Best backup boot gun for LEO

all too often a "backup" gun becomes a "throw down" gun
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So, how is that when the serial number is recorded when you qualify with it? It will take 15 minutes to go through records and figure out the bad guys gun was one you qualified with for the past 10 years. In 20+ years and numerous case studies from around the country, I have never seen a case in which a "throw down" was part of the case. If that were the case, I would have a "throw down" knife that couldn't be traced. The idea of a "throw down" is Hollywood lore and wive's tales. I'm sure it has happened, but not often enough that it's "a thing".

Unless of course you carry a file in your pocket and stand around at the shooting scene filing on the "bad guy's gun". And the FBI allows a BUG, and have for years (Miami shootout in 1985 they were there), the DEA allows a BUG, and the ATF actually ISSUE a BUG from a list the agent can choose from (at least this was case a couple of years ago).

I only PERSONALLY know of 1 department that forbids them, and that's a local department in my area that's more of a group of night watchmen than a police department and are the laughing stock of the area anyway.

As far as cost, I understand the budget constraints, but I don't advocate the department issuing guns and requiring a certain gun to be carried anyway for the reasons mentioned above. In that case, money plays no role to the agency as far as how much a particular gun costs anyway, except for the PIA of ordering ammo in 4 or 5 different calibers instead of 1.
 
My agency has always been where they mandate a certain weapon and we purchase it. Our basic policy is any .40 S&W Glock except no G27 for uniformed officers...except as a BUG.

I was grandfathered in before that policy so I carried several other makes and models, and I carried 9mm when that was the policy.

Our policy also has it that EVERY firearm that we carry and/or use has to be qualified with before doing so. That goes for shotguns, rifles and handguns. So...if I ever carried a BUG, it would have to be qualified with it, and because of that, there is a record of it. I'm sure that policy wasn't made to discourage throw downs but it sure cuts it down at the knees.

As for violating policy, you physically can do what you want but you will be facing a host of problems. I knew a guy who carried a shotgun when he wasn't authorized, but as far as I know, he was never caught before he retired. If he ever had to use it, other than not being qualified with it and not being authorized to carry it, he may be alive but probably without a job and probable legal woes.
 
I spent 22 years with a large department, 16 years with a smaller one. Another year and a half with a large department crime lab. Responded to the scene of many shootings and was at lots of postmortems, etc. I don't pretend to be an expert on throw down guns or fabrication of evidence, but I never saw or even heard of a BUG being used as a "throw down" gun at the scene of an officer involved shooting or incident of any kind. I think that "all too often a backup gun becomes a throw down gun" perception by the public might be a misperception as a result of television cop shows and movies.....ymmv
 
James K said:
Yes, there are departments and agencies that ban backups; IIRC, the FBI is, or at least was, one of them. The reason is that all too often a "backup" gun becomes a "throw down" gun, and that is frowned on by a lot of folks up the food chain. (Planting evidence, filing a false report, lying under oath, etc.)
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If a primary and backup gun of an law enforcement officer are both registered, then I'm not sure how a backup gun could be any more of a throw down gun than the primary gun.
 
There are plenty of compact and subcompact pistols out there. I recommend he go try out a few to see what he likes.

Some off the top of my head to look for:
Springfield XDS
Glock 26
Glock 43
Glock 42
S&W M&P Shield
S&W Air-weight revolvers
Ruger LCP
Ruger LC9
Ruger LCR
Sig 938
Sig 238
Kel-tec PF9
Kel-tec P3at
Kahr PM9
 
I am not a police officer, nor do I live in a shall-issue state (though I do have a UT non-res permit), but I have been on a bit of a CCW sized pistol kick for several years now. There are a ton of good smaller CCW options out there, and of course, you should get your son what he decides he wants since a deep cover gun (civilian CCW or police backup) choice is so personal. However, my choice if I was a police officer looking for a backup would be one of the following:

1) A small snub. I no longer really trust 5-shots of .38+P as my CCW gun (when in a state where I can carry), but in a backup gun situation I think it may be ideal. Ankle carry is probably a good option for a backup gun (doesn't weigh down the belt with everything else riding on it, easily accessible when driving, or when on the ground in a confrontation which is much more likely for a cop than the rest of us) and few guns carry better on an ankle than a small revolver. If carried in a manner other than an ankle holster, I think a small snub is still my first choice for this use. They are reliable, and with fewer exposed moving parts, they are less likely to be affected by the dirt and schmutz a backup gun may be subject to. If you aren't crazy about the 5-shot capacity, a Rossi 461/462 (6-shots) or Taurus 617 (7-shots) could be good choices.

2) You said that his duty gun will be a G17. In that case I'd go with a G26 if I didn't go with the revolver. I like the idea of a compact version of the officer's duty gun for several reasons. The advantages of familiarity and keeping it simple re. the manual of arms can't be overlooked. Also, in many cases, the compact and subcompact versions of duty pistols can take the full-sized gun's mag for reloads. So, if you are forced to used your backup gun, you will still have full capacity reloads.


Of course, as others more knowledgeable than I (police officers) have said, many departments have approved off-duty/backup guns so be sure to cross reference their lists (though I doubt any that allow backup guns ban snubs or the subcompact versions of their duty pistols).
 
I think that "all too often a backup gun becomes a throw down gun" perception by the public might be a misperception as a result of television cop shows and movies.
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~That is how a lot of policy makers make their decisions. Mel Gibson told us that teflon coated bullets were "cop killers" meant to punch holes in body armor, so Winchester pulled the Black Talon line after some bad publicity. Never mind that it did the opposite of the claim.
~Bruce Willis sad "The 'Glock 7' is a porcelain gun made in Germany and it goes through metal detectors". Never mind that ALL of that statement is wrong, some politicians think it is true.
~Movie Silencers are super sneaky ninja assassin sniper rifle killing devices in Hollywood, so they make them hard to get. Never mind that a gunshot from a .308 WILL wake the neighbors, silencer or no.

It makes little difference to the political ladder climbing slime balls what the truth is. They only care what the public/brass perception is.
 
So, how is that when the serial number is recorded when you qualify with it? It will take 15 minutes to go through records and figure out the bad guys gun was one you qualified with for the past 10 years. In 20+ years and numerous case studies from around the country, I have never seen a case in which a "throw down" was part of the case. If that were the case, I would have a "throw down" knife that couldn't be traced. The idea of a "throw down" is Hollywood lore and wive's tales. I'm sure it has happened, but not often enough that it's "a thing".
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While I suspect that BUGs are almost never used as throw down guns, I imagine that if it did happen the story would be something like, "He found my BUG during the struggle. I managed to get free and create some distance while drawing my service weapon. I ordered him to drop the gun, but instead he swung it in my direction and being in immediate fear for my life I discharged my weapon repeatedly until he went down and was no longer a threat."
 
im a cop. the Glock 26 has been on my ankle for about a decade now. I chose that because my issued sidearm is a G17. if I were issued a G22 I'd have went with a G27. the magazine compatibility is a key component when you work short handed all the time. find out what the issued sidearm will be for his department, this will help you make better decisions. of course you could just ask your son. ;)

I started with a S&W 3913NL in 1991 as my ankle gun. then went to a S&W 640-1 .357mag, then to the Glock 26. my advise for any cop working for a department that forbids you from carrying a second gun, is to leave and fast.
 
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The BUG is your last-ditch, service-weapon-lost-or-empty, Hail Mary weapon. Absolute reliability would be my chief concern, leading me to carrying a revolver.

If you've expended all your ammo because you are a lousy shot, or facing a mob of assailants, an 8-round magazine vs. 5 or 6 rounds in a cylinder is not going to deliver you from evil. A failure to feed, or time to rack a slide, however, may be crucial instants lost in your time of need.
 
kilimanjaro said:
The BUG is your last-ditch, service-weapon-lost-or-empty, Hail Mary weapon. Absolute reliability would be my chief concern, leading me to carrying a revolver.

If you've expended all your ammo because you are a lousy shot, or facing a mob of assailants, an 8-round magazine vs. 5 or 6 rounds in a cylinder is not going to deliver you from evil. A failure to feed, or time to rack a slide, however, may be crucial instants lost in your time of need.
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While I agree with your point (and your reccomendation for a small revolver as a BUG), I think there is wisdom in carrying a "baby" version of one's duty weapon as a BUG, specifically for cases of malfunction or loss of one's primary duty weapon. A loss of a duty weapon (for whatever reason) should not negate the 1-2 extra magazines that would typically be carried while on duty.
 
The LEO's of my local knowledge all use J-frame Smiths. Their comments revolve around the amount of debris with a boot or more often, ankle carry. They feel that the revolver does a better job of keeping its reliability in that environment. Their comments (4 of them), not mine. They also feel that the use of that weapon, from that position, mandates a point and shoot use...no time for a safety that's been left on, a magazine that's been inadvertently partially released, etc.

Masaad Ayoob, noted firearms and CC instructor, made the same kind of comments regarding boot or ankle carry.

JMHO, YMMV, Rod
 
It would depend on what his issue pistol is. I'd consider someting smaller with the same or similar manual of arms.

I've read of a cop taping a North American Arms .22 LR revolver to the back of his badge as a backup backup gun. I like that idea.
 
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rodfac, Thanks for posting that info about Mas' and other LE guy's opinions. I thought I'd probably be the odd man out in recommending something as "Old Timey" as a revolver;)
 
I personally know a NCHP officer who used his PPK 380, carried in a ankle holster, to kill a drunk who attacked him and got control of his Beretta 92.

Their regulations stated any backup guns had to be 100% concealed, and even though they were struggling on the ground he was able to get to the ankle gun before he was shot himself.
 
First, check department policy about whether BUGs are permitted and, if so, if there are caliber requirements, etc..

Next, consider the duty weapon. If a compact version of it is available, it might be a good choice for a BUG/CCW. Having it in the same caliber means you can use duty ammo, also.

You need a holster for those, and I've seen guys carry them attached to the vest inside the shirt for a support-hand draw.

I personally carry a J-frame airweight concealed hammer .38+P revolver much of the time, and find it slips into a support-side cargo pocket inside a pocket holster quite well.

I don't have any experience with the newer ultra-compacts. As far as the mouse-guns, I guess it's better than nothing in an extreme retention or hostage situation...
 
One BUG option: Colt New Agent - in man-stopping .45acp.

It's a light-weight, non-bulky, single-stack package that's reliable, with a snag-free "gutter sight" and 7+1 capacity.

I have one, and once you get practiced with how to hold and aim that gutter (or "trough") sight, you can easily and consistently hit COM - especially at the quite short distances from which you'd be firing at a bad guy in a last-stand defense.
 
BUG

I believe a BUG is a great idea for many reasons, guns may break or fail, a spare gun is good.

I do not like ankle holsters, I have worn them, I walked funny, they were not comfy, I had a Bianci ankle holster, walking into a precinct, my model 36 popped out and snickity snick
, landed in plain sight of some Detectives, very embarrassing.

As far as a BUG being used as a throwdown, I never heard such B.S. except from non police officers that do not understand firearms acquisition and reporting, every gun a cop buys is registered on department records and a 4473, at the gun store or police armory records etc....... if you have cops willing to use ( illegally aquired guns as ) throwdowns,
You have really BIG TROUBLE !!!!

Some departments have Duty / off Duty guns, they stay silent about BUGs, and neither advocate nor prohibit them or specifically train in their use, or prosecute an Officer for using one.
That is the best possible policy, and encourage target practice with both duty and off duty guns.
 
A few LEOs I know have been adding small .380s (LCP, Kel Tec, Bodyguard) in Sneaky Pete holsters to the gun belt.
 
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