Best Backwoods Gun

Of all of the 10mm votes, how many of you have one?

It's not an everyday cartridge. I don't know anyone with one, nor have a I met anyone with one. I've only read about it.

Is it gaining popularity?
 
My woods gun is a 10mm, Glock 29. I carry it with 200gr XTP's. Black bear and mountain lion are the main concerns in my area. 11 rounds available and I don't mind when it gets dirty, wet, and scratched from hiking and climbing over rocks.

Depending on the platform you want, semi auto or revolver, 10mm or .357 mag is what I would go with unless you're in moose/grizzly country.
 
Actually, no, I don't own a 10 mm, but I have considered it as a possible buy at some point. My woods guns are my Ruger SRH in .44 magnum and my Marlin .444 if I am truly in grizzly country and away from town.

The 10 mm does have some good attributes with ballistics similar to .357 magnum, but I like the reliability of a revolver more so than the SA but it is just a personal choice.
 
What about a carbine?

They may be heavier but you can sling them... I would think a carbine like the Ruger Deerstalker / .44 Carbine could be used anywhere from the Ozarks to Alaska to take down anything on the continent. Of course I don't know if it'll get you arrested for poaching.

Uhhh... the pistol I always think of in 10mm is the EAA Witness Hunter. A lot heavier than a Glock but also more controlability....


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Knowledge

When picking a firearm, start with the bullet first. Once you determine the bullet you want to deliver on target and the velocity, find cartridges that deliver. Then make a list of all the firearms that chamber that cartridge loaded to that performance level. Then pick from that list.

High energy bullets shred flesh. High momentum bullets break bone. Bears only get angry when you hurt them. To stop one fast, you have to break bone.

However, those were (originally) my concluding paragraphs. Here is my advice.

Know your threat. This advice applies equally well in the wilds of Africa, the woods of North Carolina or the streets of Washington D.C. (or their smoke-filled rooms, too).

Predators of the feline variety rarely attack from the front. Stealth hunters, you are unlikely to have enough time to draw a gun.

Bears, are defensive of their offspring and will attack (or run) without regard to your circumstances, but according to theirs. You might get warning. Around here, Brown/Grizzly bears, the conventional wisdom is to play dead. With our Black Bears, that tactic will get you eaten. Brownies don't favor humans for food and they are the top predator. Picky eaters. Black Bears, if they have not run from you, are just as likely to want to make a meal of you.

If you want to instantly stop any large predator no handgun is really adequate, though the 500 Smith comes darned close. Even a medium black bear can absorb a tremendous amount of energy and still eat your lunch (before dying itself). A mortally wounded bear can live for quite a long time before expiring. Unless you take out the central nervous system (hard shot to make) or break a major bone (enough to slow a bear down so you can take a more leisurely kill shot).

Across the Northern Tier, (Alaska, Canada, Greenland, Polar regions) bear spray has a MUCH better track record of keeping humans uninjured than firearms.

Of firearms, 12 Gauge with Brenneke slugs is highly favored. 45-70 Carbine is very popular. The 500 S&W is the most effective handgun, but expensive and heavy. Handguns are very hard to hit well with. My usual advice is to go to an outdoor area with a good backstop and a long, sloped area heading toward the firing line. Take a soccer ball (about the size of a bear's vitals, right?) and prop it on the slope with a piece of wood. Turn away from the ball. Have a friend shoot the prop out from under the ball (or if (s)he is not such a good shot, use a string) and when the ball is ten meters from you and rolling/bouncing at least 20 mph, your friend tells you to turn. Draw and fire. How many times can you hit it with a handgun? a shotgun? bear spray? Extra points if you can hit only the black spots on the ball.

The best way I know of to ruin a good fishing trip or hike in the woods is to shoot any animal in defense of life or property. Alaska Troopers investigate every DLP shoot. You are responsible to report the incident and to preserve the skull and hide. The State becomes the owner of the cape. You get to keep nothing but a copy of the investigation report and any pictures you manage to take (and the story, of course).

Spray a bear and you are morally obligated to report it (to keep other hikers safe), but you have preserved wildlife, taught a bear that humans are more trouble than they are worth and kept yourself safe.

Drawbacks of spray are that they are not reloadable, and if you have a second encounter, you may be short of ammunition.

When I am in the woods, I carry spray and a 454 Casull, but, given the choice, will use the spray first. If carrying only one, the spray. But not the wimpy anti-personnel sprays. 8-10 oz, 10% oleoresin capsicum (or the newer UDAP).

On .357 Magnums and barrel length: When the .357 was invented, it was designed when 6" barrels were the norm and 4" was considered a "shorty". To me, the .357 IS a 6" cartridge (or longer). With more modern powders, you give up less power in the 4" barrel than you did with the powders available in 1934, but a 33% cut in barrel length seems significant to me. My 454 is 7.5"; worn in a cross-draw holster on my strong side, it is right under my hand and fairly fast in presentation.

Bullet selection: Heavier is better, solid, hard cast with a wide meplat. Penetration to vitals is delivered by the weight. Hard cast keeps the bullet together and the flat front provides disruption.

Good luck. Thanks for asking our advice.

Lost Sheep
 
but after reading the thread it sounds like the consensus might be 10mm.

While I'm definetly a revolver fan you'll note in my posts that I don't think that a semi is a bad choice for woods carry. But you have to look at the demographics of the site you're on to see the ONLY reason the 10mm is making such a strong showing. Not saying it is bad, just that making a desision on it's vality for a woods gun is not a great idea from an informal poll/discussion on a SD based site. Heck, the semi auto section see's more action than general handguns and revolvers combined here a TFL.

What about a carbine?
You want to carry around 7-8lbs of dead weight plus ammo go right ahead. But in 99.99% of the lower 48 it's just that, dead weight. (Unless one is hunting that is.) In other words, very mall ninja-esk.

LK
 
To me, the .357 IS a 6" cartridge (or longer).

I don't know, I've killed several moose and a buffalo with my 4 in Model 28 Service Revolver, using 150 LSWC.

Both moose and buffalo are a bit bigger then mountain lions and 200 lb black bears.

I shot this guy when he was going after my patrol car. (see below)

Having said that, unless I'm hunting all I carry any more is my 642 in my pocket with the same bullet listed above only in 38 cases.

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I have two .357's and one .44 magnum. The .44 magnum is my Idaho woods gun and it works just fine. The .357 is obviously a great weapon as well as the moose kill above demonstrates, but I would point out that is a CNS shot to drop a moose like that. If you don't have CNS shot, then the .44 magnum will get a lot better penetration.

Lost Sheep, great tip on the bouncing soccer ball, what a perfect way to practice woods defense. I don't know about that shooting only the black spot trick, that is beyond my pay grade.

When we lived up in Anchorage, our firing range was the dug out bank behind our house at the top of O'malley road. In those days, the only thing behind us was several miles of wilderness, not so today. We shot when we wanted, my dad had a big bonfire when needed and no one at all said you could or couldn't do any of that. I suspect you couldn't do that anymore at the top of O'Malley road any longer. The lower 48 isn't the only place that has changed in the last 50 years.
 
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Of all of the 10mm votes, how many of you have one?

It's not an everyday cartridge. I don't know anyone with one, nor have a I met anyone with one. I've only read about it.

Is it gaining popularity?

Well, for whatever it is worth I own a Glock G20 and have for a few years. It is actually pretty common around Atlanta. The LGS always has a few in stock and a good supply of ammo. I am seriously considering the purchase of a Ruger Red Hawk .44 Magnum. However, not sure I would feel under-gunned with 16 rounds of 10mm at least in the Southeastern US which is what the OP asked about.
 
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While its no suprise that the 357 mag, 44 mag, and 10mm have been the top contenders of this post, I am suprised that no one has mentioned the 357 SIG. Isn't it suppose to be close at somewhat duplicating the ballistics of the 357 Magnum?

I think for the price a good Ruger or S&W 357 Magnum is goind to be hard to beat in what I've seen so far. I have yet to find a 44 Magnum in my price range. The only one I've seen was a Taurus. I have not heard good things about Taurus firearms, especially their customer service. I could have a Glock 10mm for less than what I've found any other 44 Mag. Any suggestions?
 
I have yet to find a 44 Magnum in my price range.

Yes, new .44 Magnums are kind of pricey and hard to find in the LGS. I have found a S&W 629 and Ruger Super Redhawk, but I really want a regular Redhawk and haven’t found locally yet. I may end up ordering one site unseen, but I really hate to do that. I may try to visit a gun show next month and at least have a lot of options to look at even if I do not buy anything. If you have the opportunity you might want to consider doing so also.
 
How bout the 10MM. I like it you think really hot loads HARD CAST out of a Delta Elite would be good. Im not really going to be in the woods anytime soon just curious as I like the catridge. I know its between a 357 mag and a 41 mag in terms of power. Any thoughs on the 10MM?
 
My current thinking puts the S&W Mountain Gun at the top of the pile for best woods gun. It is light weight and very packable for it's power level. Also comes in calibers that can be loaded or bought from mild to wild, in a wide variety of bullet shapes and sizes.

.44 mag / Special would be my caliber of choice.
 
The .44 magnum has been king of the hill of back woods guns for decades and for good reason, they get results. It is my first choice and I feel confident if I can learn how to shoot them well and be able to put a bullet where it needs to be, it will drop about anything in North America. Not at all the first choice for large Alaska bears, but it has killed quite a few of them nevertheless. Many want the reliability of a revolver for woods guns. Perhaps just an individual choice, but that is the way I look at it.
 
Now, if i was in Alaska, different story. I'd want the largest magnum my hip could stand! I'd 100% be looking at a S&W 500 magnum.

How did we ever survive up here before those were invented??? :confused:

Just about any .357, .41, .44, or .45 Colt will serve your needs in the L48 just fine. Just make sure you use a hardcast bullet that'll crash through lotsa muscle and bone.
 
stevelyn
Senior Member

Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell
Posts: 2,345
Quote:
Now, if i was in Alaska, different story. I'd want the largest magnum my hip could stand! I'd 100% be looking at a S&W 500 magnum.
How did we ever survive up here before those were invented???

Just about any .357, .41, .44, or .45 Colt will serve your needs in the L48 just fine. Just make sure you use a hardcast bullet that'll crash through lotsa muscle and bone.
__________________
McCain/PALIN '08

Squished bugs on a windshield is proof the slow/heavy bullet theory works.

People simply took their 30-06 everywhere with them in Alaska in the back window of their trucks. That was what my dad when we lived in Alaska in the 1950's and 60's. On the other hand, the critters were more scared of us back in those days and you hardly ever saw predators unless you were looking for them, at least in the Anchorage area that is. We ran around the woods as kids without ever thinking about bears. I suspect parents don't let the kids do what we did anymore.
 
Advice

If you really have lived in western NC for a number of years and are just now asking for this advice, here on this forum ......... then my advice is 1) stay out of the woods, 2) move to where you don't need this type of advice.

The city-fied version would be, "I've lived in south Philly for several years, what gun should I carry".
 
If carrying a .357 magnum, remember to file off the front blade site. That way it won't hurt when the bear shoves up your rear.

Seriously, I've backed packed in New England, the Pacific Northwest, and Montana. I've come across black bear, brown bear, and cougar. I have never carried a gun with me. They are heavy and I already am carrying enough crap with me. Also, it's not allowed to carry guns in National Parks, regardless of what the wild life may or may not do. My wife is a field biologist who spent years in the back woods of Alaska, and didn't carry a gun. They had shotguns if they wanted them, but again heavy. Another friend of mine worked for the state of California. The only time he carried a gun was when the police called Fish and Game to dispatch a maimed deer. And when he lived in his apartment in Crescent City. The only person I have known who regularly carried a handgun was a female graduate student who was afraid of being raped when she was out in the field in eastern Oregon. She had a Taurus 0.357 magnum.

I guess, why do you need to carry a gun in the woods? People are the biggest threat. The cats are going to jump on your head from behind and bears, for the most part, are totally uninterested in people.
 
Eastern and Southern States - 4 inch 357 Magnum with 180-185 grain hardcast bullets
Western and Mountains - 4 inch Redhawk 45LC with 325 grain Buffalo Bore bullets at 1275 fps.
Alaska - 12 Gauge with Brennekes

Some thoughts -
357 ammo is available everywhere. 38 and 357 brass can be found on the floor and in the bins at most ranges (especially 38). The cartridge is easy to reload and cheap. You will practice alot with this. 357 and 38 brass lasts a long time and I never lose any at the range. I've never had to buy 357 or 38 brass although sometimes I buy some cheap ammo at Walmart to shoot at the range and then reuse the brass. This is the most economical woods gun for me.

10mm is very interesting and can be loaded almost to 41Mag levels but I'm always turned off by the fact that I never find any 10mm brass at the range. It's expensive to buy brass and it gets lost easily at the range. It's hard to find loaded ammo and it's expensive too. I'd like to get a 1911 in 10mm someday but it's not an economical choice.

45acp - too slow for me. I like to shoot "heavy for caliber" bullets at 1100-1200 fps. The 45acp can't shoot at 250 grain bullet at that speed. Buffalo Bore offers a 255gr hardcast 45acp at 960fps. My 45LC revolver can go way beyond that. Not even a close comparison. Had an XD45. Sold it.

There are many people who will say that a 255gr bullet at 960fps is good enough. They are probably correct but I can handle 1100 fps easily and that's what I like.

btw - I also like 44 Mag and a 4 inch 44M is as good as a 4 inch 45LC but my 44M is a 5.5 inch Redhawk and that's a little too big and heavy for hiking. I like 4 inch handguns the best for hiking.
 
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