Beginner Checking For Case Separation

Did you note if you need any extra pressure to open the bolt on any of the fired rounds?
If you have any unfired rounds left send them back to Hornady along with photos or the actual suspect cases.
I once had issue with some factory rounds from Weatherby ammo. Had blown primers and extremely difficult to open chamber after firing. After contacting Weatherby that requested that I send the remaining rounds to them along with my Mark V .257 Weatherby.
they reimbursed me the cost of the ammunition and checked out the rifle at no cost to me.
 
Vanguard is the same thing as a Howa 1500 and factory headspacing is generally very consistent on both. Hornady's ammo is generally very consistent as well, so I don't think either is to "blame" just looking at the pictures. But those cases definitely have profound stretching/flow IMO.

I'm thinking there's something wrong with the bolt itself, either a dimension mismatch (maybe it's not the original) or something like a "frozen" ejector.

Browse any gun forum and you'll you'll probably find people who find something wrong with their rifles--and the solution is very often dump em and sell it to someone else.
 
stagpanther; yeah my first thought was, "is this an autoloader?" but then the difference in the shells led me to think "temp change?" so as far as i'm concerned the jury is still out.


also the brass looks like it just came out of a full length sizing die
 
I do indeed have much to learn and I appreciate all of you in helping me with that.

I understand that the measurements I made are total brass length and not a measurement of headspace. I posted those because I had been asked about how much the brass lengthened earlier and realized that I hadn't been very thorough.

Also, Hornady said there have been nothing wrong with those lots.

It might be nice to have a gunsmith look it over just in case.
 
The first time i shot it was around 80 and sunny and the other time about 95 and sunny, but I didn't store in a hot car or anything equivalent. I don't think the brass itself was exceptionally hot.

I didn't notice anything unusual about the ejection of the rounds.
 
khaines0625; yeah i have to agree with others in here, get your rifle checked by a smith. you need to know for sure what caused the ripped case before you hurt someone.
 
I had a gunsmith look it over. He tested headspace and did find that there is some excessive headspace in there. No-go did close with resistance, field didn't.

He said it was safe to use and that he didn't see it as having so much headspace that its necessarily a deal breaker. He recommended that I try out a different ammo manufacturer for now and see if I experience similar results.
 
First picture of 4 all different degrees of stretch.
The chamber isn’t moving around, it’s the ammo.
Like he said, shoot Something Else.

I had RP .25-06 cases with overly deep primer pockets.
 
I had a gunsmith look it over. He tested headspace and did find that there is some excessive headspace in there. No-go did close with resistance, field didn't.
Click to expand...
Did he strip the bolt when checking the headspace? Closing the bolt "with resistance" sounds to me like the ejector might still have been in.
 
https://www.nosler.com/25-06-remington. My resized 25-06 measure 2.190 from the bottom of the neck to the case head. Measure yours unfired case and see if it's much less than 2.186. If it's not put pieces of tape on the case head until your bolt gets hard to close then measure it. Do it in a safe place cause your working with a life round.
 
You bought a used gun. The dealer has no incentive to help, other than reputation. Maybe they can offer part of a barrel buy. Buy a new barrel from ER Shaw (210.00) and have a qualified gunsmith install it, chamber and headspace it, and test fire 3 rounds. As mentioned, the specs on the 25-06 are the same as the 30-06.
 
Jim Watson: yes "First picture of 4 all different degrees of stretch" was why i questioned about excess heat, but OP answered no. next i mentioned checking headspace OP said he did, i agree it still looks like an ammo issue. but one thing also i noticed is the head stamp is not flattened at all. normally hornady brass isn't that hard, and with high pressure it starts flatening the head stamp a little. (at least that is what i have seen)

i'm still wondering if there is more "wrong" with the gun. bolt flexing or something.... i agree try other ammo, but a busted case on factory loads is kinda rare, isn't it? and the "no go gage went" that's not a good thing.
 
Im late to the party here . If the ammo was sized to minimum and the rifle’s chamber is just short of a field gauge. This means the case can stretch as much as .011 . That is a HUGE amount of movement and why one of them cracked .

Changing ammo could help but IMHO you will continue to see this happen with factory ammo . I have a chamber that is basically the same thing and it’s a brass eater. The silver lining is you can custom size your brass to your looooong chamber and all is good . That said those custom sized rounds likely will not chamber in any other 25-06 rifle .

The other issue here is fire forming factory loaded rounds to get them blown out to your chambers size is going to compromise each piece of brass you fire . You’re best bet again IMHO is to by virgin brass and fire form it using the cream of wheat method or other that only blows the shoulder forward rather then stretching the case head back thinning the case walls . Once you have the new brass fire formed much closer to your actual chambers size . Just start bumping the shoulders back about .003 and that brass should last many loadings . Right now as is and sizing cases per die manufacture instructions. You will not get a third loading out of any brass fired from that rifle .

That’s just one guys opinion on the internet. It’s worth what you paid for it
:)
MG
 
More than one of those cases stretched 20-thou.
Something definitely not right between the brass & chamber.

This is where a Hornady Headspace (case dimension) comparator
would come in handy -- (before/after).

.
 
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I have a spare Vanguard bolt--but it has a magnum head. I still think your problem most likely lies with the bolt/receiver interface. I had a late-model vanguard--heavily painted/cerrokoated and pencil thin barrel--which shot like crap. I tried taking the barrel off--impossible. That said--the old Weatherby wood-stocked Vanguards I've shot have been great, even after many years of hard use. I would see if a substitute bolt could be found and tried to see if that makes any difference--otherwise I would move on and write it off as a learning experience, no use in throwing good money after bad (which I've done dozens of times and usually ended up with a losing outcome). If Weatherby's new model 307 rifles and actions take off I personally see no reason why the vanguards would live on--except maybe big magnums but then I would go to the Mark 5's in that case.
 
The Go No-Go and Field Gauges

When building a rifle,the Go must Go. The function and use of the No-Go gauge is to tell the gunsmith "The Go went,the No Go did not,your work is done"

The No-Go is NOT for pass/failing a used gun. The field gauge tells you its time to take it out of service.

"The bolt closed with a little effort" When using a plug gauge to check a diameter its held between the thumb and forefinger. "A little effort" is not used.

Your headspace gauged "good" . Your rifle is fine (probably)

Did that ammo come as a package deal with the gun?

In my limited experience with 30-06 factory loads they tend to size cases to the minimum. Likely for the semi-auto Riminton Deer Guns that sell small based dies.

Tolerances stack. You do have a chamber that leans toward "Max" so cartridges that lean toward "Min" stack a lot of stretch to the case.

I've had a similar problem with a 7mm Rem Mag. Rifle gauged good but the tolerances on belted cartridge headspace tend to stretch brass excessively...and cause stretch rings.

I learned to abandon the belt for headspacing ,fireform the brass and use the shoulder.

Advanced handloading techniques give us the option to do these workarounds.

But thats a lot to grasp for a self proclaimed newbie.

It can be helpful to know where you are before you route where you are going.

At risk of stirring up the crowd who hates the Wilson Bushing Guage, I'd buy one. Many folks hate what they do not understand.

It has a step ground into it that will show which side of the tolerance any ammo you have might be.

More use later, with the case in the bushing gauge you can use your calipers to measure over the case and bushing. That number from a fired case is useful.

When you reload,you can minimize the shoulder setback to reduce additional casestretch.
In a bolt gun,.002 is a good head clearance to shoot for.

The use of a feeler gauge between the shellholder and sizing die is one method for a repeatable die setup.

I don't like the idea of using 270 or 280 brass necked down a bit to create a trace of false shoulder that would hold you brass back against the bolt face...

it would work but getting in the habit of shooting ammo stamped "270" in a 25-06 invites a lesson in Murphy's Law. Bad idea.

But if it was me,I COULD buy virgin 25-06 brass, neck it up to .270 or 7mm,
then partially neck it down to get the same effect.

Or load some reduced loads with the bullets seated long enough to crush into the lands.

When we fireform virgin brass to fit the chamber, then have the means to control our resizing to minimum head clearance, we can handload around your case stretch problem.

The "Cream of Wheat" method of fireforming was mentioned. I have used it with good success to form wildcat cases. It works. Important!! You DO NOT use a bullet!! A small (approx 10% of a normal rifle powder maybe 5 gr?) charge of Bullseye is loaded in the case. You will have to experiment with how much Bullseye is needed.

Then the case is filled with Cream of Wheat. A pinch of cotton or toilet paper can be used for a "cork" Then set them in a loading block. Go some place you can shoot them,single load them without spilling and shoot them muzzle up.
It works but its pretty involved. Not my first choice!!

When 30-40 Krag and 303 British were readily available I was blowing them out to straight wall for Black Powder Cartridge 40-60 Maynard cases.

I made and chambered a chamber insert for a break action single shot shotgun as a fireforming tool. It worked great!! Then the .405 Win case was offered by Hornady. Hello,40-70 Sharps straight!

I don't recommend you pursue the Cream of Wheat method for your 25-06.
 
I thank you all for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated.

This experience has me feeling very much like I should stick the reloading basics for now. Went through the Lyman manual once now. Heading to the Lee manual next.

The ammo didn't come with the rifle. It still had the factory seal on it.

This situation has me a bit disconcerted considering I am a newbie reloader trying to do the normal things necessary to make a safe round and now have to deal with this additional obstacle that may make it more difficult for me. I guess I need to avoid bumping the shoulder excessively to not create even more headspace.

I'm going to be buying ammo from a different manufacturer and take a look at the brass that comes from that. Any recommendations as to what I might want to buy? Do some brands consistently offer better brass? Shorter Brass?
 
I'm the wrong guy to recommend a factory ammo. I just don't buy it. I buy virgin brass and shoot exclusively my handloads.

Winchester brass has served me well.
 
I guess I need to avoid bumping the shoulder excessively....
Click to expand...
Before you do anything else, invest in a Hornady Headspace Comparator set,
(I assume you already have some digital calipers)

Measure the headspace dimension on both the fired cases, and the unfired cartridges...
Let us know what you find.

(I have a feeling I already know)





Notwithstanding naysayers, there is nothing wrong with Hornady ammunition.
Barring something extraordinary, that ain't the problem.
Then we'll chat about options.
 
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