
But........the FBI has a lot of experience in choosing firearms, maybe even more than some of us..........and their choice has to be something that will work for a general cross section of human beings.
The 1986 Miami shootout was instructive.........the 9mm slug that stopped just an inch or two short of the heart of the killer who went on to blow away several agents.
Apparently they trust today's ammo more than what was available at that time.
This link has some good info on the history that informs the FBI........it's a lot.
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/fbi-guns-ammo-history/
The Verminator
Moderator
Mike Irwin
Staff
For many, many years my primary CCW cartridge has been .38 Special in a Smith & Wesson J frame Centennial.
My other primary has been a Taurus PT-22 in .22 Long Rifle.
Yes, I have carried other guns over the years, chambered in .357 Mag, 9mm, and .32 ACP.
I've felt suitably armed with each of them.
Why?
Two reasons.
1. I know the guns are reliable in service.
2. I know that I can handle them well and hit with them repeatedly at likely combat distances.
My other primary has been a Taurus PT-22 in .22 Long Rifle.
Yes, I have carried other guns over the years, chambered in .357 Mag, 9mm, and .32 ACP.
I've felt suitably armed with each of them.
Why?
Two reasons.
1. I know the guns are reliable in service.
2. I know that I can handle them well and hit with them repeatedly at likely combat distances.
PatientWolf
New member
After extensive research I’ve found with 100% certainty that the best caliber for self defense is the one you have with you (as opposed to the one you left at home).
The Verminator
Moderator
georgehwbush
New member
well, i think: there should be some questions asked first.
1. are you going to practice with the weapon more than one box full of ammo in a life time ?
this will indicate the probable cleaning and care rutine, which will in turn indicate the action type and style of gun to reccomend.
2. can you handle _____ cal weapons...
this will indicate the upper end limitations.
3. are you willing to have the weapon taken away from you and used on you, if you make a stupid mistake with it... (try to bluff with it...)
this will hopefully cause the person asking the question, to think about the consequences of as well as the responsibilities of carring a weapon.
3. what caliber do you like ?
and that will settle the issue for most people.
just remember "senior members" while we are not a few, we may very well be the minority in the gun owners community.
just one more thing, when i think about caring my 1911 45acp i remind myself "it's not about the odds, it's about the stakes" the odds are you wont need it. the stakes are life and death.
1. are you going to practice with the weapon more than one box full of ammo in a life time ?
this will indicate the probable cleaning and care rutine, which will in turn indicate the action type and style of gun to reccomend.
2. can you handle _____ cal weapons...
this will indicate the upper end limitations.
3. are you willing to have the weapon taken away from you and used on you, if you make a stupid mistake with it... (try to bluff with it...)
this will hopefully cause the person asking the question, to think about the consequences of as well as the responsibilities of carring a weapon.
3. what caliber do you like ?
and that will settle the issue for most people.
just remember "senior members" while we are not a few, we may very well be the minority in the gun owners community.
just one more thing, when i think about caring my 1911 45acp i remind myself "it's not about the odds, it's about the stakes" the odds are you wont need it. the stakes are life and death.
This is the OP's question.
Also stated was "all my other pistols have been 9mm" so the OP is not unfamiliar with handgun ownership, and the basic questions beginners need to ask and answer.
For me, the .45ACP is better.
I never cared for the .40S&W, and don't own any. Yes, I have shot them, just didn't find them to do anything I didn't already have well covered, and that I had well covered for 30+ years before the .40S&W existed.
I'm not a cop. I'm not the FBI. Haven't been a solider in 45+ years. I don't need a round that "most people" can use, I don't need a round that works best for a law enforcement organization's rank and file. What I need is what works best, for me, and the .45ACP covers every base, more than well enough.
Feel free to disagree.
The Verminator
Moderator
Yeah.........now you need to get a Glock 30 to go with your carbine.For me it would be a 9mm with 124+P or my 40 S&W with 155 Silver Tips, depending on my mood
Although, my new Father’s Day present, a Ruger LC CARBINE 45 does kinda muddy the waters
You're never going to get a satisfactory answer to this question because there isn't even a consensus on what makes a given caliber effective or ineffective, much less which one is most or least effective. Also, even if there were a consensus about which caliber is most effective, nothing exists in a vacuum and other attributes besides the caliber play into what is a good or poor choice of defensive handgun. For example, I have little doubt that a center-of-mass hit with a .500 S&W Magnum would probably be very effective in incapacitating most people, but a great many people cannot handle the huge amount of recoil nor do they want to tote around the massive revolver necessary to fire such a cartridge. Conversely, most would agree that .22 Long Rifle is pretty low on anyone's list of effective personal protection calibers, but a great many people still choose to rely on them because they can be had in very small, light guns and the guns and ammunition are widely available and modestly priced.
IMHO, trying to compare two calibers of similar power like .40 S&W and .45 ACP often boils down to splitting hairs. The way I view it, handgun cartridges can be divided into three basic categories and cartridges within those categories generally behave pretty similarly to each other. The categories are, in ascending order of power, pocket pistols/mouse guns like .22 LR, .25 ACP, .32 ACP, etc. Service calibers like 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, etc. and Magnums like .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .454 Casull etc. There are also calibers that can be considered "transitionary" in that, depending on the individual loading and barrel length, they can straddle the line between one category and another. Examples of calibers that straddle the line between "mouse gun" and "service caliber" would be .380 ACP and .38 Special and examples which straddle the line between "service caliber" and "magnum" would be .357 Magnum and 10mm Auto.
If I think about it long enough, I could probably make a logical, if not compelling, case for circumstances in which about any caliber from .22 Long Rifle up to .44 Magnum would be a reasonable choice for personal protection. Most of the calibers we're talking about have been around for at least 30 years, and many for over 100 years, they wouldn't still be available today if they weren't useful.
IMHO, trying to compare two calibers of similar power like .40 S&W and .45 ACP often boils down to splitting hairs. The way I view it, handgun cartridges can be divided into three basic categories and cartridges within those categories generally behave pretty similarly to each other. The categories are, in ascending order of power, pocket pistols/mouse guns like .22 LR, .25 ACP, .32 ACP, etc. Service calibers like 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, etc. and Magnums like .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .454 Casull etc. There are also calibers that can be considered "transitionary" in that, depending on the individual loading and barrel length, they can straddle the line between one category and another. Examples of calibers that straddle the line between "mouse gun" and "service caliber" would be .380 ACP and .38 Special and examples which straddle the line between "service caliber" and "magnum" would be .357 Magnum and 10mm Auto.
If I think about it long enough, I could probably make a logical, if not compelling, case for circumstances in which about any caliber from .22 Long Rifle up to .44 Magnum would be a reasonable choice for personal protection. Most of the calibers we're talking about have been around for at least 30 years, and many for over 100 years, they wouldn't still be available today if they weren't useful.
The Verminator
Moderator
Clearly we CAN get a satisfactory answer to this question (unless you are a black and white thinker and a dedicated perfectionist").
The question was posed as "Best Caliber for Self Defense."
Note that it doesn't say "most deadly" or "most cost-effective" or "most accurate" or "most shootable."
None of these details are included........it just has to be the best on average over a wide spectrum of conditions.
So, it's not a black and white issue, but one where the shades of gray must all be considered and a reasonable and practical conclusion reached.
Thus the obvious answer is a round that works best for a wide variety of people and is cost-effective, reasonably accurate, has sufficient power and is widely available off the shelf and in a good variety of handguns that make it convenient to carry (either concealed or on duty).
It helps to reach this decision if this round is now gradually being adopted by the majority of law enforcement agencies because they favor it over the failed .40 S&W that was once thought to be the best all around choice for armed combat.
The clear and satisfactory answer is the 9mm Parabellum.
Parabellum' is Latin. It's the second half of a Latin phrase. 'Si vis pacem, para bellum.' It's basically, If you want peace, then [prepare for] war. So, parabellum can be interpreted as "prepare for war."
Aptly named. And many view it that way, for it is the most widely used wartime pistol cartridge in the history of the world.
I say this in full awareness that there are many recalcitrants like myself who will obstinately choose the .45 ACP or even the .22 LR as best (for them).
That is neither here nor there and not pertinent to the question posed by this thread.