Best 45acp powder , with specific requirements

Nick :

Thanks that's the type of replies I'm hoping for . I was thinking of switching to 185gr bullets with the Titegroup ??? You feel maybe the 200gr bullets are better ?? You need not stick to the powders I have . Right now I see we have Universal and N340 being suggested . I was considering N320 . I'll likely be buying something new on the 9th of July

Anyone have opinions or use these powders for the purposes outlined above ?
 
NO ! scorched or sooty cases , NONE !!!!
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Run your tumbler a few minutes longer.

I shoot a lot of 45's, probably 95% with Win 231.

Never noticed it being dirty or sooty, but I must admit that I've never really paid that much attention to fired cases. They all go into the tumbler together (mine and whatever other people have left on the range) and they all come out shiny like new.

The fact that N340 is $32.84/lb and Win 231 is $19.88/lb at MidSouth is enough to keep me away from the N340.

If you're really stuck on clean and pretty fired cases, find out what Federal uses in their small-primer 45 ACP. Luckily that stuff looks like a mirror on the inside, makes it easy to pick it out from the large-primer cases!
 
I've found that Bullseye burns very clean with plated/jacketed/coated in .45 auto. I think it's 'dirty' reputation came from use with lead bullets.
Meters perfectly for me in my rotary measure. Works with the lightest loads all the way up to full power 230 loads. It's all I use now.

Clays and N310 are probably the cleanest shooting powder out there, both are superb target powders, but they are not a good choice for full power 230 ammo.

VV N320 might be the powder you're looking for, but I've never found it locally, so I've never tried it.

Scorched cases? Probably just soot from low temps/low pressure.
 
Dirty Powder

IMO powders are not "dirty" or "clean". No powder is always dirty or always clean. It is a fallacy to think such exists.

Powder burning cleanliness is not determined by the POWDER. It is determined by the LOAD you are using for that powder, and whether, or not, you are in the intended pressure range for that powder.

If you use too slow a powder you can see unburnt particles down the barrel after you shoot.

If you want the cleanest possible powder burn: use a fast powder at maximum load. Consulting Alliant 45 Auto data (not +P) that would be this:
230-gr FMJ BE-86 Fed. 150 Federal 1.265 7.1 943
If that is not clean and fast enough for you, good luck with the farting unicorn.
I have not used BE-86 yet, but always found Bullseye to burn cleanly, but then I do NOT shot cast lead bullets, ever. If you think Bullseye is dirty and you are shooting lead, try plated. I bet they run a LOT "cleaner". That means the "dirty" was lead residue.
 
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Never noticed it being dirty or sooty, but I must admit that I've never really paid that much attention to fired cases. They all go into the tumbler together
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Although I use the term sooty burnt "cases" . The result of that happening is causing the same effect to happen in your chamber and gun as a whole . If you're getting blow back on your cases . You're getting blow back everywhere .
 
I was thinking of switching to 185gr bullets with the Titegroup ??? You feel maybe the 200gr bullets are better ??
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TG will run 185's nicely - assuming you mean plated or jacketed. 185-200 tomato-tomoto. Basically, the heavier the bullet, the more consistent and cleaner the burn. The trade-off being that the heavier the bullet, the steeper the pressure curve (for a given propellant). This is where your "temperamental" starts rearing its head. I'm a fan of the heavies myself. But in 45 ACP, I run everything from 185 to 230. TG is a great choice for lighter plated (or jacketed) bullets.

You need not stick to the powders I have.
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There's lots of good ones. Other propellants I have good luck with 45 ACP:

Bullseye - mentioned already; but its graphite coating keeps it "residuey". Still a great choice for lead target bullets of all weights.

W231/HP-38 - A clean burner. Great for all weights; but best with lighter. Lead/plated/jacketed matters not. Great stuff. Will do everything except max velocity.

AA#2 - meters better than any other propellant - period. Same burn range as TG. I've had excellent luck with it in 45 ACP. Prefers lighter bullets. Won't get you max velocity.

AA#5 - meters almost as good as #2, and at least as good as TG. Better for heavies and/or more velocity.

Power Pistol - makes bullets go fast. Its easy ignition and clean burn makes it a good choice for hot rounds of all weights. Although, I tend to use it more with the lighter bullets (because of its easy ignition). Downside: its high-energy also makes it temperamental. Another reason why I tend to move from PP to HS-6 when I'm making heavies go fast.

Right now I see we have Universal and N340 being suggested . I was considering N320 . Anyone have opinions or use these powders for the purposes outlined above?
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Not directly. I only have Vihtavuori experience with N310. It's super-duper fast and so I only use it for pure target 38 Special; and bunny fart 200 LSWC rounds for my target 1911 (12 Lb recoil spring). But I will tell you it's hard to go wrong with Vihtavuori powders. It's the Cadillac of propellants. Use the one with the right burn rate for the application, and some fine ammunition will be made. For the applications you mentioned, N320 would likely do most all except making those 230 JHPs go 900 f/s. To make those heavies go fast, N330 or N340 would likely be the better choice (I would tend to think N330 myself).
 
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You think your .45 is dirty with the powders you have try running one suppressed. 100rds makes the gun look like it hasn't been cleaned for over 1000k rounds.
 
Folks over at THR forum are talking up BE-86 pretty heavy. You might want to check it out, about the speed as Unique.
 
Dinosaur here

So, maybe not much help in your quest.

Titegroup
WSF
HS-6
CFE-pistol
Auto comp
Longshot
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Been reloading .45ACP since the early 70s, and have never used any of the powders on your list. used Bullseye and Unique, mostly, though I have tried the Hercules "dot" powders, REd, Green, and Blue. Blue Dot is only good in the ACP in certain loads, fired from longer revolver barrels. The others are "meh", meaning ok, but not great,

I'm not crazy about powder having to "burn clean" meaning little smoke, clean to me means no or few unburnt powder granules.

Years ago, I settled on Unique. I don't shoot plated bullets, I shoot cast (200SWC and 230RN) or jacketed. I run the ammo through various Govt models (1911A1s) SIG P220, Ruger Blackhawk revolver, Auto Ordnance M1927A! (semi auto tommygun) and a TC Contender. I also use .45ACP COMPONENTS to load for a 1917 Webley Mk VI.

For me, Unique does it all in .45ACP. Bullseye (or Win 231) is a little "cleaner" but tops out in velocity before Unique does when you hit the pressure wall.

And, no, it doesn't meter quite as well as a ball powder, but I'm also ok with that.

I don't think a powder that meets ALL your wants exists. If you do find one, by all means, SHARE! :D
 
"Powder burning cleanliness is not determined by the POWDER."

Composition most certainly does play into residue left in the bore. Unique and Red Dot leave far more bore residue (not just unburned powder granules) than does a modern ball powder like AA 5 or WW 231.
 
I will add that I have used just about all suitable powders in the 45 ACP, 9x19, 10mm, and so on.

The VV N340 is so far the best I have used with cast and jacketed bullets.

Very clean, good load density which eliminates ANY chance of double charge, good velocities, and what I find most amazing is that there is virtually no muzzle flash.

We have shot 9s in complete darkness and observed no flash at all.

So far, I think it is the cleanest handgun powder I have used since I started handloading in April, 1963.

I forgot to add that I bought two 4lb containers from Powder Valley last summer. The prices on the VV powders are a little higher than others, but I think worth it.
 
What Mike said 5. If you find a powder that meets your standards, please, let us know...
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Oh I will and if I take out the 900fps need there are already a few that do everything else .

"Powder burning cleanliness is not determined by the POWDER."
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Although I understand the point I'm not sure I agree . Can't you disprove any one part of reloading by doing another part wrong . "uniforming flash holes will give you a more consistent ES/SD" Well no ES/SD can be effected by how you hold the rifle , variances in powder charge , inconsistent bullet hold etc . So you can uniform the flash holes but if everything else you do is half cocked it won't matter . I'm sure there are many examples of that kind of thing .

Cleanliness of the powder burn must first start with the powder make up it self . You then can move on to how to get it to burn the cleanest it can with the components you have . I fully agree with the above quote if the title of the thread and all we were talking about was cleanest pistol powder . We how ever are not . I not only narrowed it down to a specific cartridge . I narrowed it down to 75% of the time it will be a specific bullet . I know and others have shown , that is enough to give reasonable suggestions .
 
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If I take out the 900fps need, there are already a few (powders) that do everything else.
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Indeed.

TiteGroup will do it; although, you've got the heat/leading thing (as least, from my experience).

W231/HP-38 will do it. Nicely.

Bullseye will do it. Although, it runs a bit "residuey."

700X should do it. Although, I have no personal experience with it.

AA#2 will do it. Runs clean and can even be pumped up a little.

When viewed from a powder burn rate perspective, 45 ACP is a bit of a "wild card." Powder burn rates seem to "shift" slightly to the slower side. i.e., if you think of a powder's burn characteristics in - say - 9mm, in 45 ACP, it won't act that way. It'll act slower.

Case in point: Bullseye is well known to be fast and energetic. In most chamberings, it is a propellant to be worked up carefully. Certainly not the propellant for a cavalier or reckless approach. But in 45 ACP, it is clearly more forgiving (or course, no load work up should be done in a cavalier or reckless manner). In 45 ACP, 230 grain slugs are commonly pushed to 800 f/s and beyond with Bullseye. Such is the nature of 45 ACP for whatever reason (I'm guessing it has something to do with the large caliber, coupled with the low pressure).

Point is, in 45 ACP, propellants that are commonly thought of as "fast," actually behave surprisingly more to the "intermediate" side.

Subsequently, propellants that are typically thought of as "intermediate" are the slowest powders I will use for 45 ACP. Unique, Power Pistol, AA#5, and HS-6 are the slowest powders I will use. Move any farther down the burn rate scale (Blue Dot, 800X, N340, AA#7, so on), and you'll find yourself loading problematic ammo. I've tried AA#7 with 230 plated RN's. I got a ton of muzzle flash, unspent propellant, soot (and AA#7 is a clean burner), noise, and very little velocity increase. Just one example. Just my opinion.
 
Subsequently, propellants that are typically thought of as "intermediate" are the slowest powders I will use for 45 ACP. Unique, Power Pistol, AA#5, and HS-6 are the slowest powders I will use. Move any farther down the burn rate scale (Blue Dot, 800X, N340, AA#7, so on), and you'll find yourself loading problematic ammo.
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Going by Hodgdon's burn rates, VV N340 is faster than HS-6.

Going by Vihtavuori's chart, it is just a tad slower.

I don't disagree with your analysis of the burn rates in the 45ACP, I agree to a certain point.

I have used Blue Dot, Herco, HS-6, and of course VV N340 with excellent accuracy. But the N340 burns much cleaner in regard to unburned flakes being left in the barrel. Blue Dot & Herco leave lots flakes behind and we all know that Bullseye does as well even though it was the original powder and IIRC was developed for the 45 way back then.

I have not used any Accurate Powders as they have never been readily available in this area, and choose not to buy them online.
 
There is no "best" of anything, only what people here use for whatever reason.

What I use based on prior use, general usability, and price is Unique.

5.9-6.2gr w/ a 225-230gr bullet works fine.
 
I've tried a lot of different powders over the years but I keep going back to w231/HP38.
Does that MUF powder clean primer pockets as well, if so I'll buy a ton of it.:D
 
I don't disagree with your analysis of the burn rates in the 45ACP
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Most people do :p

Or at least, in general. Maybe not the powder's burn rates themselves, but in terms of which propellant to use for a given task. Put simply, compared to many handloaders, I am "fast powder centric."

When I think of an ammunition purpose and need to do a load workup, the first question that crosses my mind is: "What is the fastest powder I can use to accomplish this purpose?" Doesn't necessarily mean that is the powder I will use; point is, that's where my head is at.

I don't fear pressure. I respect pressure; but I don't fear pressure. Pressure is good. Pressure makes ammunition run right. Pressure minimizes flash and maximizes consistency. Only excessive pressure is bad.
 
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