best .40 S&W ammo for self defense

The Federal HST is at the top of the SD ammunition heap right now. This ammunition has the best overall expansion, penetration, weight retention and resistance to jacket separation, compared to the other premium ammo choices today. The link below is a series of tests funded by Federal but performed by LE departments showing the superiority over other LE ammuntion... Including other brands by Federal.

http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx

Federal Premium HST still costs less than other premium brands, as it is intended for LE consumption... Get it while you can.

hsttacticalle40it0.gif

Yes, it looks like this just about every time.
 
Priceless

I love this site, there is absolutely no tolerence for ignorant info...

You may want to read REAL facts and statistics before rendering boneheaded advice in the future. It might help get some of that egg off your face.
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Anyone claiming the 40 S&W is an inferior round just isn't looking at it objectively.
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You gonna volunteer to be shot with one to prove that nonsense?
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Are you also representing that a 9mm is ballistically superior to a .40??
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As a .40 S&W Owner i'd like to issue a formal thank you to all of the people who will not stand for Downputting Ignorant Advice.
 
+1 on the Federal HST ammo. Those Hollowpoints expanded beautifully, and with awesome reliability.

Has anyone not noticed how long and deep the skives are in the HST's jacket design?

Here is a photo of the .40 S&W HST round that I have loaded in my pistols. Just compare these skives, to other hollowpoints:


hst1_online.jpg



And here is the round again below on the left, next to a Winchester Ranger T. Again, you can see how the skives in the jacket are much longer and deeper than those on the Winchester T bullet.


HST_Ranger40_on.jpg
 
The .40 S&W has several confidence inspiring options to choose from; of which I recommend the better 180 grain varieties.
 
Best .40S+W Ammo

IMO Speer 165g Gold Dot Hollow point, Remington 165g Golden Saber, Speer 155g Gold Dot hollow Point and Federal 155g Hydra Shok would all be solid choices. Best is a pretty broad term and what's best can vary depending on what you're most likely to encounter. For instance the ability to defeat tactical obstacles is probably alot bigger factor for someone in LE than a private citizen. A little research and talking to some knowledgeable people should help you figure out what will work for you. It's your life after all!
BTW, opinions as to what is the BEST ammo in any given caliber vary widely and will probably stay one of the most hotly contested subjects even among those with real world experience!!! All any of us can do is try to educate ourselves and choose wisely. If your choice is based on what you feel is credible information don't sweat it if someone trys to tell you you're a complete idiot for choosing it. Opinions about best carry ammo vary that much even among experts!!!
 
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Read it and weep....

This was in the local paper "The Logan Banner" in June of 2007

>>>Man shoots self in leg at Mall



LOGAN — Local law enforcement officers rushed to the scene on Wednesday in response to an unusual call after an unnamed man accidentally shot himself.
Logan Police Chief David White said the man had apparently purchased either the weapon or the ammunition and had loaded the gun.
"He was in the parking lot sitting at the intersection and it discharged and went through his leg," Chief White said yesterday. "It was a .40 Caliber handun, but he may have just bought ammunition there. (Nationwide, Wal-Mart stores stopped selling handguns during the Clinton administration).
Patrolman A. Newsome responded to the call to investigate.
"The man drove himself on to Logan Regional and from what we understand he was transferred on to Charleston," White said. "This incident happened around 1 p.m. No charges were filed."
Ironically, it was not the only self inflicted injury area law enforcement officers handled on Wednesday as the Logan County Sheriff's Department looked into an incident where a man reportedly accidentally hurt himself with a knife earlier that morning. >>>

I have said this before, but people who are more into trendy than reality just don't remember- When I moved to where I live now, there was a major firefight that went down where a guy got shot 11 times with .40 weapons and kept fighting back even after his own gun ran empty. The cops had to beat on him with flashlights to subdue him.
One of the officers was a friend of mine and he told me point blank — It was like we were shooting him with BB guns —.
Not a week later there was a shooting with a 9mm and it was a one shot stop.

A few months after that there was another shooting where a bad guy soaked up 7 rounds of hot, trendy .40 caliber bullets in the next county over and guess what? He didnt' go down.

Meanwhile, local papers were declaring police brutality "because everybody knows you don't have to shoot somebody more than once or twice for them to fall down and stop."

I myself took a copy of an old Caliber Press book on law enforcement to the editor and showed him golly geewhilikers there are people who have been shot dozens of times and still kept on fighting back...

Now, that's reality. If you would rather fall for marketing hype, more power to ya. Me and the ghost of Elmer Keith will tip a brew in your memory if it turns out fatal for you.
But remember, think about what you will do if you shoot somebody with one of these overrated popguns and he doesn't fall down.
What happens if he stabs or shoots you, because you didn't Roarke him (Use Enough Gun)?
Almost as bad, what happens if you shoot a bad guy 11 times with your hot, trendy .40 and have to reload and the local press accuses you of brutality and goes on and on in editorials about how the fact you kept firing and reloaded shows you were murdering this poor bum?

I know of other stopping power failures but none as dramatic as the .40 ones.
One Williamson officer got shot in the leg during an altercation by a bad guy with a .38 snub and didn't realize it until later when filling out his report he felt something wet running into his socks. It was his own blood.
In Lexington, back in the 80s, there was a case where a deranged person got shot six times with .38s before he had to be wrestled to the ground by about half a dozen police officers.
Conversely, I don't know of any stopping power failures with the .357 magnum, which was also a popular duty weapon where I live now , and in Lexington when I lived back there.
I know of many 9mm shootings, most of them which ended after one, two or three rounds were fired.

You can make intelligent decisions about your own safety based on facts or you can have opinions based on wishful thinking and marketing and what's trendy. But an intelligent person will stick with the facts instead of getting their feelings hurt because they made a bad choice when it came to a defensive arm.

Its funny. People who choose poorly when it comes to firearms often can't take any reality. Look at the people who get bent out of shape when you try to explain to them, "uh, no buddy, you can't make a decent .380, 9mm or .40 out of zinc for under $200."

Honestly boys, nobody was more dissapointed in the failure of the .40 as a gunfighting tool than I was. As a hardcore Keith fan and Cooper trooper I foolishly beleived it just HAD to be better than the puny 9mm because it was bigger and had heavier bullets. After all, it was so much like the .38-40 revolver round which had a good rep for stopping power.
Sometimes a bullet looks more impressive on paper than it performs on the street.
Haven't you guys ever heard of Ed Sanow and Evan Marshall?
 
Honestly boys, nobody was more dissapointed in the failure of the .40 as a gunfighting tool than I was. As a hardcore Keith fan and Cooper trooper I foolishly beleived it just HAD to be better than the puny 9mm because it was bigger and had heavier bullets. After all, it was so much like the .38-40 revolver round which had a good rep for stopping power.
Sometimes a bullet looks more impressive on paper than it performs on the street.
Haven't you guys ever heard of Ed Sanow and Evan Marshall?
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Sure have. Some discount Evan's "studies," but you are aware that he did carry the 135 gr. Powerball in his .40 S&W Sig 229, right?

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8073&SearchTerms=.40+S&W

10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .40 S&W .135 gr. Pow-R-Ball

Testing Platform:
SIG 229 – 3.9” Barrel

Barrier:
4 Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 11.25"
Recovered Weight: 131.0 gr.
Expansion*: .710 cal.

* Expansion measured at widest point.
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Evan
Administrator


24943 Posts
Posted - March 06 2005 : 09:49:37 AM
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it's what I'm currently carrying in my P229 SIG
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Even if Evan no longer carries the .40 S&W, can you show me evidence where he arrives at the same conclusions as you have?
 
Most of us have heard of Sanow & Marshall, and most of us also know that their study is flawed, as it completely discounted shootings that involved more than one round. At best, the Marshall and Sanow study compiled an awesome table of incomplete data, and at its worst it's been used to extrapolate false conclusions from incomplete data by people who don't get statistics.

The kicker is that I'm not even taking issue with their study itself, because for what it actually represents, it's not bad - they do a good job of collecting data on which rounds produced one-shot stops. But because a gunfight is a dynamic event, there's no way to control for variable actions, such as target presentation, bone density, adrenaline levels, etc; but people don't care about that stuff and just take the data and assume that because the .445 Heffalump has a 90% one shot stop rate that it's the penultimate defensive round, surpassed only by the .666 Double Heffalump Magnum.

If I were to examine the anecdotal story presented about a guy shooting himself in the leg with a .40, there are HUGE problems with that, being that the leg is a lousy place to shoot someone if you're looking to produce a stop. If the bullet doesn't 1) shatter the femur, or 2) cut the femoral artery, it's most likely just going to zip through and through all the muscle and fat in your thigh. A .45 or 9mm would do the exact same thing in the same spot.

In this day and age, modern defensive ammo in common service cartridges (9mm, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .357 Sig, etc) are all designed to meet or exceed the FBI protocols, which set standards for penetration and expansion. Effectively, modern LE-marketed loads (Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, Winchester Rangers, all the other ones) are all designed to penetrate 12 inches or more while defeating common barriers and expand to .60 inches or greater, across the board in 9mm, .40, and .45 ACP.

Modern bullet design has a lot more to do with "stopping power" than the number that comes in front of your cartridge of choice.
 
Read it and weep....

This was in the local paper "The Logan Banner" in June of 2007

>>>Man shoots self in leg at Mall
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Please let me know when you put all your .45ACPs up for sale there sport.

http://www.wcbs880.com/pages/1157000.php?

Posted: Wednesday, 31 October 2007 10:55AM

Texas Man Shoots Himself in Both Legs While in Cubicle

FORT WORTH, TX (AP) -- A 47-year-old insurance company worker accidentally fired his gun in his office cubicle, shooting himself in both legs, police said.

The man, who hasn't been identified, had put his .45-caliber gun into his jacket pocket and then draped the jacket over the back of his chair Tuesday morning, said Brett McGuire, Lake Worth police chief. The gun discharged as the man settled into his chair.

McGuire said the man must have done something to make the weapon fire. The bullet passed through both of the man's legs and a bookcase before lodging in the wall of a cubicle.

There was no indication the man had brought the gun to target anyone, but rather he ``just felt the need to carry it,'' McGuire said.

``He wasn't having problems with his bosses or co-workers that we know of,'' McGuire said.

Police have no record of the man being licensed to carry a concealed weapon. He also appears to have violated his company's policy against bringing guns to work without company officials' permission.

Detectives will wait until the man, who was taken to a hospital, had recovered from his apparently non-life threatening injuries before deciding whether to pursue charges, McGuire said.
 
To inject a note of real-world experience here.

I have not -personally- ever shot anyone (Thank the Maker) however, during my LE career I was present on more than one occasion when a firearm was used against a human being.

Theory is all well and good but I've seen, with my own eyes, the mess that .40 cal, 165gr, Winchester Ranger SXT rounds can make of a human being.

I've also seen what 165gr Federal HST will do, first to a car window, then to the guy behind said window.

Based on that knowledge I would recommend either one for SD carry.
(I carry Ranger in my gun which is about the highest recommendation I can give. Doesn't mean it's the absolute best but it's what I've chosen to trust)

As for Mark Milton's comments,
I saw a man who had taken 3 .45 ACP rounds in the leg and buttock. Not only did he not die, he refused to go to the hospital and just kept walking around his house pointing to the damage to his siding. I also saw a man who had taken 2 .357 Magnum rounds to his arm and walk himself to the ambulance and then to the hospital and he didn't even loose his arm.

Hits to extremities are rarely fatal unless a major vein or artery is cut.
 
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Im with ZeSphectre on this one...

I have also seen with my own eyes the results of shootings with the .40 s&w.
Every time it produced the "stop" people are looking for (in one of the shootings the shot appeared to be instantly fatal).

I'm at a loss for words how someone who brings up Sanow and Marshal can take one story they read in the local penny-saver paper and dismiss and entire caliber of bullets.
 
thank you guys! i will ask around some more and try out some different kinds. I am leaning toward the Remington Golden Sabers, Corbon DPX, Gold Dots, or Federal Hydra Shocks...
 
Are you also representing that a 9mm is ballistically superior to a .40??

The Navy Seals would seem to think so, because a 9mm cartridge is what they use. Say the word and I'll back that up.
 
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